IMO he was. Brunner had much more value to the team. Take away Brunner's post offense and rebounding and we aren't a good team. You could make the argument that Horner rivaled Haluska for the #2 nod, but I still give it to Haluska. Apparently NBA scouts agree with me.
When Fran said let's get mad again...
- Thread starter smoot27
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IMO he was. Brunner had much more value to the team. Take away Brunner's post offense and rebounding and we aren't a good team. You could make the argument that Horner rivaled Haluska for the #2 nod, but I still give it to Haluska. Apparently NBA scouts agree with me.
I agree that defense is very important although harder to evaluate statistically because the schemes are different.
Basing the evaluating on the offensive side, Cartwright doesn't fair well against his competition. The PPS and A/T are very good indicators of efficiency. Far better than just using gross totals that don't illustrate the whole picture.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
How do you think those guys would have faired on the Iowa team? You could plug Cartwright into any of those guys shoes (except Battle and Taylor) if you ask me, and he doesn't lose them any games that they won. Do Jackson, Frazier, Morris, or Nolen lead Iowa to any more wins? I doubt it.
I guess I don't understand why you are trying to tear Cartwright down. It was a bad, bad team last year, but it most certainly wasn't Cartwright's fault.
I explained in a previous post that I'm not trying to tear Cartwright down. I'm not anti-Cartwright, I'm pro-Iowa and I don't think he is as good as we need at the position.
You or I can't prove or disprove your first paragraph. All you can base these evaluations on are past performance. The argument that he had less talent around him is not a good indicator. Did that cause him to shoot a horrible percentage at Fresno and Iowa?
Look at Lance Jeter last year for Nebraska. He had a collection of mediocre talent around him and he played well. 1.37 PPS and 2.2 A/T
I'm hoping that Cartwright can play at his level this season.
sandhawk20
Well-Known Member
Sorry...I do have to interject here. 10 year slump is a tad bit myopic as the 2005-06 team was one of the better teams in the last couple of decades. The first round upset makes it easier to forget them.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Take it for what it's worth, Bro.....
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZP0pzDRtQw]Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth‏ - YouTube[/ame]
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
rodg12
Well-Known Member
This post is just all over the place.
Somewhat egotistical to assume I was directly replying to you, Smoot.....
I never assumed you were refering directly or only to me. I assumed you were refering to any and all individuals who offered critical analysis towards Cartwright. My response was directly to you though
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Simply mentioning that I now think Cartwright is below mediocre, having been swayed by the critical opinions of him. Too much knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Actually it's not if you review the previous posts I'm replying to. My post is limited to stating that he is not better than other pg's from last year. The only segway is into the comment where I said I disagree with his using of total stats and conference awards and gave the comparison to baseball stats and Clayborn's award as relevant examples to illustrate the point.
It really doesn't take much reading comprehension to understand especially given that I was directly addressing the points in his previous posts as opposed to wandering into new topics.
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Simply mentioning that I now think Cartwright is below mediocre, having been swayed by the critical opinions of him. Too much knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Touche'
hawkIhoops
Well-Known Member
It's pretty difficult to evaluate a PG that was offered sight unseen to lead a team lacking in talent from top to bottom. Yes Cartwright looked awful the first 10 games, but he accounted for himself reasonably well the last half of the season. If guys could make chippies or hit open jumpers, his assists would have been off the charts. He also played crazy minutes and was the default go to guy in crunch time. Other than the above, Cartwright had it pretty easy his first year at Iowa.
Let's just say I'll be extremely happy if Cartwright rips it up this season. I've stated many times that my evaluation is based solely on his past experience at Iowa last season and Fresno his first year. My belief is that he currently isn't a very good pg, at least not as good as the general population believes on HN. This certainly doesn't mean he can't improve drastically.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Most gracious of you, Smoot. Gracias.....
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
DG really wasn't much better last year, he just shot a lot more and ISU played at a much higher tempo. He still is a bad outside shooter and struggles score at the rim. He's also an average defender. But I see he signed a deal with a Croatian team, so good for him, he'll never play in the NBA though.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
Cartwright is a quality PG in the Big Ten...is he as good as some fans make him out to be, no, but he isn't as bad as some want to point out as well. Statistics tell one story, but not the whole story. Yeah 3.3 turnovers per game are not good, that is easy to say. Early in the season, Cartwright looked lost and made terrible basketball choices. After the first Purdue game, he started making better basketball choices. Then something else happened, other teams realized Iowa's outside shooting was bad, clogged the lane and began to over play passing lanes.
Bryce had some good games against Michigan when he had 9 assists and 0 turnovers and lose by 14 points. When we look just at stats, it can be dangerous thing, stats are a tool, but not the answer to everything.
Look for his turnovers to drop as Iowa should and I say should, have more shooters on the floor at one time, or actually be able to bring on some players that can hit the broad side of a barn (Oglesby/White). The options on the floor should be better, a healthy Gatens and an improved Marble should and again, I say should open up the floor.
Cartwright has to improve his jump shot, not specifically his three point shot because he can penetrate very well. The one thing that I take a look at was Cartwright's supporting cast compared to all the other "great" PG's in the Big Ten and there is simply no comparison. It is not a shock that some PG's look better because they have better people around them...what is funny is how Talor Battle was earmarked as one of the great players in the Big Ten, but he took 40-50% of PSU's shots in their games. Battle was a good player, but not as good as he was percieved to be based on his inflated scoring stats, but you get 15.6 shots a game one is bound to score 20 ppg.
Demitri McAmey career: 5.3 to 2.8 (2010-11: 6.1 to 2.9)
Kalin Lucas career: 4.0 to 2.3 (2010-11: 3.4 to 2.6)
Michael Thompon career: 4.1 to 1.9 (2010-11: 4.3 to 1.9)
Lewis Jackson career: 3.6 to 1.9 (2010-11: 4.0 to 1.9)
Darius Morris career: 4.7 to 2.3 (2010-11: 6.7 to 2.9)
Bryce Cartwright career: 4.5 to 2.6 (2010-11: 5.9 to 3.3)
In looking at these stats on paper if Bryce cut his overall turnover total by 15, he would be under 3 to's pg. Is that possible, to think it isn't would be crazy. People percieve Lucas as one of the great PG's ever to come through the Big Ten, with his supporting cast, to say his numbers were average would be a stretch for last season. The big difference between Bryce and the others is he is the only one that shot below 40%.
So in summary, if Iowa puts better shooters around him the numbers improve and if Bryce shoots a better percentage his numbers may improve. Can both of those happen, yes, is it a given, no.
Talor Battle was an overrated volume scorer. I'm not arguing that he was elite. There is a reason he went undrafted. He still is more effective than Cartwright due to his ok shooting ability. He at least has a 1.29 PPS. He is a poor ball handler and distributer as evidenced by his 1.49 A/T which is why he wouldn't stand a chance in the NBA.
The best pg in the Big 10 by a longshot was Jordan Taylor (1.38 PPS and 3.83 A/T). The stats do not lie. Lance Jeter managed to play efficiently surrounded by mediocre to poor talent.
The best pg in the Big 10 by a longshot was Jordan Taylor (1.38 PPS and 3.83 A/T). The stats do not lie. Lance Jeter managed to play efficiently surrounded by mediocre to poor talent.
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