The Season Died at the Palestra

[PCHawk]

I played for years, so anytime you want to compare basketball knowledge, let me know.

And if you could follow along genius, you'll see I answered the question about being "reliant." I was referring to when Garza was double and triple-teamed.

Just because CMac and Weiskamp get an occasional layup, and Toussaint can occasionally drive to the rim without turning it over doesn't necessarily imply that we have much of an inside game outside of Garza. Of course some players are going to score in other ways depending upon the game being played. You're taking the statement way too literally.

What we saw last night was a team that had almost no answers when Garza was double and triple-teamed outside of throwing up threes that weren't going in. That's a fact. Were there contributing factors, such as two of our best shooters not being available? Sure, but, either way, last night this team primarily resorted to attempting threes as the strategy, and showed almost no ability to adjust (more of an indictment of the coaches than the players). To argue otherwise is delusional, but, feel free to regale us with your unrivaled basketball knowledge about how that isn't true.

2 things. First I think you're wrong that we didn't adjust. We scored a lot of points in the paint. Second, I think wide open 3s are what you want when teams double down on your post. Better than 16 footers.

 

[DDThompson]

The season died at the Palestra. Let’s hope it’s not our last year with Garza and / or Wieskamp in hawkeye jerseys.

neither one are going to go pro.

 

[DDThompson]

We only shot 5 free throws to Nebraska's 26??? How do the officials get away with blatant screw jobs like that??

You shoot 33 3s

Actually Fran’s Technical was rewarded with two quick fouls calls on Nebraska. Apparently he couldn’t get a technical called on him every 4-5 minutes to keep the fouls even.

 

[HuckFinn]

I played for years, so anytime you want to compare basketball knowledge, let me know.

And if you could follow along genius, you'll see I answered the question about being "reliant." I was referring to when Garza was double and triple-teamed.

Just because CMac and Weiskamp get an occasional layup, and Toussaint can occasionally drive to the rim without turning it over doesn't necessarily imply that we have much of an inside game outside of Garza. Of course some players are going to score in other ways depending upon the game being played. You're taking the statement way too literally.

What we saw last night was a team that had almost no answers when Garza was double and triple-teamed outside of throwing up threes that weren't going in. That's a fact. Were there contributing factors, such as two of our best shooters not being available? Sure, but, either way, last night this team primarily resorted to attempting threes as the strategy, and showed almost no ability to adjust (more of an indictment of the coaches than the players). To argue otherwise is delusional, but, feel free to regale us with your unrivaled basketball knowledge about how that isn't true.

Thanks for proving my point as to your lack of bb knowledge, again.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I'm not gonna sit here and roast Fran or anyone else for all the injuries that have happened. There's no way it can't put a dent in this team. So I'm not gonna go there. Not this year. Not in this case.

But.. As a guy that's been watching and rooting for Iowa hoops for about as long as I can remember, since the mid 80's, I've gotta tell ya: IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING.

Every time we're having a promising season with a chance to do something special, something seemingly always comes along to derail it. Some of it can be said to be self-inflicted, some of it not at all. Going back to the late 80's, things that come to mind: Ray Thompson, Chris Street, Luke Recker's knee, Pierre Pierce, February/March meltdowns (looking at you Fran and Steve Alford). Northwestern State.

This year's injuries are the latest example. So, it's looking like yet another lost season. This program would have no luck at all if not for the bad.

Sure, NCAA 2nd round last year. That's all well and good, but it also seems to be the ceiling. At least the football program has won a couple Big 10 titles this century, won an Orange Bowl, has had some Top 10 finishes. This year, double digit wins and a Top 15 finish. I need the basketball program to give me something similar. Whatever the basketball equivalent is. It's time.

If it sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself, it's because I am. I'm totally jaded now when it comes to Iowa hoops. Give me something. That said, it won't honestly take all that much to bring me back into the fold, but I'm losing faith that it's going to happen any time soon.

Jaded - made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by having or seeing too much of something.

Well said. Very well said.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

It is always something.... 100%. We haven't had much luck in this program. We've been pretty blessed with no injuries over the years, this year the "something" is fairly easily explained and I don't think it's fair to pin this one on Fran. IMO, the roster he put together to start the season seemed pretty formidable. You wanna hang him for something else I am cool with that tho. I also think we played much better D over all the last 2 seasons comparable to 2 seasons ago. I think Fran is a good coach in a not so great situation at Iowa from a lot of variables. Any coach that loses that much is gonna struggle. I am still gonna enjoy this season watching Joe T and the big 2 & see what they can make happen.

I'm not hanging Fran for this season. I have lost faith in Fran when looking at the total body of work. 3 NCAAs (no Sweet 16s or better) and a play in game (no Big Ten Titles) in 10 years does not excite me. I do thank Fran for getting us out of the Alford/Lick slide, but that only lasts so long.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Thanks for proving my point as to your lack of bb knowledge, again.

LOL

That's the best you can do? Disappointing.

I'll eagerly await your transcendent rebuttal to my points above. I'm sure I'll be blown away by your vast basketball knowledge base.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

2 things. First I think you're wrong that we didn't adjust. We scored a lot of points in the paint. Second, I think wide open 3s are what you want when teams double down on your post. Better than 16 footers.

I agree that ideally you are working for those open threes when opponents double-down on the post, but, when it became apparent that what was left of our normally good 3-point shooters (Joe W) was struggling, there were numerous things that we could have tried rather than the same formula for the majority of the game.

What I would have liked to have seen is some high-low action with Garza posting near the FT line and Kreiner posting down low, combined with our outside guys taking it hard to the rim. At the very least, we would have gotten to the FT line and stressed the defense. You don't give up on the three completely, but be more efficient picking your spots.

The part that's most frustrating is that Fran should have anticipated the strategy. Bohannon is out for the year, and CJ is out for at least this game. He should have game-planned for Garza being doubled, and teams backing off from our less than accurate outside shooters. It's an obvious strategy, and one that should have been anticipated. The staff appeared to have no answers for the majority of the game.

[Oh, and thanks for the civil conversation. Your points are at least coherent and thought out...]

 

[PCHawk]

I agree that ideally you are working for those open threes when opponents double-down on the post, but, when it became apparent that what was left of our normally good 3-point shooters (Joe W) was struggling, there were numerous things that we could have tried rather than the same formula for the majority of the game.

What I would have liked to have seen is some high-low action with Garza posting near the FT line and Kreiner posting down low, combined with our outside guys taking it hard to the rim. At the very least, we would have gotten to the FT line and stressed the defense. You don't give up on the three completely, but be more efficient picking your spots.

The part that's most frustrating is that Fran should have anticipated the strategy. Bohannon is out for the year, and CJ is out for at least this game. He should have game-planned for Garza being doubled, and teams backing off from our less than accurate outside shooters. It's an obvious strategy, and one that should have been anticipated. The staff appeared to have no answers for the majority of the game.

[Oh, and thanks for the civil conversation. Your points are at least coherent and thought out...]

I think with the players we have left, there's only so much you can do. When the other team sells out completely like Nebraska did, you don't have much choice but to shoot what they give you. All 5 guys were packed into the lane most of the time. There wasn't much we could do. It was actually impressive we scored in the paint as much as we did given the defense they played.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I think with the players we have left, there's only so much you can do. When the other team sells out completely like Nebraska did, you don't have much choice but to shoot what they give you. All 5 guys were packed into the lane most of the time. There wasn't much we could do. It was actually impressive we scored in the paint as much as we did given the defense they played.

Agree, though I still think we could have (and should have) been better prepared for that coming out of the gate.

The bigger issue late was the defense.

 

[PCHawk]

Agree, though I still think we could have (and should have) been better prepared for that coming out of the gate.

The bigger issue late was the defense.

But coming out of the gate, the thought of Wieskamp getting 10 3 point attempts was a good thing.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

But coming out of the gate, the thought of Wieskamp getting 10 3 point attempts was a good thing.

I'm not implying he should have played that way coming out of the gate, just that he should have been prepared for that contingency (depending upon Joe's success) coming out of the gate.

He knew coming in that we were missing two of our best three outside shooters.

One of Fran's weaknesses, IMO, is that he is very glued to his "system," and seems to think that he should be able to plug and play guys and have equal success. That may work in the NBA, but the talent level on college rosters is too diverse to get away with that when the rotation becomes limited.

 

[SomersHawk]

Last night was hard to watch, a lot like the DePaul game. I think the team deserves a mulligan though and I'm not giving up after one disgustingly ugly loss to a team they should have smoked, CJF or not. It's hard for a JW to shoot that bad with his eyes closed and that one kid won't sink many back to back 30 footers at crunch time.

And excuse or not one injury after another takes a mental toll on a team. The last year I coached HS Softball we got decimated early like this with injuries and it takes it out of you, both coaches and fellow players. After all the hard work they have put in to get ready for the season you feel like you got kicked in the gut each time another one goes down. It's a family member that went down and you hurt like crap right along with them. We fortunately healed up in time for the conference season and swept it, but we took lumps we wouldn't have before.

The HAWKS will regroup and play well again. But it is going to be really challenging if CJ doesn't heal up!

 

[smitharooney]

wow. You sure do not know much about basketball.

He just described the Nebraska game spot on .

 

[smitharooney]

LOL

That's the best you can do? Disappointing.

I'll eagerly await your transcendent rebuttal to my points above. I'm sure I'll be blown away by your vast basketball knowledge base.

Save your breath . He can’t even spell basketball

 

[Knight78]

When the Joes are taking more shots than the all-American post ... When C-Mac is firing up 7 hideous 3's ... not many opportunities for the other team to foul.

7 "hideous" 3's... he was 3-7 which is a respectable 42%; he also led the team in steals and assists (along with JoeT). JoeW had a number of wide open looks and he just couldn't drop any. He was 1-10 but was shooting 42% going into the game; if he shot his normal percentage he'd be 4-10. That would make a difference. Heck, Kreiner usually sinks at least one 3 pointer, but he wore the collar last night.

We outrebounded them 48-34. We had more assists and more blocks. We had the same number of turnovers. In this game it was shooting, or rather lack of it, that hurt. My brother, who has coached basketball for over 30 years, has said many times: Defense is necessary but shooting wins the war.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

But coming out of the gate, the thought of Wieskamp getting 10 3 point attempts was a good thing.

And I think they were good shots. I don't remember any of them being forced/off balance end of shot clock types of heaves either. He was just missing good looks that he normally shoots pretty good on. Coaches can't do much about that. Is what it is

 

[Xerxes]

I'm not gonna sit here and roast Fran or anyone else for all the injuries that have happened. There's no way it can't put a dent in this team. So I'm not gonna go there. Not this year. Not in this case.

But.. As a guy that's been watching and rooting for Iowa hoops for about as long as I can remember, since the mid 80's, I've gotta tell ya: IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING.

Every time we're having a promising season with a chance to do something special, something seemingly always comes along to derail it. Some of it can be said to be self-inflicted, some of it not at all. Going back to the late 80's, things that come to mind: Ray Thompson, Chris Street, Luke Recker's knee, Pierre Pierce, February/March meltdowns (looking at you Fran and Steve Alford). Northwestern State.

This year's injuries are the latest example. So, it's looking like yet another lost season. This program would have no luck at all if not for the bad.

Sure, NCAA 2nd round last year. That's all well and good, but it also seems to be the ceiling. At least the football program has won a couple Big 10 titles this century, won an Orange Bowl, has had some Top 10 finishes. This year, double digit wins and a Top 15 finish. I need the basketball program to give me something similar. Whatever the basketball equivalent is. It's time.

If it sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself, it's because I am. I'm totally jaded now when it comes to Iowa hoops. Give me something. That said, it won't honestly take all that much to bring me back into the fold, but I'm losing faith that it's going to happen any time soon.

Jaded - made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by having or seeing too much of something.

Great summary of Iowa basketball.

 

[HuckFinn]

LOL

That's the best you can do? Disappointing.

I'll eagerly await your transcendent rebuttal to my points above. I'm sure I'll be blown away by your vast basketball knowledge base.

I would suggest that we quit wasting time. You are ignoring the biggest factor in your criticism of Fran and this team. We are decimated by injury. How convenient for you.

Secondly, you have already decided that I do not know much about bb, so there is no reason for you to talk to me.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The bad thing about Nebraska is they made it all but impossible to do anything but shoot a bunch of 3s. They shut Garza down as well as you can and he still put up 16 and 18. If CJ is back and other teams want to try that plan (which is probably a good idea) they are really rolling the dice on not getting lit up from 3.

Yep, a 3 headed monster is critical in basketball, a 2 headed not-so-much.