The Season Died at the Palestra

HuckFinn said:
I would suggest that we quit wasting time. You are ignoring the biggest factor in your criticism of Fran and this team. We are decimated by injury. How convenient for you.

Secondly, you have already decided that I do not know much about bb, so there is no reason for you to talk to me.
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1. I referenced the injuries several times. In fact, the majority of the discussion pertained directly to the injury situation. It appeared to me that Fran's contingency planning (knowing he was short on perimeter shooters) was inadequate. From my POV, the team just seemed to be shell-shocked when Nebraska packed the paint while Weiskamp went cold. You have a different take, which is fine.

2. You're the one that called me out and made this personal, not me.

3. I wasn't trying to be critical of "this team." I actually like the grit and tenacity, and they have exceeded my expectations this season. It's just frustrating when they falter due to less than stellar coaching. They deserve better. Fran is a Jekyll and Hyde coach. At times he can look brilliant, but we see the "Hyde" too often for my liking.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
1. I referenced the injuries several times. In fact, the majority of the discussion pertained directly to the injury situation. It appeared to me that Fran's contingency planning (knowing he was short on perimeter shooters) was inadequate. From my POV, the team just seemed to be shell-shocked when Nebraska packed the paint while Weiskamp went cold. You have a different take, which is fine.

2. You're the one that called me out and made this personal, not me.

3. I wasn't trying to be critical of "this team." I actually like the grit and tenacity, and they have exceeded my expectations this season. It's just frustrating when they falter due to less than stellar coaching. They deserve better. Fran is a Jekyll and Hyde coach. At times he can look brilliant, but we see the "Hyde" too often for my liking.
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I just don't know what else a coach can do. He put together possibly the best trio of shooters Iowa has ever had. If that's not doing enough, then I dont know what is. I also think a lot of times the Jekyll and Hyde coaching is directly related to player performance. Fran's coaching had us in position to shoot horrible and win the game. Instead they shot worse than horrible.
 
PCHawk said:
I just don't know what else a coach can do. He put together possibly the best trio of shooters Iowa has ever had. If that's not doing enough, then I dont know what is. I also think a lot of times the Jekyll and Hyde coaching is directly related to player performance. Fran's coaching had us in position to shoot horrible and win the game. Instead they shot worse than horrible.
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I don't hate Fran as a coach. In fact, I've defended him multiple times, but I think you give him more credit than I do. That's fine. Like with any sport, fans are going to fall on a spectrum in terms of popularity of the coach.
 
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PCHawk said:
Best case scenario right now is CJ gets healthy soon enough to somehow still make the tourney. But even then, these 2 games cost us a seed that gave us a realistic chance to make a run. So I agree. The season was lost Saturday.

This game was so frustrating because as bad as it was, all we needed was to make a few 3s and we could ha e gotten the win. Or maybe Nebraska players can make a few less prayers. Man that sucked to watch those shitty ass shots keep going in.
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@InGoodCo

Sorry PC for bringing you into this. I just wanted to show that PC is a pretty level headed poster and he had a similar thought to my Palestra thread as did countless other posters in this thread. “As he says I agree the season was lost Saturday.” As my OP addresses I thought Iowa would get to 7-8 wins. I hope like hell its more than that and I’ll have my crow.

I still don’t get what Iowa beating Maryland changes about anything I said in this thread. Definitely a big win for the hawks and an unexpected one for me for certain so that was awesome.
 
I think there is a really good chance we are sitting at 1 loss if CJ didn't get hurt. Of course we are going to get more wins, but no matter what, those 2 losses are going to hurt one way or another.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
@InGoodCo

Sorry PC for bringing you into this. I just wanted to show that PC is a pretty level headed poster and he had a similar thought to my Palestra thread as did countless other posters in this thread. “As he says I agree the season was lost Saturday.” As my OP addresses I thought Iowa would get to 7-8 wins. I hope like hell its more than that and I’ll have my crow.

I still don’t get what Iowa beating Maryland changes about anything I said in this thread. Definitely a big win for the hawks and an unexpected one for me for certain so that was awesome.
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and that’s all I said. You didn’t read that one too well, now I’m on drugs
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
Bad shooting nights are going to happen. I can live with that.

But, there is no excuse for the utterly terrible on-ball defense this team plays, and has played during Fran's entire tenure. None.

Nebraska realized that they could score at will by letting the shot clock wind down, then penetrating with ease (drawing the interior defender) and dishing it off for an easy layup or wide open three. Even without penetration, Iowa's perimeter players are constantly on their heels making the shooters completely comfortable lining up the shot.

Our only player that has any lateral quickness at all is Toussaint, but he's prone to head fakes and crossovers, essentially negating whatever athletic ability he has.

This team had exceeded my expectations, but at the end of the day, is quite possibly is the least athletic team in the B1G. If the outside shot is not falling to balance out that lack of athleticism, this team won't have an answer.
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Can you whistle that tune from that show? Andy Griffins? Believe I couldn't do it.
 
Several years ago, I wanted Lisa B to retire or step down. The program was stagnant. Since then her recruiting has improved along with better coaching. Fran seems to be on the same upswing. Look at the guard recruits that are coming. The others are not chopped liver either.
 
PCHawk said:
I think there is a really good chance we are sitting at 1 loss if CJ didn't get hurt. Of course we are going to get more wins, but no matter what, those 2 losses are going to hurt one way or another.
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It'd be hard to disagree with that given how close those games were without him. I think where a number of us went wrong was in underestimating the firepower we still have between Wieskamp and Garza. Sure, we are extremely limited beyond them, but all anyone else has to do is provide defense and make smart plays (aka pass the ball to Garza or Wieskamp). It wont work against the very top like Michigan State but, if we get CJ back around the beginning of February, I think it keeps all our goals on the table. There are a lot of tough but winnable games coming up with or without him.

And hey, it could always be worse. Just ask Ohio State.
 
N8theGr8 said:
It'd be hard to disagree with that given how close those games were without him. I think where a number of us went wrong was in underestimating the firepower we still have between Wieskamp and Garza. Sure, we are extremely limited beyond them, but all anyone else has to do is provide defense and make smart plays (aka pass the ball to Garza or Wieskamp). It wont work against the very top like Michigan State but, if we get CJ back around the beginning of February, I think it keeps all our goals on the table. There are a lot of tough but winnable games coming up with or without him.

And hey, it could always be worse. Just ask Ohio State.
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You're right on underestimating those two. I've said all year you only need 2 really good players to be a tournament team. The problem with that is when the surrounding players are as sub par as our team is. The good thing is we had a better team for almost half the year and built a pretty good resume. Because of that, we can play slightly worse than a tournament team and still sneak in. The way I see it, those 2 need to come up big enough to get us 6 more wins and the rest if the guys have to steal us 2 wins. That's not too much to ask. Just because they are sub par doesn't mean they're chopped liver. Barari already helped steal one win.
 
PCHawk said:
I also don't mean to say every player other than our big 2 are sub par. Just the group as a whole.
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I think those guys have been successful to various degrees in their roles, but now they are being asked to do a lot more. There will be nights when they can handle it but can they consistently take on more is the big question until CJF returns (hopefully).

One of the unfortunate things for Iowa is that Kriener is probably the third best scorer we have left. Like he could probably get 10-12 a night in this league in the right situation. The unfortunate thing is that Garza is dominating almost all the paint touches (rightfully so) and taking up most of that space making it tougher for Kriener to get to his spots. The point being it would almost be better if one of our guards had more scoring ability and Kriener was just a garbage man, but that’s really not how it is if that makes sense.
 
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NikeHawk21 said:
I think those guys have been successful to various degrees in their roles, but now they are being asked to do a lot more. There will be nights when they can handle it but can they consistently take on more is the big question until CJF returns (hopefully).

One of the unfortunate things for Iowa is that Kriener is probably the third best scorer we have left. Like he could probably get 10-12 a night in this league in the right situation. The unfortunate thing is that Garza is dominating almost all the paint touches (rightfully so) and taking up most of that space making it tougher for Kriener to get to his spots. The point being it would almost be better if one of our guards had more scoring ability and Kriener was just a garbage man, but that’s really not how it is if that makes sense.
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I think there's hope that Kriener and Pemsl can still help. That 3 that Pemsl made could be the shot heard round the league if he can do that with any modicum of consistency. It allows more spacing for Garza and Kriener to operate in the paint and could get him on the court more to give other guys a breather. Not saying he should become a 3 point specialist, but if he took 1-2 a game and made 30-35%, it will be on scouting reports that you can't leave him completely alone out there.
 
N8theGr8 said:
I think there's hope that Kriener and Pemsl can still help. That 3 that Pemsl made could be the shot heard round the league if he can do that with any modicum of consistency. It allows more spacing for Garza and Kriener to operate in the paint and could get him on the court more to give other guys a breather. Not saying he should become a 3 point specialist, but if he took 1-2 a game and made 30-35%, it will be on scouting reports that you can't leave him completely alone out there.
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Kriener has helped a lot no question that wasn’t my point. I was just talking about Iowa’s ability to score the ball. Kriener has some scoring pop in him it’s just tougher with Garza getting most of the post touches. Not a knock on Kriener in the slightest. The point was more if a guy like Evelyn had the offensive firepower like Kriener does it would be more helpful coming from the backcourt where we are a little light on scoring.

On Pemsl I’ll just say I’ll believe when I see it. A guy hitting his first career 3 as a fourth year junior (potentially his first career jumper made at Iowa), doesn’t instill a lot of confidence to me that he will shoot 30% from 3 on 1-2 attempts a game.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Kriener has helped a lot no question that wasn’t my point. I was just talking about Iowa’s ability to score the ball. Kriener has some scoring pop in him it’s just tougher with Garza getting most of the post touches. Not a knock on Kriener in the slightest. The point was more if a guy like Evelyn had the offensive firepower like Kriener does it would be more helpful coming from the backcourt where we are a little light on scoring.

On Pemsl I’ll just say I’ll believe when I see it. A guy hitting his first career 3 as a fourth year junior (potentially his first career jumper made at Iowa), doesn’t instill a lot of confidence to me that he will shoot 30% from 3 on 1-2 attempts a game.
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I like your point on Kriener not being the ideal scoring option. I will add that it will be nice to have a scoring option with Garza on the bench (like you said, not as ideal as having one at the guard position) and it will come in handy whenever Garza is in foul trouble.

I'm curious what's up with Pemsl. I find it hard to believe he made it through all of those major surgeries still able to be a pretty good D1 player, just to have it do a 180 after getting some hardware removed. Maybe I'm minimizing that surgery because I don't know enough about it. But it seems minor compared to everything else. I really think it's mosty mental with him. Hopefully a lot of it had to do with his back too, and now maybe it's better. A sore back screws everything up. I feel like the weight thing is over played too. I'd bet the house that he's stronger now than he was as a freshman. For some reason he just can't score around the basket anymore. Any chance he gets he misses badly. That's mental. Hopefully he turns it around with more plag time and starts playing like his freshman year.
 
PCHawk said:
I like your point on Kriener not being the ideal scoring option. I will add that it will be nice to have a scoring option with Garza on the bench (like you said, not as ideal as having one at the guard position) and it will come in handy whenever Garza is in foul trouble.

I'm curious what's up with Pemsl. I find it hard to believe he made it through all of those major surgeries still able to be a pretty good D1 player, just to have it do a 180 after getting some hardware removed. Maybe I'm minimizing that surgery because I don't know enough about it. But it seems minor compared to everything else. I really think it's mosty mental with him. Hopefully a lot of it had to do with his back too, and now maybe it's better. A sore back screws everything up. I feel like the weight thing is over played too. I'd bet the house that he's stronger now than he was as a freshman. For some reason he just can't score around the basket anymore. Any chance he gets he misses badly. That's mental. Hopefully he turns it around with more plag time and starts playing like his freshman year.
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It would be nice to see Pemsl have a game where he gets 10/6 and a little extended play time. I think that would go a long way for his confidence.

He, like Kriener, just doesn’t get to operate inside as much as he would like, but as you mentioned even when he has he has missed some easy ones. I agree a lot of it is mental.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Kriener has helped a lot no question that wasn’t my point. I was just talking about Iowa’s ability to score the ball. Kriener has some scoring pop in him it’s just tougher with Garza getting most of the post touches. Not a knock on Kriener in the slightest. The point was more if a guy like Evelyn had the offensive firepower like Kriener does it would be more helpful coming from the backcourt where we are a little light on scoring.

On Pemsl I’ll just say I’ll believe when I see it. A guy hitting his first career 3 as a fourth year junior (potentially his first career jumper made at Iowa), doesn’t instill a lot of confidence to me that he will shoot 30% from 3 on 1-2 attempts a game.
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I got your point with Kriener and completely agree it would be ideal to have the guards step up. However, I'm not sure we can expect that on a consistent basis. So if Kriener can make hay when Garza is off the court by having Pemsl be the guy to draw defenders to the perimeter, that would also be good. Garza gets rest which makes him more effective when he is out there and our more experienced/reliable front court guys get more minutes than our turnover prone guards.

To partially back up my thoughts on Pemsl, he made 9/27 as a Junior in high school**. So small sample size, but if he's been working on it then it's not out of the realm of possibility. I'd be happy with 9/27 for the rest of the year from him. That would be right around 2 per game with 2 makes every 3 games. Alternatively, have Kriener do the same thing as he's already somewhat proven from out there this year (6/16 for 37.5%) and open things up for a resurgent performance from Pemsl.

**Admission of cherry picking guilt here. He was 2/15 his Senior season.
 
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