Nunge Garza Perfect Storm

Hawk5656 said:
Perimeter defense, replacing Jok's scoring, getting consistent production out of our SG are way bigger concerns for me then point guard depth. We have no idea how good of defenders Nunge and Garza will be. Cook was a 6'9 freak athlete and couldn't defend anyone as a freshman
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right, I saw your reply after I posted it. Sorry, my reading fail. Replacing Jok's scoring is so far down my list. Why? Because everyone on the floor can score that will be your leaders in minutes. Scoring for this team will not be an issue. I just have little doubt about it because I've watched Fran's teams the last 4 years. We've lost our leading scorer every year for the last 4 and replacing that production hasn't been an issue. Last year, I would say losing the bulk of that senior class hurt more than losing our leading scorer. I would say PG depth and D are my biggest concerns. I think D is something that none of these guys had to play in HS and it takes a year in the system and for some guys even more. I imagine that Nunge and Garza will struggle defensively this year, but they also aren't going to have the weight of it like our bigs did last year because of depth.
 
PCHawk said:
I wonder if the infatuation on this site over dribble penetration stems from how horrible of shooters Fran's first teams were. Remember how tgey bricked open look after open look? A guy who could get to the hoop seemed pretty important back then. Now all I want to see are 3s and layups/dunks.
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I believe this to a point. Marble was used in that role to dribble drive to an extent. He was another who was not a typical or pure point guard but they plugged him in that role, which just proves my point that times are changing. I don't think Lebron James is a "true" point guard either but he can do it all, and that is what works for their team.
 
InGoodCo said:
right, I saw your reply after I posted it. Sorry, my reading fail. Replacing Jok's scoring is so far down my list. Why? Because everyone on the floor can score that will be your leaders in minutes. Scoring for this team will not be an issue. I just have little doubt about it because I've watched Fran's teams the last 4 years. We've lost our leading scorer every year for the last 4 and replacing that production hasn't been an issue. Last year, I would say losing the bulk of that senior class hurt more than losing our leading scorer. I would say PG depth and D are my biggest concerns. I think D is something that none of these guys had to play in HS and it takes a year in the system and for some guys even more. I imagine that Nunge and Garza will struggle defensively this year, but they also aren't going to have the weight of it like our bigs did last year because of depth.
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We've always had a guy in the wings to take over and replace the leading scorer, I'm not sure we have that this year.
 
trj said:
I realize comparing the NBA to college basketball is an apple/orange comparison. Think about it, you name the 7 or 8 top point guards in the league and the only one that is a "true" point guard is Chris Paul. The game has just just changed.
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Yep, Lebron's not really a true point guard but plays that role for that team which works.
 
Casey388 said:
I was impressed with Garza tonight at the PTL game in Waterloo. He is much more toned than I was expecting. He physically looks like a guy who is going into his second or third year of college and every bit of 6'10. He was going up against UNI's Friedman and Kriener. There were times both Friedman and Kriener got the best of him but man he is not afraid to put his head down and take it to the hoop. He seems like he could end up being a more physical Ethan Happ. He also plays with emotion.

Nunge isn't as muscular, but he isn't small by any stretch of the imagination. He is the more skilled of the two and likes to play further from the hoop. The ceiling for him is unlimited. In pregame he hit two or three shots from NBA range. The future is definitely bright for these two.

The biggest surprise I had was with Kriener. He did everything well. He hit two or three 3's, was mixing it up inside with Garza but the thing that got me was his passing. He had two or three passes I couldn't believe that he was able to thread the needle on. He is going to be forcing the coaches to make some tough decisions.
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Remembering from last year, Kriener is also a "pick" machine and is constantly in motion looking to set picks. He's just a solid overall player. Would be a terrific 6th man on any other team, if not starting.
 
lightning1 said:
I'm not negative. 8 bigs, 3 wings and 2 guards is less than ideal. We had 3 players miss time last year to injury (4 if you count Jones). Injuries happen in basketball.
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Moss could play point if needed. Ellingson could play point if needed.

You're not going to change my mind.

Iowa doesn't have 8 bigs, in my eyes at least. They have 2 or 3 what I could call your "bigs" (on the block or center) and a whole slew of tall athletic guys who can interchange positions. Iowa has a lot of guys who can either play the 4 or 2,3 positions. It's obvious that's what Fran wanted to load his team with. Big athletic guys who can shoot and be interchangeable. This to spread the defense. I agree he probably got lucky getting both Garza and Nunge and couldn't pass that up so may have changed his plan a bit but worth it.

Oh, and I know your not negative. It's all good! :)
 
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Hawk5656 said:
Perimeter defense, replacing Jok's scoring, getting consistent production out of our SG are way bigger concerns for me then point guard depth. We have no idea how good of defenders Nunge and Garza will be. Cook was a 6'9 freak athlete and couldn't defend anyone as a freshman
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I'm not particularly worried about replacing Jok's scoring as I think they have enough offensive power. I would agree with your statement of perimeter defense. They were young last year so that is going to get better, but that is the difference between Iowa going to the NCAA last year and staying home, which they did as one of the last 4 out.

Jok score a lot but also gave up a lot on D so you really only have to find replacing 10-15 pts. It isn't like you can look and see Jok scoring 25pts a game and say we need to find 25pts to replace that.
 
Scoring won't be an issue. Jordan, Moss, Baer, Pemsl, and Cook all are capable of 20 Pt nights, and being the leading scorer on any given night.

I think the D will be significantly better, but inconsistent stil. The main contributors are still under classmen and that leads to inconsistent play especially on the defensive side of the ball.
 
deanvogs said:
Scoring won't be an issue. Jordan, Moss, Baer, Pemsl, and Cook all are capable of 20 Pt nights, and being the leading scorer on any given night.

I think the D will be significantly better, but inconsistent stil. The main contributors are still under classmen and that leads to inconsistent play especially on the defensive side of the ball.
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Cook and Pemsl were even dinged up last season. Heck, didn't Baer even battle some lower back issues or something at the end.

Iowa led the league in scoring last year. Problem is they also were last in defense last year.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
I'm not particularly worried about replacing Jok's scoring as I think they have enough offensive power. I would agree with your statement of perimeter defense. They were young last year so that is going to get better, but that is the difference between Iowa going to the NCAA last year and staying home, which they did as one of the last 4 out.

Jok score a lot but also gave up a lot on D so you really only have to find replacing 10-15 pts. It isn't like you can look and see Jok scoring 25pts a game and say we need to find 25pts to replace that.
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If not for a missed timeout, they would have made it with horrible defense last year.
 
Nunge reminds me of an Indiana High School player that propelled Indiana to national prominence a few years back in Cody Zeller then Jarred Uthoff, and although Jack didn't receive as much attention as Cody out of High School still made first team honors in Indiana and played in a higher class then Cody.....we may have recruited a sleeper that may surprise the college basketball world.....
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Moss could play point if needed. Ellingson could play point if needed.

You're not going to change my mind.

Iowa doesn't have 8 bigs, in my eyes at least. They have 2 or 3 what I could call your "bigs" (on the block or center) and a whole slew of tall athletic guys who can interchange positions. Iowa has a lot of guys who can either play the 4 or 2,3 positions. It's obvious that's what Fran wanted to load his team with. Big athletic guys who can shoot and be interchangeable. This to spread the defense. I agree he probably got lucky getting both Garza and Nunge and couldn't pass that up so may have changed his plan a bit but worth it.

Oh, and I know your not negative. It's all good! :)
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Sure. I could play PG if needed. We don't have 8 bigs? That'll be your little secret. Lots of guys that could play the 2? Moss, Ellingsen, Williams, Dailey and Bohannon. That may seem like a lot to you but 2 of those have to play the 1. And 1 of those will probably be playing the 3. If you think any of the 8 BIGS can play the 2, I'll list them and you tell me which ones. This should be good.
Kriener
Garza
Nunge
Cook
Pemsl
Uhl
Wagner
Baer
Which ones?
 
deanvogs said:
7 bigs, not 8. Cook, Pemsl, Uhl, Wagner, Nunge, Garza, Kreiner.

Baer is a wing player.
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Baer can't defend the 3 and his handles are not anywhere good enough to be an effective wing. He's a 3/4 tweener. I love his energy and his hustle but there's a reason he was the 6th man.
 
PCHawk said:
Doesn't that depend on who the 3 is he's trying to guard?
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Doesn't really matter. If he's on the perimeter, he'll end up on a guard or a wing that he can't defend, off of a ball screen switch, or a poor hedge hangs him out to dry. A good coach or a floor leader will recognize the situation and take advantage of it. I'm sure there are wings in D1 that Pemsl could guard on the perimeter. There just aren't very many.
 
lightning1 said:
Doesn't really matter. If he's on the perimeter, he'll end up on a guard or a wing that he can't defend, off of a ball screen switch, or a poor hedge hangs him out to dry. A good coach or a floor leader will recognize the situation and take advantage of it. I'm sure there are wings in D1 that Pemsl could guard on the perimeter. There just aren't very many.
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Without getting in a pissing match, lets just say I disagree. Baer can guard a wing player. You don't think he is a wing, I can respect that, just a difference of opinion here. Fran played this combo a ton last year: Jordan, (Jok, Moss or Ellingson) and Baer at the PG and wing spots, with Cook and either Pemsl/Wagner/Uhl.

Also I'm not sure why everyone thinks we need to go 5 deep for 2 wing spots? Moss, Dailey, Ellingson, and Baer is more than enough for 2 wing spots. If anything Fran needs to shorten the rotations. We don't need to give 5 wing players each 16 MPG.

Now if you are worried about the quality of said players to play the wing spot, that is completely different. Especially if you don't consider Baer a wing player.
 
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lightning1 said:
Doesn't really matter. If he's on the perimeter, he'll end up on a guard or a wing that he can't defend, off of a ball screen switch, or a poor hedge hangs him out to dry. A good coach or a floor leader will recognize the situation and take advantage of it. I'm sure there are wings in D1 that Pemsl could guard on the perimeter. There just aren't very many.[/QUOTE

Man, you need to step away from the cliff dude.

This season you can watch Iowa games and beeotch & complain. I'll watch to enjoy them and their progression and improvement as players
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IllQChawk said:
Nunge reminds me of an Indiana High School player that propelled Indiana to national prominence a few years back in Cody Zeller then Jarred Uthoff, and although Jack didn't receive as much attention as Cody out of High School still made first team honors in Indiana and played in a higher class then Cody.....we may have recruited a sleeper that may surprise the college basketball world.....
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Zeller was a 5 star recruit and a McDonald's All American.
 
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