Who's the starting five next year?

[BrueCrew3]

I actually hope they dont redshirt Ingram. He is going to have a tough time cracking the rotation at all in the next couple years. Sometimes its best to get a player through the program in 4 years and use the scholly instead of having to wait an extra year.

He'll be the 11th/12th/13th man. Not a lot of playing time there. Sometimes it's best to red-shirt a player to give him a chance to develop, physically and mentally, and adapt to the game. If Ingram isn't going to play, then taking a red-shirt MIGHT be in his best interest.

GO HAWKS!!!

 

[Section136]

What is your evidence on this?

Evidence on what? My statement that Ingram will have a hard time cracking the rotation the next 2 years.

My evidence is the roster.

Next year:
Gesell
Clemmons
Marble
Oglesby
Jok

All those guys will see minutes ahead of Ingram, IMO.

2014-2015:
Gesell
Clemmons
Oglesby
Jok

Fran has to bring in at least 1 guard to fill 1 of the 3 scholarships open when McCabe, Marble and Mel leave. Who knows how talented that player will be but its not a stretch to say he could leapfrog Ingram for minutes.

 

[Section136]

He'll be the 11th/12th/13th man. Not a lot of playing time there. Sometimes it's best to red-shirt a player to give him a chance to develop, physically and mentally, and adapt to the game. If Ingram isn't going to play, then taking a red-shirt MIGHT be in his best interest.

GO HAWKS!!!

But is it in the best interest of the program?

 

[sportstalent]

Evidence on what? My statement that Ingram will have a hard time cracking the rotation the next 2 years.

My evidence is the roster.

Next year:
Gesell
Clemmons
Marble
Oglesby
Jok

All those guys will see minutes ahead of Ingram, IMO.

2014-2015:
Gesell
Clemmons
Oglesby
Jok

Fran has to bring in at least 1 guard to fill 1 of the 3 scholarships open when McCabe, Marble and Mel leave. Who knows how talented that player will be but its not a stretch to say he could leapfrog Ingram for minutes.

I don't understand pushing a kid through because you feel he isn't going to be a contributor...Iowa has Oglesby, Jok and Ingram. Then they have have Uthoff...Iowa needs as many guards as possible for as long as they can. Have to have guards and I see Ingram as a contributor in his third year and would like to have him be a sophomore at that point.

 

[Section136]

I don't understand pushing a kid through because you feel he isn't going to be a contributor...Iowa has Oglesby, Jok and Ingram. Then they have have Uthoff...Iowa needs as many guards as possible for as long as they can. Have to have guards and I see Ingram as a contributor in his third year and would like to have him be a sophomore at that point.

Not following you here. What about Gesell and Clemmons?

 

[PCHawk]

I don't understand pushing a kid through because you feel he isn't going to be a contributor...Iowa has Oglesby, Jok and Ingram. Then they have have Uthoff...Iowa needs as many guards as possible for as long as they can. Have to have guards and I see Ingram as a contributor in his third year and would like to have him be a sophomore at that point.

I don't think giving someone a scholarship for 4 years counts as "pushing them through".

 

[PCHawk]

Whenever you're the 3rd best guard in your class you're going to have your work cut out for you to see playing time. As of now he definitely has to wait for older guys to graduate to get minutes. After that there is a good chance he will get recruited over considering we are on the rise as a program.

He obviously still has a chance to be a solid contributor but if I had to bet money on it I would say he won't be. If that's the case it would be better to not red shirt him. Here's to hoping he pulls a Gabe O.

 

[sportstalent]

Not following you here. What about Gesell and Clemmons?

They are PG's...

 

[Section136]

They are PG's...

Oh, I didnt realize Gesell played strictly at the point this year.

You are going to have 2 or 3 guards on the court at the same time a majority of the time. The 5th guy amongst the guards is not going to see many minutes at all. Ingram is the 5th guy for sure next year and very well could be in 2014-2015 as well.

Not a huge difference in who the PG or SG is, especially next year as Marble, Gesell and Clemmons will all see time there.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Fran has proven he will use a RS...see Meyer. Fran wouldn't have recruited Ingram if he didn't think he could play. We used May, Oglesby, Gesell, Clemmons and Marble this year. Two years from now Ingram will have 2 years left to play with a RS and 3 of the 5 guys in the guard rotation will be gone. Jok and Ingram could potentially be the other 2...with a 4 man rotation. Don't discount Ingram's potential on the defensive end. May averaged 5 points and change but was huge on D.

Also, there's no guarantee guys are going to be rushing to Iowa knowing Clemmons and Gesell are going to be around 3 more years. If Ingram isn't coming along, has an attitude, is lazy, etc. then Fran isn't likely to RS him. If he's working hard and improving and showing potential then Fran will probably RS him...nice to have an experienced guy around the year after Gesell and Clemmons leave.

 

[MisterLucky]

I would think that if Coach McCaffery envisons Ingram as having a viable chance to play an important role in the future, he may consider a redshirt. If he sees him continuing to be the 12-13th man on the squad, he will probably let him pass through the program helping out where he can.

 

[PCHawk]

A lot probably has to do with who he has coming in next class. If he gets a guard that is likely to be better then Ingram, that would be more reason to not red shirt him. If gets someone with equal or less talent, or no guard at all, that would be reason to red shirt him.

 

[ibahawkeye]

If somebody is going to redshirt it's going to be Jok. I don't get this idea of redshirting sophomores. If they aren't ready to play by their 2nd year then there is a roll on this team and it's on the bench and pushing the starters in practice and that's ok. There is a need for these type of players.

This is Big 10 college basketball. Not everybody gets to play just becuase they are on the team. And it may be hard to believe with how many transfers we have had under Lick but there are young men who stay loyal to the program they committ to even if it doesn't work out exactly how they plan it and don't become the star player or earn the minutes they had hoped.

EDIT- If the program is heading the direction we hope... we'll have a better player down the road just as Section136 is stating. Pat could go 4 years and get a great education and the experience of traveling across the country and playing on a team that is hopefully enjoying a couple wins in NCAA tourneys and some good runs.

 

[wundergrape]

If somebody is going to redshirt it's going to be Jok. I don't get this idea of redshirting sophomores. If they aren't ready to play by their 2nd year then there is a roll on this team and it's on the bench and pushing the starters in practice and that's ok. There is a need for these type of players.

This is Big 10 college basketball. Not everybody gets to play just becuase they are on the team. And it may be hard to believe with how many transfers we have had under Lick but there are young men who stay loyal to the program they committ to even if it doesn't work out exactly how they plan it and don't become the star player or earn the minutes they had hoped.

EDIT- If the program is heading the direction we hope... we'll have a better player down the road just as Section136 is stating. Pat could go 4 years and get a great education and the experience of traveling across the country and playing on a team that is hopefully enjoying a couple wins in NCAA tourneys and some good runs.

This is a really good post. However, Olaseni is an exception to this rule because he's so new to the game. The cost/benefit of having him sit for a year and practicing with our team might make him a beast by the time he's a senior.

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying that it does make a certain amount of sense. Redshirting anyone else besides Jok (which also won't happen)? That doesn't make sense.

 

[WindsorHawk]

If somebody is going to redshirt it's going to be Jok. I don't get this idea of redshirting sophomores. If they aren't ready to play by their 2nd year then there is a roll on this team and it's on the bench and pushing the starters in practice and that's ok. There is a need for these type of players.

This is Big 10 college basketball. Not everybody gets to play just becuase they are on the team. And it may be hard to believe with how many transfers we have had under Lick but there are young men who stay loyal to the program they committ to even if it doesn't work out exactly how they plan it and don't become the star player or earn the minutes they had hoped.

EDIT- If the program is heading the direction we hope... we'll have a better player down the road just as Section136 is stating. Pat could go 4 years and get a great education and the experience of traveling across the country and playing on a team that is hopefully enjoying a couple wins in NCAA tourneys and some good runs.

Lohaus red shirted as a junior and then did very little as a RS junior before becoming something pretty special as a RS senior. He went on to play 11 years in the NBA. His 5th year is without question the exception rather than the rule but it does happen.

Why not RS Ingram if he's not going to play next year? What's the down side for Iowa? He can earn his degree and leave after his 4th year with a year of eligibility remaining. He could even take advantage of that new rule that lets a guy transfer and play right away if he has his degree...and meets the other goofy rules. We aren't signing a 5 year oath in blood if we RS the kid and he may surprise us in a year or 2. Again...I don't see the down side.

 

[WindsorHawk]

This is a really good post. However, Olaseni is an exception to this rule because he's so new to the game. The cost/benefit of having him sit for a year and practicing with our team might make him a beast by the time he's a senior.

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying that it does make a certain amount of sense. Redshirting anyone else besides Jok (which also won't happen)? That doesn't make sense.

We can agree to disagree on the issue of red shirting Ingram. I would do it in a heartbeat unless there is some problem with his work ethic, etc. If this is the case he and Fran will likely have a heart to heart and he will take his game and red shirt year to another school.

We do agree that there is also logic to using a red shirt on Olaseni...don't see it happening. We also agree that Jok will not be a RS candidate.

 

[wundergrape]

Lohaus red shirted as a junior and then did very little as a RS junior before becoming something pretty special as a RS senior. He went on to play 11 years in the NBA. His 5th year is without question the exception rather than the rule but it does happen.

Why not RS Ingram if he's not going to play next year? What's the down side for Iowa? He can earn his degree and leave after his 4th year with a year of eligibility remaining. He could even take advantage of that new rule that lets a guy transfer and play right away if he has his degree...and meets the other goofy rules. We aren't signing a 5 year oath in blood if we RS the kid and he may surprise us in a year or 2. Again...I don't see the down side.

The downside is that it plugs a scholarship up until '17-'18. Is Patrick Ingram worth it?

In my opinion, if Fran wanted to invest five years in Pat, he would have redshirted him this year.

 

[WindsorHawk]

The downside is that it plugs a scholarship up until '17-'18. Is Patrick Ingram worth it?

In my opinion, if Fran wanted to invest five years in Pat, he would have redshirted him this year.

I think there are 2 reasons he didn't RS Ingram this year...total guess on my part. He didn't know if May would be healthy all year...wasn't either of Fran's first 2 years at Iowa. He didn't know for sure that Clemmons was better than Ingram. Ingram got some minutes here and there earlier in the season and then Clemmons took those minutes away my out playing him. Ingram wasn't here over the summer and was coming off an injury so we didn't see the real Ingram this year.

At the end of the day Fran will do the right thing. Fran certainly knows more about it than any of us and I trust his judgement...think the Meyer RS was a good idea.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Lohaus red shirted as a junior and then did very little as a RS junior before becoming something pretty special as a RS senior. He went on to play 11 years in the NBA. His 5th year is without question the exception rather than the rule but it does happen.

Why not RS Ingram if he's not going to play next year? What's the down side for Iowa? He can earn his degree and leave after his 4th year with a year of eligibility remaining. He could even take advantage of that new rule that lets a guy transfer and play right away if he has his degree...and meets the other goofy rules. We aren't signing a 5 year oath in blood if we RS the kid and he may surprise us in a year or 2. Again...I don't see the down side.

I don't see Pat as a starter for this team, even in the future. I think he can be a good role palyer and as a junior/sr plug some minutes off the bench but I would rather see the sholly open sooner rather than later for the opportunity to bring in a better player.

 

[Knight78]

Have you watched Jok play? Honest question. I've seen him play in person multiple times this season living in Des Moines, and he can get to the rim. Additionally, basketball is a team sport so it's not like you can put all of the blame on him for Valley not making state. Only 8 teams make state anyways. Is Kevin Love a bad player because the Timberwolves don't make the playoffs?

A comparable question is "Did Kevin Love's high school team make it to the state tournament?" And the answer to that question is yes. He made it to the finals his junior and senior seasons, getting runner-up in his junior season and winning the state championship in Oregon his senior season.