Bombshell Alford Article by Harty

[HobbieHawk]

Is there any evidence that Alford personally had knowledge of this situation?

Enough.

Alford was the MFIC - it was his responsibility.
Do you understand what RESPONSIBLE means?
That means even if he did not have direct knowledge of the actions of his subordinates he is still culpable.

Culpable. Accountable - Alford is to blame for the failings of his underlings.

So you lose trying to obfuscate. If he had direct knowledge he is guilty. If he did not have direct knowledge he is guilty.
It speaks about you to try to exonerate such a slimy turd.

 

[Foval21]

He will never admit mistake, just look at how he defended his player and subsequently, has the player ever admitted that he was wrong? He got essentially no punishment out of the deal, so why admit mistake, everyone got basically what they wanted, except for the victim, if it were a 15 yr old girl it would have been different, unfortunately.

I know I am just upset at people saying they need proof...this is at least a third incident. And it isn't about proof. Obviously there was a pattern and they need to admit it was handled incorrectly. That is it. We can't change what happened but we can admit that things were done wrong. That is all I think needs to be done and the Alford apologists need to understand that. Again I know it won't happen but people need to stop defending how Alford and the university handled these situations. I am sure at some point mike rice will admit he screwed up...yet Alford doesn't have to according to some people. That is hypocrisy.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Enough.

Alford was the MFIC - it was his responsibility.
Do you understand what RESPONSIBLE means?
That means even if he did not have direct knowledge of the actions of his subordinates he is still culpable.

Culpable. Accountable - Alford is to blame for the failings of his underlings.

So you lose trying to obfuscate. If he had direct knowledge he is guilty. If he did not have direct knowledge he is guilty.
It speaks about you to try to exonerate such a slimy turd.

I take it you have never supervised anyone.

There is a helluva lot of difference between an underling doing something they aren't supposed to do and the supervisor actively covering up a possible attempted rape. The latter would be a bombshell. At best, based on the facts presented, one could infer that perhaps Coach Alford was negligent in hiring Lansing or negligent in providing him adequate training, but those are hardly "bombshells." Subordinates do idiotic things outside of the scope of their authority all the time. And taking it up the chain, these guys all reported to Bowlsby. If a complaint regarding a possible attempted rape came into the SID and it didn't get funneled to Bowlsby, he failed miserably at having a reporting system. A coach is there to coach. An AD is there to have systems and ensure compliance and all kinds of administrative stuff like that. It's amazing how quickly the systemic failures at Penn State have fled the consciousness of Butthurt HawkFan who still has an axe to grind with Coach Alford.

Your butt is just so hurt over Alford. He is richer than you. He is more popular than you. His wife is hotter than yours. He has a better job than you. His hair is better than yours. I could go on and on, but your (and much of the rest of the fan bases') hatred for Alford has blinded you to any degree of objectivity on any matter relating to Alford. It's sad.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I know I am just upset at people saying they need proof...this is at least a third incident. And it isn't about proof. Obviously there was a pattern and they need to admit it was handled incorrectly. That is it. We can't change what happened but we can admit that things were done wrong. That is all I think needs to be done and the Alford apologists need to understand that. Again I know it won't happen but people need to stop defending how Alford and the university handled these situations. I am sure at some point mike rice will admit he screwed up...yet Alford doesn't have to according to some people. That is hypocrisy.

The University has fixed its processes. The pendulum has swung the other way.

 

[dmShortSaledude]

Bowlsby was the man in charge. He should have ended it right away & made PP be gone.

 

[Billso]

I take it you have never supervised anyone.

There is a helluva lot of difference between an underling doing something they aren't supposed to do and the supervisor actively covering up a possible attempted rape. The latter would be a bombshell. At best, based on the facts presented, one could infer that perhaps Coach Alford was negligent in hiring Lansing or negligent in providing him adequate training, but those are hardly "bombshells." Subordinates do idiotic things outside of the scope of their authority all the time. And taking it up the chain, these guys all reported to Bowlsby. If a complaint regarding a possible attempted rape came into the SID and it didn't get funneled to Bowlsby, he failed miserably at having a reporting system. A coach is there to coach. An AD is there to have systems and ensure compliance and all kinds of administrative stuff like that. It's amazing how quickly the systemic failures at Penn State have fled the consciousness of Butthurt HawkFan who still has an axe to grind with Coach Alford.

"A coach is there to coach. An AD is there to have systems and ensure compliance... That's exactly right. But because coaches are coaches, and SIDs are SIDS, we've seen time and again their frequently cluelessness about the most basic HR issues we take for granted as supervisors in the real world. It would not surprise me (given the documented procedural incompetence at Iowa in this era, well beyond the PP matter) if the SID handed the complaint straight off to Lansing, not wanting to bother Alford - or wanting to give Alford plausible deniability. It would also not surprise me if Lansing made a point of telling Alford verbally, leaving no written trail, because one thing coaches ARE getting hip to is the danger of FOIA requests.

You're also over-protesting in demanding proof of specific conversations here, given we don't have ANYTHING right now beyond Harty's article. Applying Occam's Razor, I find it nearly impossible to believe Lansing wouldn't have told Alford about an incident like this. Of course, I can't prove that, anymore than I can "prove" the incident even happened.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Refresh my memory again, when was PP at Iowa?

Was there or was there not a lot of players getting in trouble around the same time in the football program and not a whole lot was done until law enforcement was involved?

The difference is that Ferentz didn't stand up and call accusers liars when Alford did. I honestly don't care that Harty hasn't produced a letter and quite frankly he doesn't need to. The facts are that once PP was accused he was backed by the Basketball Program with Alford being the talking head and he was not punished by the University. From what I gather from the article is this event took place before PP raped the one girl and subsequently was defended by Alford.

This is not an attempt to kick someone while he is good for the kicking, it is just an example of something that for all we know, given PP's history, that could have happened more. The other thing to consider here is that Harty waiting for quite a long time to tell this story, probably because his niece didn't want this story told. What is funny is that PP has been proven guilty, but yet people want to discredit Harty because "Alford didn't know." Here is the thing, this is one of those situations that people would have to take seriously, but it seems that it wasn't, but the culture at the University at the time was, we don't act unless Police were involved.

So could Alford not have know, yes because obviously the Athletic Department didn't take things seriously until PP was accused of rape. The letter from Lansing is another thing, why should he have to produce it? There are always situations that are ignored, but in hindsight become clear that something bigger was going on. This is not someone being vindictive, it is simply someone telling a story of an event that happened to a family member.

Harty's story doesn't hold water. I'm not trying to discredit it so much as what he wrote as far as his story doesn't add up. His timeline is beyond vague. The actions he took on behalf of his family don't make any common sense unless he went to the Mike McQueary school of reporting crimes. I mean if your wanting some kind of justice for what happened you don't go to the Athletic department you just don't. Period. Because what's the answer that they are going to give you that would make you satisfied? There wouldn't be one. And as far as Alford goes with there being no paper trail or some kind of proof that Alford was informed of this he will play the plausible deniability card all day long. I'm not saying he didn't know I'm just sayin that without more then Harty is reporting that's the end of the road. If the niece didn't want to pursue getting Pierce in trouble then ok fine. Why go to the Athletic department at all? And why do I feel that the letter is important? Well because it would be a dated hard copy of proof that Lansing acknowledged the complaint. Without it you have just a story. I could write that my sisters best friends cousin had that happen to her too and go on with made up details the same way. Harty didn't list a date that this took place just a vague timeline. Harty himself says there is a letter so what happened to it?

 

[okeefe4prez]

"A coach is there to coach. An AD is there to have systems and ensure compliance... That's exactly right. But because coaches are coaches, and SIDs are SIDS, we've seen time and again their frequently cluelessness about the most basic HR issues we take for granted as supervisors in the real world. It would not surprise me (given the documented procedural incompetence at Iowa in this era, well beyond the PP matter) if the SID handed the complaint straight off to Lansing, not wanting to bother Alford - or wanting to give Alford plausible deniability. It would also not surprise me if Lansing made a point of telling Alford verbally, leaving no written trail, because one thing coaches ARE getting hip to is the danger of FOIA requests.

You're also over-protesting in demanding proof of specific conversations here, given we don't have ANYTHING right now beyond Harty's article. Applying Occam's Razor, I find it nearly impossible to believe Lansing wouldn't have told Alford about an incident like this. Of course, I can't prove that, anymore than I can "prove" the incident even happened.

You ever played the game called "telephone?" If the message got to Alford, it seems like it would have went from niece, to Harty, to at least one person in SID (maybe more, who knows) and then to Lansing before it would have gotten to Coach Alford. So even if Lansing told him, who knows what the message was?

 

[okeefe4prez]

Harty's story doesn't hold water. I'm not trying to discredit it so much as what he wrote as far as his story doesn't add up. His timeline is beyond vague. The actions he took on behalf of his family don't make any common sense unless he went to the Mike McQueary school of reporting crimes. I mean if your wanting some kind of justice for what happened you don't go to the Athletic department you just don't. Period. Because what's the answer that they are going to give you that would make you satisfied? There wouldn't be one. If the niece didn't want to pursue getting Pierce in trouble then ok fine. Why go to the Athletic department at all? And why do I feel that the letter is important? Well because it would be a dated hard copy of proof that Lansing acknowledged the complaint. Without it you have just a story. I could write that my sisters best friends cousin had that happen to her too and go on with made up details the same way. Harty didn't list a date that this took place just a vague timeline. Harty himself says there is a letter so what happened to it?

You ever seen Inspector Gadget? Perhaps it self destructed, brah.

 

[jocohawk]

Harty: Difficult memories resurface after Alford comments | Hawk Central

This says it all. I know Harty takes a ton of **** but props to him for bringing this story to light.

Definitely taught me to keep my mouth shut, on initial opinions and reactions as it turned out there was a pattern of behavior displayed by Pierce.

Hopefully everyone has learned things from the situation.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

You ever seen Inspector Gadget? Perhaps it self destructed, brah.

I think the last time I used the word "brah" in a sentence was also the last time I saw Inspector Gadget.

 

[CAARHawk]

"Greg, can you respond so that I can retain plausible deniability in the eyes of OKFP?"

"Crap PP actually assaulted a third girl? Lansing, you are fired!"

 

[BillikenHawkeye]

Come 'on folks There is no possible way that Greg Lansing sends a letter such as under these circumstances this to someone like Pat Harty without Alford having knowlege of the situation. None whatsoever, unless he told his staff to keep him ignorant, which would be just as bad.

They kept this quiet because the niece didnt want the publicity or to have her credibility publically questioned in places like this. For someone who is only 18,and want physically harmed, its not hard to see why she would want this kept quiet.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Come 'on folks There is no possible way that Greg Lansing sends a letter such as under these circumstances this to someone like Pat Harty without Alford having knowlege of the situation. None whatsoever, unless he told his staff to keep him ignorant, which would be just as bad.

They kept this quiet because the niece didnt want the publicity or to have her credibility publically questioned in places like this. For someone who is only 18,and want physically harmed, its not hard to see why she would want this kept quiet.

Why the heck would anyone send a letter, that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[CAARHawk]

Why the heck would anyone send a letter, that makes absolutely no sense.

It basically acts the same as a press release. That is what you do when you want to send a message to the press, but you don't want to leave yourself open for an interview. Seeing that Harty didn't "press" it, I would say it worked.

 

[BillikenHawkeye]

I don't know why did Richard Nixon record every conversation? People don't always do the most rational things. They probably issued a letter because they didn't want to talk on the phone, wanted the situation to go away since there was no physical harm.

I think Alford had Lansing write the letter because he was trying to protect himself so he could claim he didn't know anything about it.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

I am amazed at the lengths some people will go to to defend an arrogant a$$ like Alford. Right... the SID went to Greg Lansing to have him send a letter to Harty, bypassing the head coach. Alford was completely unaware. Right... Alford was shocked, just shocked that his star player would do such a thing. After all, innocent until proven guily, right? Sheesh!

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Come 'on folks There is no possible way that Greg Lansing sends a letter such as under these circumstances this to someone like Pat Harty without Alford having knowlege of the situation. None whatsoever, unless he told his staff to keep him ignorant, which would be just as bad.

They kept this quiet because the niece didnt want the publicity or to have her credibility publically questioned in places like this. For someone who is only 18,and want physically harmed, its not hard to see why she would want this kept quiet.

The keeping it "quiet" part I understand up to the point of why bother getting ahold of the athletic department to complain at all then? What kind of a response was the family hoping to receive? They got a letter from Lansing (and yes I agree that no way Lansing would write this letter without Alford knowing about the situation however because of that Alford would claim he didn't if asked.) that barely acknowledged the incident. Harty of all people who even at that time self admitedly wasn't a partial reporter towards Alford would have known how taking a complaint like that to the athletic department would turn out. He should have known that they'd at least attempt to sweep it under the rug. And since they chose not to go to the police that's what happened.

 

[Section136]

Refresh my memory again, when was PP at Iowa?

Was there or was there not a lot of players getting in trouble around the same time in the football program and not a whole lot was done until law enforcement was involved?
.

Pierce was a freshman at Iowa during the 2001-2002 season. He redshirted during the 2002-2003 season and was kicked off the team halfway throuh he 2004-2005 season.

Dominique Douglass and the City Boyz were freshmen during the fall of 2006. He played one year and then the credit card scandal went down and the Everson/Satterfield incident happened in the fall of 2007.

 

[tm3308]

The keeping it "quiet" part I understand up to the point of why bother getting ahold of the athletic department to complain at all then? What kind of a response was the family hoping to receive? They got a letter from Lansing (and yes I agree that no way Lansing would write this letter without Alford knowing about the situation however because of that Alford would claim he didn't if asked.) that barely acknowledged the incident. Harty of all people who even at that time self admitedly wasn't a partial reporter towards Alford would have known how taking a complaint like that to the athletic department would turn out. He should have known that they'd at least attempt to sweep it under the rug. And since they chose not to go to the police that's what happened.

Harty addressed that in the story. He did it to keep his brother from coming to town and confronting Pierce himself. The niece then decided to just let it go and be a normal student, rather than risk becoming a pariah before her first Halloween on campus.