When Fran said let's get mad again...

[CptPuertoRico]

really, you think that a ton of bigtime schools are drooling over the thought of giving up 2 years of a scholarship for 1 year of play from mediocre players who got kicked off their team?

There are some pluses to having a shortened bench. Once being that t alleviates some PT issues. The NCAA has been averaging over 400 transfers per year, many of which for play time reasons. If you shorten your bench with a couple of guys having to sit out a year, it lessens the amount of disgruntled guys seeing spot minutes in blow outs. Of course that makes you susceptible to injuries, but to each their own I guess.

Saying guys like Allen, Lucious and Clyburn are mediocre isn't being overly objective. I don't know about you, but for this upcoming season I'd gladly trade Cartwright, Gatens and Marble for that threesome.

 

[9YRPLAN]

You really show your ignorance when you refer to players like White, Allen, Babb and Clyburn as mediocre. What does that make Brommer, Gatens, Cartwright, May and Marble? Do you think Hubburd, who arguably excited fans the most our of our recruits, is actually better than any one of these? Do you think anyone on our roster with exception of Basabe is better than these three? If you think Iowa State doesn't immediately have a better roster than us because of these additions you need to learn the game.

Clyburn averaged 17 pts per game for Utah and shot 40% for 3
Royce White was considered a legit NBA prospect as a HS senior
Allen was a lockdown defender, avg. 8 pts while shooting 40% for 3
Babb avg. 9 pts while shooting 37% for 3

I would gladly give up scholarships for any and all of these players to add to our roster. You would be an idiot not to take these players if you are a developing program.

first off, i know iowa sucks. i know this. i am talking about ISU, not iowa. if you measure success by comparing yourselves to iowa then 1) god bless you and 2) you suck.

second, you countered my comment about troubled players by providing examples of kids that didnt get into trouble. but anyways, clyburn is a good player that has no trouble. babb is average at BEST and has had no trouble. Booker is completely terrible and had no trouble. i know this because i have watched dozens of these kids games over three years.

the other three have all had serious legal issues and/or were kicked off their team. White had some suitors because of his talent despite a ten-cent brain...but he may be one and done. lucious and allen are mediocre players who had very, very few options as far as where to finish their careers.

 

[Wassabbe]

first off, i know iowa sucks. i know this. i am talking about ISU, not iowa. if you measure success by comparing yourselves to iowa then 1) god bless you and 2) you suck.

second, you countered my comment about troubled players by providing examples of kids that didnt get into trouble. but anyways, clyburn is a good player that has no trouble. babb is average at BEST and has had no trouble. Booker is completely terrible and had no trouble. i know this because i have watched dozens of these kids games over three years.

the other three have all had serious legal issues and/or were kicked off their team. White had some suitors because of his talent despite a ten-cent brain...but he may be one and done. lucious and allen are mediocre players who had very, very few options as far as where to finish their careers.

Babb would be our best player this year. He is a 6'5 strong SG that averaged double digit points in Big 10 play as a soph. If he was still at Penn State he would be their best player and they would look at him to score 15+ a game.

I don't know much on Booker. Never watched him. He looks the part for sure

 

[9YRPLAN]

booker is completely terrible.

LMAO at babb being iowas best player, regardless of how bad iowa is. gatens, basabe, and cartwright are all better players.

 

[Wassabbe]

booker is completely terrible.

LMAO at babb being iowas best player, regardless of how bad iowa is. gatens, basabe, and cartwright are all better players.

Cartwright? Are you serious? Babb's bigger, better shooter, better defender, etc. He put up better #'s as a soph. Am I the only Hawkeye fan that realizes that Cartwright is below average?

 

[9YRPLAN]

i have been super critical of cartwright...whats your point? hes still better than babb, which was my point.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Babb would be our best player this year. He is a 6'5 strong SG that averaged double digit points in Big 10 play as a soph. If he was still at Penn State he would be their best player and they would look at him to score 15+ a game.

I don't know much on Booker. Never watched him. He looks the part for sure

Babb played on a terrible 3-13 Penn St team, somebody was going to have to score for Penn St. Usual teams let up when they're up by 20, stop acting like Babb was a beast in the B10, he shot less than 40% from the field. He averaged 1.20 points per shot, Gatens averaged 1.22 per shot last year. They are basically the same player.

 

[smoot27]

i have been super critical of cartwright...whats your point? hes still better than babb, which was my point.

You've changed the scope of your argument a half dozen times. First he can't recruit, then you only meant HS players, then you only meant the ones that didn't get in trouble.

Cartwright is horrible. At least Babb offers a three point shooter. Cartwright can't shoot and turns the ball over at an excessive rate. Cartwright is also our 2nd or 3rd best overall player. Babb might be their 4th or 5th best transfer.

Secondly, let's look at at how foolish your argument is. You say not to compare ISU to a horrible Iowa team, yet that's the whole point of the thread. We are comparing how Hoiberg is finding ways to bring in more talent to a similar setting as Iowa than what Fran has been able to accomplish thus far.

You speculate that White will only be a one year player as a way to scoff at a great addition in talent. Gosh, I suppose Kentucky should have never recruited John Wall.

The bottom line is, you can't possibly argue that we are making more progress than Hoiberg in terms of adding talent and having a better roster next year without looking like a complete moron.

 

[smoot27]

lucious and allen are mediocre players who had very, very few options as far as where to finish their careers.

Please provide a link to validate such a claim....


Mine states otherwise
Chris Allen's phone has been 'blowing up' - College Basketball Nation Blog - ESPN

 

[smoot27]

He averaged 1.20 points per shot, Gatens averaged 1.22 per shot last year. .

Harrison Barnes: 1.17 PPS
Brandon Knight: 1.28
Imam Schumpert: 1.23
Chris Singleton: 1.28
Jordan Hamilton: 1.22
Marshon Brooks didn't exceed 1.3 until as a senior

What's your point?

 

[Cyclones17]

Harrison Barnes: 1.17 PPS
Brandon Knight: 1.28
Imam Schumpert: 1.23
Chris Singleton: 1.28
Jordan Hamilton: 1.22
Marshon Brooks didn't exceed 1.3 until as a senior

What's your point?

Mike doesn't have a point. He spouts stuff out that isn't true and acts like he knows what he is talking about when he doesn't

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Harrison Barnes: 1.17 PPS
Brandon Knight: 1.28
Imam Schumpert: 1.23
Chris Singleton: 1.28
Jordan Hamilton: 1.22
Marshon Brooks didn't exceed 1.3 until as a senior

What's your point?

That Babb and Gatens put up very similar numbers on bad teams, and Babb and Gatens are very similiar players.

And yeah all those guys you listed are inefficient scorers too, Barnes had an absolutely terrible first third of the season and Marshon Brooks would have never gotten drafted if he didn't become a much better scorer this year.

What's your point?

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Mike doesn't have a point. He spouts stuff out that isn't true and acts like he knows what he is talking about when he doesn't

What have I said that's not true? Just because you don't like the fact that your hero Chris Allen was nothing more than a secondary option on those MSU final four teams doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[bbruns]

You've changed the scope of your argument a half dozen times. First he can't recruit, then you only meant HS players, then you only meant the ones that didn't get in trouble.

Cartwright is horrible. At least Babb offers a three point shooter. Cartwright can't shoot and turns the ball over at an excessive rate. Cartwright is also our 2nd or 3rd best overall player. Babb might be their 4th or 5th best transfer.

Secondly, let's look at at how foolish your argument is. You say not to compare ISU to a horrible Iowa team, yet that's the whole point of the thread. We are comparing how Hoiberg is finding ways to bring in more talent to a similar setting as Iowa than what Fran has been able to accomplish thus far.

You speculate that White will only be a one year player as a way to scoff at a great addition in talent. Gosh, I suppose Kentucky should have never recruited John Wall.

The bottom line is, you can't possibly argue that we are making more progress than Hoiberg in terms of adding talent and having a better roster next year without looking like a complete moron.

you do agree that your evaluations of our players are based on last years performances...will Cartwright or Marble (for example) play at the same level this year? you dont know - neither do I or anyone..we shall see. You also would agree that your evaluations of Ogelsby,White,Olaseni are not based on anything other than HS & AAU...your player opinions are based on the past...which is OK...I think we will see a remarkable improvement from our returning players...but that's just my opinion..

as far as ISU -other than the one game we play against..I could care less.

 

[9YRPLAN]

You've changed the scope of your argument a half dozen times. First he can't recruit, then you only meant HS players, then you only meant the ones that didn't get in trouble.

Cartwright is horrible. At least Babb offers a three point shooter. Cartwright can't shoot and turns the ball over at an excessive rate. Cartwright is also our 2nd or 3rd best overall player. Babb might be their 4th or 5th best transfer.

Secondly, let's look at at how foolish your argument is. You say not to compare ISU to a horrible Iowa team, yet that's the whole point of the thread. We are comparing how Hoiberg is finding ways to bring in more talent to a similar setting as Iowa than what Fran has been able to accomplish thus far.

You speculate that White will only be a one year player as a way to scoff at a great addition in talent. Gosh, I suppose Kentucky should have never recruited John Wall.

The bottom line is, you can't possibly argue that we are making more progress than Hoiberg in terms of adding talent and having a better roster next year without looking like a complete moron.

you are creating arguments out of thin air jerkoff. my only argument was that hoiberg's true recruiting (jucos and high school) has been vastly overrated. you are the one who keeps bringing up all this other junk which i keep having to address.

 

[CAARHawk]

Actually, you don't have to address any of it.

 

[9YRPLAN]

Actually, you don't have to address any of it.

oh yeah well...good point

 

[Benddontbreak]

You've changed the scope of your argument a half dozen times. First he can't recruit, then you only meant HS players, then you only meant the ones that didn't get in trouble.

Cartwright is horrible. At least Babb offers a three point shooter. Cartwright can't shoot and turns the ball over at an excessive rate. Cartwright is also our 2nd or 3rd best overall player. Babb might be their 4th or 5th best transfer.

Secondly, let's look at at how foolish your argument is. You say not to compare ISU to a horrible Iowa team, yet that's the whole point of the thread. We are comparing how Hoiberg is finding ways to bring in more talent to a similar setting as Iowa than what Fran has been able to accomplish thus far.

You speculate that White will only be a one year player as a way to scoff at a great addition in talent. Gosh, I suppose Kentucky should have never recruited John Wall.

The bottom line is, you can't possibly argue that we are making more progress than Hoiberg in terms of adding talent and having a better roster next year without looking like a complete moron.

9yr has had the same argument the whole time broseph.

First, Cartwright is horrible? He was the only player on Iowa that could break down the defense last year. Easily one of our top players.

Secondly, are you really comparing White to John Wall? For gosh sakes he was the top player in the country as a freshman, and without the legal troubles

Obviously the ISU roster has more talent than Iowa right now. But how are they going to respond after losing a few games in a row? Remember were talking about guys that have already quit on their prior teams.

 

[smoot27]

9yr has had the same argument the whole time broseph.

First, Cartwright is horrible? He was the only player on Iowa that could break down the defense last year. Easily one of our top players.

Secondly, are you really comparing White to John Wall? For gosh sakes he was the top player in the country as a freshman, and without the legal troubles

Obviously the ISU roster has more talent than Iowa right now. But how are they going to respond after losing a few games in a row? Remember were talking about guys that have already quit on their prior teams.

The wall white comparison was in the context of recruiting talented players for 1 yr of service, not a comparison of direct talent. And what about Cartwright do you like? The fact he is slightly better than cully Payne who never belonged in D1? He cant shoot and turns the ball over at a high rate. He is a decent backup PG so my horrible comment is a slight exaggeration. If people were ripping on Babb for being an inefficient scorer with a 1.2 pps, what does that make Cartwright with a God awful 0.99?

 

[PatrickAdamovicz]

Smoot, I agree with some of your thoughts but the guy that said that Babb and Gatens are the same player is an accurate statement. People are vastly and I mean vastly over rating Babb, Booker and Allen. All were role players and no where near first options on their previous stops. At least in the case of Babb and Allen.

As for Royce White, he looks like a good talent but all these assumptions with his play and for that matter Hoibergs roster, its a complete unknown how good they will be. At this point both of the programs are on the same level and have been for the past decade. I caution any Clone fan to temper that enthusiasm. Who will replace Garrett is a huge question. Grant it, he was a good player on a terrible team last year, but to expect a first year player to come in and run the show successfully is really gambling. I remember a damn good, very talented Iowa team with Evans and Recker struggle mainly because a true freshman named Pierre Pierce was trying to run the point. The college game is won with great guard play. We will see if Iowa St can find a good point guard. Until then Ill believe they are a good team when I see it.

Lastly, to say White is better than Basabe is laughable at this point. One has played at a high level in the Big Ten and the other is being anointed off a high school ranking and some video from the Capital City League. One went toe to toe with the best post player in the college game (Sullinger) who would've been the first player selected in the draft had he come out. I seem to remember Basabe having a stat line of around 24 pts, 13 rbs and like 5 blocks or so. Until anyone sees Royce White put up numbers like that against a top level player IN COLLEGE, lets stop with the comparison.