When Fran said let's get mad again...

[hawkIhoops]

Coaching is vastly overrated when you have superior talent and that is what Hoiberg has in Ames. I loathe ISU, so no closet Cyclown fan here, but he has been able to attract and retain talented players and we can't keep a kid on campus for two months. The big 12 is built on juco transfers (see KSU, OSU, ISU) and the big ten isn't.

With that being said, McCaffrey and his staff have to deliver a much better class for 2012 in order to have the necessary building blocks to move forward. Woodbury would be a great get, but I am not basing the whole class on him. I think the staff should be able to pull a kid with other big ten offers and maybe steal a player who is better than we deserve. This is not a rookie staff and they aren't getting paid chump change, so yes, I do expect results, at least in recruiting for 2012.

 

[Husky28]

did he mean March Madnesss or mad that we'll have another coach who settles for mid-major caliber talent while the state get's pillaged by better programs? Oglesby and White might turn out to be ok role players, but I have a hard time believing they will be top athletes in the Big 12.

Right now it's hard not to like what the coach in Ames is doing and be excited about their program. Royce White and Allen will have an instant impact on that team and make them at least a threat to the top teams in their league.

I think you should take heed of this saying: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"…

 

[CAARHawk]

It is not only that we should expect recruiting results in 2012, but that recent history shows that if Fran can't get it done this year in recruiting, he will never be able to get it done.

Seriously, he will have to do something unprecedented within the last decade.

 

[tweeterhawk]

It is not only that we should expect recruiting results in 2012, but that recent history shows that if Fran can't get it done this year in recruiting, he will never be able to get it done.

Seriously, he will have to do something unprecedented within the last decade.

+1. The meter's running. Fran is going to have to start delivering. This next class will be key.

 

[hawkfan8691]

Some of you are so ridiculous. Did you even watch last season? Or did you just look at the final standings? If you didn't see the vast improvement then you shouldn't be watching sports. We started out by losing our home opener, and by the end of the season we were competing in every game, including beating a top 10 team. Give the man some time. He's had one year, and we've already improved by leaps and bounds. He'll get the job done. We just need patience

 

[CAARHawk]

Some of you are so ridiculous. Did you even watch last season? Or did you just look at the final standings? If you didn't see the vast improvement then you shouldn't be watching sports. We started out by losing our home opener, and by the end of the season we were competing in every game, including beating a top 10 team. Give the man some time. He's had one year, and we've already improved by leaps and bounds. He'll get the job done. We just need patience

People said the same thing about Lick going into year two. They talked about the vast improvement they saw during the season and the fact that the team beat Michigan State (ranked number six), also everyone was ecstatic about the incoming class with Gatens and Tucker as the key pieces.

That team of Lick's won 13 games as well and competed in a lot of games with close losses, just like Fran's team. They also turned things around like getting blown out in CBus and then coming back to beat OSU at home. But to say Iowa has "improved by leaps and bounds" is ridiculous.

The team is at the bottom of the conference and a first round loser in the conference tournament.

Now, does that mean things can't turn around? No. But Fran has to make his mark right now in recruiting, or the odds of it happening will be greater than the odds of the Hawks winning the B1G this year.

 

[Husky28]

People said the same thing about Lick going into year two. They talked about the vast improvement they saw during the season and the fact that the team beat Michigan State (ranked number six), also everyone was ecstatic about the incoming class with Gatens and Tucker as the key pieces.

That team of Lick's won 13 games as well and competed in a lot of games with close losses, just like Fran's team. They also turned things around like getting blown out in CBus and then coming back to beat OSU at home. But to say Iowa has "improved by leaps and bounds" is ridiculous.

The team is at the bottom of the conference and a first round loser in the conference tournament.

Now, does that mean things can't turn around? No. But Fran has to make his mark right now in recruiting, or the odds of it happening will be greater than the odds of the Hawks winning the B1G this year.

Instead of using Lick as your standard for comparison... I challenge you to give me us one indicator that Fran is anything like Lick...

 

[smoot27]

Not sure after only one year on the job how you can make this assumption. Are Cartwright and Basabe marginal "mid-major" players? You can't rebuild a program in one season. Team chemistry can be just as important as having a roster of All-Stars. With Iowa's 10-year recent slump, do you expect a coach to come in and make Iowa a Final Four team in one season?

Hoiberg has landed some nice players but now we will see if he can truly coach. As for Fran, he has a background of rebuilding programs and you can't rebuild an Iowa program that has been down for quite some time in one season. How can you be so sure White and Oglesby will be "roleplayers?" If Fran finds a nice mix of players who learn to play as a team, then the sky is the limit. Is Butler filled with All-Star players? Butler is a perfect example of how team chemistry can take you far. Let's not give up on Fran just yet after only one season.

I'm not calling for Fran's head by any means after only a year. I believe a new coach should be given three years to attempt to build a program.

Your comment on Butler is incorrect. They had Shelvin Mack, NBA talent, who is better than anyone on our roster and Matt Howard who was a 4 star recruit and great college level post presence and also better than everyone on our roster. Shawn Vanzant and Andrew Smith would most likely be starters on our roster. The year before they had Gordon Hayward who was a lottery pick.

I agree with you that Basabe is a quality major level talent. I disagree with you on Cartwright. He has no range on his shot, turns the ball over frequently and has a low efficiency rating. People who don't look into stats carefully (most HN posters) assume he was good because he had a decent total of assists. You have to put that in perspective though; he played more minutes than most pg's in the Big Ten since we had no depth. Compare his assist/turnover ratio and shooting percentage to other Big Ten pg's for a true assessment. He'd be a decent 6th-7th man, change of pace pg off the bench on a good team.

 

[brett108]

maybe he'll pull an ogelsby and get the royal treatment at a football game for an official visit. i know i would if i was a hawk fan. wait, he can still get that if he's a commit right? or does he need to be undecided...?

You can take a visit after a verbal committment. Don't know if that is the case after you sign a LOI, but I don't see why not.

 

[GoHawks24]

The funniest thing about this thread is that some of you are acting like Fran isn't trying his best. What in the hell do you want the guy to do??? Threaten kids that don't want to come here? He inherited a program in a horrible state. You don't think he's going after guys that are "mid to major level talent"? No matter how much some keep b*tching about it, it's not going to change the fact that the Iowa basketball program is not an appealing one right now. It seems as though some of you are forgetting that. That's why it's going to take a lot of patience and belief that he can get it done because what's b*tching about it and pointing out completely obvious stuff (he needs to create a pipeline to Chicago, he needs to get bigger and better recruits to come here, etc. (DUH!)) going to do?

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Whatever Clone fan. It will be interesting watching Hoiberg's team that he assembled. It can go either way. He'll either come out smelling like roses or it could implode on him with the number of ?'able players. You have a coach that quickly assembled a team with hooligans & departures for various reasons who has never coached a college team in his lifetime. It will be interesting to watch, indeed. I'm going to tune in.

Well he's already had four players make it through an entire year of sitting out and not playing, without getting in trouble. Our transfer couldn't make it a month. ISU's guys are also proven major conference players or big time recruits. Fred also has a ton of recruiting momentum right now and is getting in on some big time high school players. Fran has a long ways to go to catch up right now.

 

[hawkIhoops]

The funniest thing about this thread is that some of you are acting like Fran isn't trying his best. What in the hell do you want the guy to do??? Threaten kids that don't want to come here? He inherited a program in a horrible state. You don't think he's going after guys that are "mid to major level talent"? No matter how much some keep b*tching about it, it's not going to change the fact that the Iowa basketball program is not an appealing one right now. It seems as though some of you are forgetting that. That's why it's going to take a lot of patience and belief that he can get it done because what's b*tching about it and pointing out completely obvious stuff (he needs to create a pipeline to Chicago, he needs to get bigger and better recruits to come here, etc. (DUH!)) going to do?

I for one don't question the effort of the staff, but I do question the results. The staff flies all over the country for a year and we have Ogelsby, White and Olaseni to show for it? You can throw out Ogelsby, as I assume he would have come to Iowa regardless, so in reality the staff "found" White and Olaseni. No juco players or transfers were pursued (or so it would seem) and we counted on a 26 year old ex-felon to walk the straight and narrow for 2 years to play 1-3. Sorry, this is a pretty poor year 1 performance IMO. Trust me, there were kids out there that would have jumped at a big ten offer...you hear about them every year.

 

[smoot27]

Let's look at what other bottom feeders from last year are doing on the recruiting trail:

Indiana:
This year they are bringing in one of the best pf recruits in the country in Zeller and a decent 4-star prospect in Etherington. In their 2012 class they aleady have four 4-star prospects commited.

Minnesota:
Two 4-star guard prospects are commited for this year's class with Joe Coleman and Andre Hollins in addition to two juco prospects. Both SG prospects received a higher grade than our best recruit Oglesby.

If you don't think we are recruiting well below standard for a major conference program you are absent to reality.

 

[talkinhawks]

I'm not calling for Fran's head by any means after only a year. I believe a new coach should be given three years to attempt to build a program.

Your comment on Butler is incorrect. They had Shelvin Mack, NBA talent, who is better than anyone on our roster and Matt Howard who was a 4 star recruit and great college level post presence and also better than everyone on our roster. Shawn Vanzant and Andrew Smith would most likely be starters on our roster. The year before they had Gordon Hayward who was a lottery pick.

I agree with you that Basabe is a quality major level talent. I disagree with you on Cartwright. He has no range on his shot, turns the ball over frequently and has a low efficiency rating. People who don't look into stats carefully (most HN posters) assume he was good because he had a decent total of assists. You have to put that in perspective though; he played more minutes than most pg's in the Big Ten since we had no depth. Compare his assist/turnover ratio and shooting percentage to other Big Ten pg's for a true assessment. He'd be a decent 6th-7th man, change of pace pg off the bench on a good team.

Or you could say that his efficiency and assist #'s would improve because he would be surrounded by better players and not be asked to do as much. He wouldn't be forced to play 37 minutes a game and that would definitely help with efficiency because he wouldn't be gassed at the end of a game.

You can think what you want about Cartwright, but it is downright impressive to lead the Big Ten conference in assists (during conference play) given the team he was surrounded by. It's not like he was passing the ball to Sullinger, Diebler and Buford.

 

[smoot27]

Or you could say that his efficiency and assist #'s would improve because he would be surrounded by better players and not be asked to do as much. He wouldn't be forced to play 37 minutes a game and that would definitely help with efficiency because he wouldn't be gassed at the end of a game.

You can think what you want about Cartwright, but it is downright impressive to lead the Big Ten conference in assists (during conference play) given the team he was surrounded by. It's not like he was passing the ball to Sullinger, Diebler and Buford.

Or you could do the logical analysis and see that he has no history of improving his efficiency even with fewer minutes and different teamates. He had a horrible 1.6 Assists/TO in 22 minutes of play while at Fresno and hardly better this year with 1.79. He's never shot the ball above 40% and the 3-pointer above 30% which is very poor. If you consider him a pass first pg and ball handler, then he can't be turning the ball over at such a high rate. He would be an ok 5th to 7th best player on a quality team. The problem is, he may be our second best. I think you are putting lipstick on a pig rather than being objective.

 

[IATrainMaster101]

While I get the premise the Iowa is recruiting "below the level of most D1 schools" I can't see how anyone could buy all in to it nor completely dismiss it at this point.

Having watched this team all of last season, and having been a lifetime Iowa fan, I honestly believe that Iowa has a better core of talent than many are giving them credit for. I think that Besabe is a true D1 talent that would work his way onto the floor of just about any team with a coach who pays attention.

I think Marble is also a legit D1 talent who will eventually end up being a nightmare for other teams to guard but was forced out of necessity into early playing time and an uncomfortable role before he was physically ready.

I could go on down the list but bottom line to me is that I think we have a nice team, right now, but are still missing some necessary help in key positions. I think we will see a better team on the floor this year than last but it is still going to get exposed in some areas. Conversly they may also really surprise from time to time.

This IS (without question) a very key recruiting season. This is the season where fans, future recruit, donors will be looking hard at. Some November success will go a long way while too many November failures will likely hurt badly.

No matter what happens this Nov however, there will be imposers posting negative trolling crap here just as there will be positive spinners.

As for ISU, Fred is doing what he had to do and on paper it loosk to be working. However, with an inexperienced coach like Hoiberg, I can not hlep but thinking about Alford early on. He landed some great talent but struggled mightily to control the team and harness the talent. Steve however had several years of experience when he came here and under delivered with a few teams.

That doesn't mean that Fred is going have the same types of results but you can't ignore the possibiluty either.

 

[David79]

While he hasn't been lighting the recruiting world on fire yet, I think it is unfair to be too hard on him to this point. This will only be his second year coming up. Wait until we start winning some more games and if the recruiting still doesn't pick up then there is a problem.

This upcoming class could be a great class though depending on the decisions of Woodbury and Gessel. If both or one of them commits then I think it will be a success.

Fran has already shown that he can coach guys up. Just look at how the team improved last year. If we can stay healthy there is no reason we can't make it through the non-con with only a couple losses. The Big Ten won't be as strong this year and we should have more wins than last year in conference play. Making the NIT is definitely a possibility and would be a huge step in the right direction.

 

[DBAHawkFan]

I see no reason or have zero hope for this team to make the NIT. We will be as good as we were last year and worse if one of our core guys (Gatens, BC, Basabe...and even Brommer) get hurt.

Fran really, really struck out with Hubbard. Never, EVER should have recruited this kid. I know second chances are great, but Hubbard would have been better off on a team that wasn't in dire straits. We need quality players who are very low risk. Build a foundation up and in another year if we can take a chance on someone with a bit more risk, go for it. But Fran put all his eggs in the Hubbard basket and now we're screwed for this season.

Bryce better not get hurt.

 

[WestCoastHawk]

This team is going to struggle this year.

Basabe is vastly overrated. I was not impressed with his defense or hustle at all, and he really doesn't have that many good low post moves.

Gatens is easily the most overrated player ever to put on a Hawks jersey. He is not clutch at all, can't create his own shots, and makes terrible decisions.

Marble is going to be one hell of a player, I wish he had another year under his belt to have matured.

Brommer can be a force this year, he's shown flashes. He just needs to work on consistency.

 

[9YRPLAN]

freddies recruiting has be vastly overrated to his point.