Wagner Leaves To Play Football

[NikeHawk21]

I totally agree he's gotta be frustrated with Moss. I mean dude he's the most Jekle and Hyde type of player we've ever had. The fact he's capable of putting up 19 pts in 2 mins or whatever the heck he did once and then lay eggs of games where he only puts up 5 or 6 and be invisible out there is just nuts. If If If Weiskamp is good or better than advertised I sure hope he's taking some of Moss's mins. But due to how the roster is Moss is still going to play a lot.
Pemsl I'm afraid I disagree with you on. I think he is who he is. Skill wise he's just going to be the occasionally crafty lefty around the rim. But that's it. I don't see him averaging 10 pts or 6 plus boards a game I just don't. He isn't good enough to warrant the mins to do it.

Funny thing is about Pem is he averaged 9/5 his freshman year in less than 20 minutes. He was allowed to operate on the low block because him and Cook were the only posts. He’s pretty good down there, the problem was this year he got pushed further away from the basket due to Garza and the results weren’t pretty.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Funny thing is about Pem is he averaged 9/5 his freshman year in less than 20 minutes. He was allowed to operate on the low block because him and Cook were the only posts. He’s pretty good down there, the problem was this year he got pushed further away from the basket due to Garza and the results weren’t pretty.

And I think some of his success his freshman year was lack of scouting. First year out there nobody was saying about him "oh stop him from going left" And as you said Garza being added to he mix limited his touches immensely. Well Garza not only isn't going anywhere but Nunge I sure hope isn't either and that combination along with Cook hopefully coming back just doesn't bode well for Pemsls role getting larger...

 

[PCHawk]

I mean Ahmad Wagner played in 30 if our 33 games, and I think he was injured for the others. If you’re getting minutes in every game you’re not really benched. Fran couldn’t decide, so he tried to play everyone, and it hurt us.

He would play like 2 minutes in the first half and not even see the second half. Good enough to show he played in 30 of 33 games, but was it really enough to hurt us?

 

[PCHawk]

I totally agree he's gotta be frustrated with Moss. I mean dude he's the most Jekle and Hyde type of player we've ever had. The fact he's capable of putting up 19 pts in 2 mins or whatever the heck he did once and then lay eggs of games where he only puts up 5 or 6 and be invisible out there is just nuts. If If If Weiskamp is good or better than advertised I sure hope he's taking some of Moss's mins. But due to how the roster is Moss is still going to play a lot.
Pemsl I'm afraid I disagree with you on. I think he is who he is. Skill wise he's just going to be the occasionally crafty lefty around the rim. But that's it. I don't see him averaging 10 pts or 6 plus boards a game I just don't. He isn't good enough to warrant the mins to do it.

Wieskamp will get 25+ per game at the 2 and 3. Moss and Baer will fight for the remaining minutes.

What I'm saying about Pemsl is he's really really good at going left and really really bad at going right. That makes for a guy who's easy to stop. But it also makes for a guy who is really hard to stop if he becomes average at going right. If they completely take away left, he can score wide open to the right. If they play him straight up, he can still score going left. They will have to find the exact right combo of taking away left, without completely giving him right.

 

[PCHawk]

And I think some of his success his freshman year was lack of scouting. First year out there nobody was saying about him "oh stop him from going left" And as you said Garza being added to he mix limited his touches immensely. Well Garza not only isn't going anywhere but Nunge I sure hope isn't either and that combination along with Cook hopefully coming back just doesn't bode well for Pemsls role getting larger...

They played him way different this year compared to last year. I'm not sure I've ever seen a post defender cheat to one side as bad as they did with him. Hopefully it was enough to really get him working on going right. Imagine if he got good at going right, then sand bagged it until we really needed a bucket. That would be awesome.

 

[PCHawk]

I also agree that what I'm saying about Pemsl is probably a moot point if Cook comes back. He just won't get that many minutes. Unless of course he improves a ton.

 

[NikeHawk21]

He would play like 2 minutes in the first half and not even see the second half. Good enough to show he played in 30 of 33 games, but was it really enough to hurt us?

Ellingson and Wagner combined for over 13 minutes a game in conference play. Give those minutes to a Dailey or Nunge, and yes I do think it makes a real difference with this team.

 

[PCHawk]

Ellingson and Wagner combined for over 13 minutes a game in conference play. Give those minutes to a Dailey or Nunge, and yes I do think it makes a real difference with this team.

Do the math for the last half of conference play and it will really shut me up. Although 13 minutes out of 200 isn't that much at all.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Do the math for the last half of conference play and it will really shut me up. Although 13 minutes out of 200 isn't that much at all.

It’s hard because Wagner and Ellingson both got hurt. I’m sure it went down some. Let’s say 10.

10 minutes or so doesn’t seem like a lot out of 200, but when it’s the difference between Dailey and Nunge getting 20 minutes a night instead of 13 and 17 respectively it can make a big difference. I’m a firm believer in guys needing to get in a rhythm, it’s hard to do that at anything under 20 minutes a night.

Oh well that’s hardly my only complaint with Fran’s rotation this year.

 

[PCHawk]

It’s hard because Wagner and Ellingson both got hurt. I’m sure it went down some. Let’s say 10.

10 minutes or so doesn’t seem like a lot out of 200, but when it’s the difference between Dailey and Nunge getting 20 minutes a night instead of 13 and 17 respectively it can make a big difference. I’m a firm believer in guys needing to get in a rhythm, it’s hard to do that at anything under 20 minutes a night.

Oh well that’s hardly my only complaint with Fran’s rotation this year.

But what if Wagner and Ellingson were getting their minutes on nights where Nunge and Dailey were terrible? Do you give Nunge 5-10 extra minutes on a night he clearly doesn't have it? Or do you give them to Wagner? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

They played him way different this year compared to last year. I'm not sure I've ever seen a post defender cheat to one side as bad as they did with him. Hopefully it was enough to really get him working on going right. Imagine if he got good at going right, then sand bagged it until we really needed a bucket. That would be awesome.

Not holding my breath on it..

 

[NikeHawk21]

But what if Wagner and Ellingson were getting their minutes on nights where Nunge and Dailey were terrible? Do you give Nunge 5-10 extra minutes on a night he clearly doesn't have it? Or do you give them to Wagner? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.

A coaches job is to decide who his best players are and play those guys. Some nights they will be off, but in the long run they will benefit from those minutes. Every other coach in the country does this, it’s not really rocket science. Do the scholarship backups at Duke and North Carolina not have skills and do the guys in front of them not have off nights?

 

[PCHawk]

You don't think a talented freshman at another school might get 20 minutes one game, then another game only get 10 because he's struggling so they put in the experienced veteran? Other teams don't play the hot hand? Give a guy 25 minutes who normally only gets 15, because he's on fire? You sound like other teams have exact, set in stone rotations where every player plays the exact same minutes at the exact same times of the game, every game. Maybe it is like that. I don't really pay enough attention to other team's rotations to know for sure.

 

[PCHawk]

Garza started playing a lot, then fell apart for quite awhile. Fran sat him more and took him out of the starting lineup. It worked out well because he killed it later in the year. I get the arguement that you need to let players play through mistakes. But do you not get the arguement that playing them a ton while they are playing terrible can not only hurt the team, but it can destroy a player's confidence?

Most people here were kiling Fran for playing Pemsl so much when he was struggling so bad. But by your logic, Fran did the right thing because he gave Pemsl his role and stuck with it no matter how bad he struggled. I'm a fan of changing a player's role depending on how that player is playing.

 

[trj]

I totally agree he's gotta be frustrated with Moss. I mean dude he's the most Jekle and Hyde type of player we've ever had. The fact he's capable of putting up 19 pts in 2 mins or whatever the heck he did once and then lay eggs of games where he only puts up 5 or 6 and be invisible out there is just nuts. If If If Weiskamp is good or better than advertised I sure hope he's taking some of Moss's mins. But due to how the roster is Moss is still going to play a lot.
Pemsl I'm afraid I disagree with you on. I think he is who he is. Skill wise he's just going to be the occasionally crafty lefty around the rim. But that's it. I don't see him averaging 10 pts or 6 plus boards a game I just don't. He isn't good enough to warrant the mins to do it.

Moss is the biggest enigma to me. I think he is a role player, but you see something every now and then and you talk yourself into thinking something is there, he is a late bloomer.

Likely he is the former, let’s hope he’s the latter.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Moss is the biggest enigma to me. I think he is a role player, but you see something every now and then and you talk yourself into thinking something is there, he is a late bloomer.

Likely he is the former, let’s hope he’s the latter.

You see and that's where I need to check myself with him too and that is the kid was a sophomore. Compare what his stats are to Marbles at the same time and they are pretty darn close. Both avg 11 pts a game are within a tick of averaging the same FG %. Marble I think had about 1 more assist and rebound per game on him but that's it. Moss is way better at shooting free throws 88% to 72%. You can say Marbles D is leaps and bounds better no debating that. But as far as offense goes Moss to me has some big time potential to be realized yet. I guess that's what's so frustrating is my lack of patience... Not every player is a finished product at 19/20 yrs old.. (none are)

 

[MelroseHawkins]

You don't think a talented freshman at another school might get 20 minutes one game, then another game only get 10 because he's struggling so they put in the experienced veteran? Other teams don't play the hot hand? Give a guy 25 minutes who normally only gets 15, because he's on fire? You sound like other teams have exact, set in stone rotations where every player plays the exact same minutes at the exact same times of the game, every game. Maybe it is like that. I don't really pay enough attention to other team's rotations to know for sure.

You go with your regular rotation until you notice someone is struggling or somebody else is hot and adjust. The player that is struggling or not hot will lose minutes that game to the player that seems to be hot that game. That is the way it should work.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Moss is the biggest enigma to me. I think he is a role player, but you see something every now and then and you talk yourself into thinking something is there, he is a late bloomer.

Likely he is the former, let’s hope he’s the latter.

Can't agree more.

 

[BigD]

Been busy lately and just checked in and see two players leaving. I didnt want to call players out but in a previous post I mentioned the team would be served if when Dom left if also a forward and guard left with him. Well, now I can admit that they all three are moving on. I wish all three of them the best in life, but none of them were quality B1G players. Maybe great persons but not B1G conference level players.

Now we will see what Fran does with the openings. I hope I don’t end up being one of those guys with regret and ends up saying “be careful what you wish for”

I hope Fran also uses the scholly’s to bring in some help at the point guard position.

Regardless of whether one or both of his boys deserve the scholly I would find it unethical for Fran to give one to either of his sons. I have put two kids through college and I make a hell of a lot less than Fran does. Surely there is a young player out there whose parents can’t afford to put their child through college who can use the scholarship and at the same time strengthen this team. I am not saying his sons don’t deserve it, but they sure as hell don’t need it. I know some on here may not agree but they are probably wrong about a lot of other things too.

 

[Fryowa]

Been busy lately and just checked in and see two players leaving. I didnt want to call players out but in a previous post I mentioned the team would be served if when Dom left if also a forward and guard left with him. Well, now I can admit that they all three are moving on. I wish all three of them the best in life, but none of them were quality B1G players. Maybe great persons but not B1G conference level players.

Now we will see what Fran does with the openings. I hope I don’t end up being one of those guys with regret and ends up saying “be careful what you wish for”

I hope Fran also uses the scholly’s to bring in some help at the point guard position.

Regardless of whether one or both of his boys deserve the scholly I would find it unethical for Fran to give one to either of his sons. I have put two kids through college and I make a hell of a lot less than Fran does. Surely there is a young player out there whose parents can’t afford to put their child through college who can use the scholarship and at the same time strengthen this team. I am not saying his sons don’t deserve it, but they sure as hell don’t need it. I know some on here may not agree but they are probably wrong about a lot of other things too.

It would be bad business for Fran to waste a scholarship on one of his kids. Especially after winning 4 games. He’d be doing himself a huge favor by leaving those two open (and probably more by the time this is over).