What is this team's record if Fran had signed 2 guards, rather than Garza/Nunge?

[PCHawk]

There have been plenty of bad teams in the history of basketball that still played hard. I still maintain that there is something more going on here this season. I don’t know what it is and I have no idea if it can be fixed going forward.

Why would we need a clutch player when we get blown out of the gym most nights? JBo has actually shown a hint of a clutch gene over the last two years, but as we know he can’t create his own shot, so we need a coach who is smart enough to set something up for him to get open.

Ultimately Fran is going to need to take a step back here and evaluate the roster he has and make some tough changes to the way he coaches. Maybe he can turn it around, my guess is that’s unlikely because i think he’s pretty stubborn, but if he doesn’t and we have another down year, he will be that much closer to being shown the door.

Fran needed shooters, so he went out and got them. Then he needed bigs, and he went out and got them. Now he needs guards and he went out and got them. The problem is, he's always one step behind with fixing his roster. Well not always because he had a pretty solid roster for a few years.

Point is, I don't think it's a stubborn problem. Unless he being stubborn and purposely leaving room for his son.

 

[NoBeer]

Fran needed shooters, so he went out and got them. Then he needed bigs, and he went out and got them. Now he needs guards and he went out and got them. The problem is, he's always one step behind with fixing his roster. Well not always because he had a pretty solid roster for a few years.

Point is, I don't think it's a stubborn problem. Unless he being stubborn and purposely leaving room for his son.

Maybe someone should tell him he can recruit a guard and big in the same class instead of big big, guard guard, shooter shooter.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Fran needed shooters, so he went out and got them. Then he needed bigs, and he went out and got them. Now he needs guards and he went out and got them. The problem is, he's always one step behind with fixing his roster. Well not always because he had a pretty solid roster for a few years.

Point is, I don't think it's a stubborn problem. Unless he being stubborn and purposely leaving room for his son.

He had a lineup out there in the second half against IU with Kriener, Pemsl, Cook, with Baer at the 2. That’s the definition of stubbornness, either that or blindness.

He made the calculation before the season that he could get Nunge and Wagner their minutes at the 3. This was much discussed on this board, I even talked myself into thinking it could work. He did this because he wanted to get Pemsl and Kriener minutes. This has been a fatal miscalculation, but one he refuses to go back on.

 

[N8theGr8]

Williams was awful. This isn't bad luck this is having a terrible back court lined up for this season with or without Williams.

Williams wasn't great, but he did have experience on defense. My argument was not centered solely around him though, it was around the injuries and depletion of the roster throughout the season. We have had literally no one other than JBo on a bum foot to run the offense this season and no one to take the pressure off him. Sure Dailey is developing, but he needs another year and is also the only true backup at shooting guard. So 3 guys to take all of the guard minutes. Add in a healthy Connor and Williams and this season looks completely different.

 

[Hawk5656]

Williams wasn't great, but he did have experience on defense. My argument was not centered solely around him though, it was around the injuries and depletion of the roster throughout the season. We have had literally no one other than JBo on a bum foot to run the offense this season and no one to take the pressure off him. Sure Dailey is developing, but he needs another year and is also the only true backup at shooting guard. So 3 guys to take all of the guard minutes. Add in a healthy Connor and Williams and this season looks completely different.

Add in a healthy Connor and Williams and this season looks completely different.

 

[N8theGr8]

Small sample size warning: Iowa with Connor playing was 4-0 on the year with Bohannon averaging 27 minutes, 5 below his season average of 32.

 

[Hawk5656]

Small sample size warning: Iowa with Connor playing was 4-0 on the year with Bohannon averaging 27 minutes, 5 below his season average of 32.

Look who we played in those 4 games. Connor was going to redshirt this year behind Williams who transferred to a mid major. Our guards were going to be bad this year no matter what.

 

[N8theGr8]

Look who we played in those 4 games. Connor was going to redshirt this year behind Williams who transferred to a mid major. Our guards were going to be bad this year no matter what.

An improved Drake team with a winning record and RPI top 150 (better than UNI at least), an RPI top 100 Colorado team with wins over #4 Arizona and #14 ASU at the time they played, and admittedly bad southern utah and northern illinois teams. Our guards would have been bad, but you can win some games with bad/young guards. You won't win any games if you don't have any guards though.

 

[Hawk5656]

An improved Drake team with a winning record and RPI top 150 (better than UNI at least), an RPI top 100 Colorado team with wins over #4 Arizona and #14 ASU at the time they played, and admittedly bad southern utah and northern illinois teams. Our guards would have been bad, but you can win some games with bad/young guards. You won't win any games if you don't have any guards though.

We play 4 people at two guard spots which is normal. You are talking like we don't have any guards at all on the roster. Dailey is just as much a point guard as Williams was and he's probably not any worse than him.

 

[HuckFinn]

Garza can't jump. Nunge pretty much played the 3 or a stretch 4 in high school and I believe that's what Fran envisions him playing here. I don't consider either of them "rim protectors". Not this season. If they were, they'd each have 60 or 70 blocks on the season. We give up 30 layups/dunks a game, for Christ's sake.

I would not conclude that Garza can't jump. The fact that he is pretty darn big and at times very physical is what gives me hope for his effectiveness down the road. Yes, Nunge will be a 3 or stretch 4, but on defense, he could be an important force around the rim; two 6'11" guys hanging out there, along with a very athletic and physical Tyler Cook intrigues me about our future. I am not holding you to your stats, since 60 or 70 blocks, or 130 altogether, might be a stretch. And, 30 layups or dunks per game? Well...

 

[PCHawk]

He had a lineup out there in the second half against IU with Kriener, Pemsl, Cook, with Baer at the 2. That’s the definition of stubbornness, either that or blindness.

He made the calculation before the season that he could get Nunge and Wagner their minutes at the 3. This was much discussed on this board, I even talked myself into thinking it could work. He did this because he wanted to get Pemsl and Kriener minutes. This has been a fatal miscalculation, but one he refuses to go back on.

He is still doing it now because he has no other options. Not because of stubbornness. Not that it matters much.

 

[NikeHawk21]

He is still doing it now because he has no other options. Not because of stubbornness. Not that it matters much.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Just because Pemsl might be a better basketball player in Fran’s mind then Dailey, doesn’t mean he deserves more minutes on this particular team. Again this is about Fran pushing the right buttons and managing this team. This is our 1-3 spots and how they can easily be managed.

JBo 30 / Dailey 10
Moss 30 / Dailey 10
Dailey 10 / Baer 30

Now that will leave Fran tough decisions in the front court, but ultimately that’s why he gets paid what he does.

 

[N8theGr8]

We play 4 people at two guard spots which is normal. You are talking like we don't have any guards at all on the roster. Dailey is just as much a point guard as Williams was and he's probably not any worse than him.

You're right, but we don't have guards playing those spots, Baer is not a 2. Connor and Williams are both guards. Most importantly, both could play and defend the 1. And Dailey has learned on the fly, a major credit to him, but should have been able to back up then potentially overtake Williams.

 

[PCHawk]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Just because Pemsl might be a better basketball player in Fran’s mind then Dailey, doesn’t mean he deserves more minutes on this particular team. Again this is about Fran pushing the right buttons and managing this team. This is our 1-3 spots and how they can easily be managed.

JBo 30 / Dailey 10
Moss 30 / Dailey 10
Dailey 10 / Baer 30

Now that will leave Fran tough decisions in the front court, but ultimately that’s why he gets paid what he does.

That leaves no room for disciplining Moss for being lazy or Dailey for saying whatever he said. If one of those guys is having a really bad night (more often than not that's the case) you need some sort of backup plan. Honestly Nunge at the 3 is pretty much just as good as Moss being in the game at all. It's bad that Fran got us in this situation. But now that we're here, there isn't much he can do other than the one thing you suggested, but that can't happen perfectly every game.

 

[NikeHawk21]

That leaves no room for disciplining Moss for being lazy or Dailey for saying whatever he said. If one of those guys is having a really bad night (more often than not that's the case) you need some sort of backup plan. Honestly Nunge at the 3 is pretty much just as good as Moss being in the game at all. It's bad that Fran got us in this situation. But now that we're here, there isn't much he can do other than the one thing you suggested, but that can't happen perfectly every game.

That’s good because Fran doesn’t discipline guys for poor defense anyways, only poor offense.

The reason guys like Moss and Dailey have poor nights is because nobody on this team knows their role. They don’t know if they are going to get 10 minutes or 25 minutes on a particular night. A good coach sticks with his best options sometimes on bad nights and let’s them play through it.

I think we’ve all gathered that the playing 10/11 guys every single night is not a winning formula.

I do believe that something more happened with this team internally this year, but even given that, anyway you slice it Fran has done a terrible job managing the team this year.

Or put another way, I think a different coach could have gotten a lot more out of this team than Fran has this year.

 

[lightning1]

I would not conclude that Garza can't jump. The fact that he is pretty darn big and at times very physical is what gives me hope for his effectiveness down the road. Yes, Nunge will be a 3 or stretch 4, but on defense, he could be an important force around the rim; two 6'11" guys hanging out there, along with a very athletic and physical Tyler Cook intrigues me about our future. I am not holding you to your stats, since 60 or 70 blocks, or 130 altogether, might be a stretch. And, 30 layups or dunks per game? Well...

30 a game was clearly and purposely an exaggeration.
Olesani and Uthoff had 56/54 blocks in the 2014-15 season, respectively. They averaged 49 minutes combined, that season. Which is low because Olesani only avgd 19 mins due to splitting time with Woody. There's no reason that Garza/Nunge can't combine for closer to 60 mins per game. And if they are truly "rim protectors" then they should have no problem exceeding the number of blocks by Olesani/Uthoff. Garza's already got 31 blocks this season @ 21 mins per game.
Of course, my opinion is that Olesani and Uthoff were 5X more athletic than Garza/Nunge. Both had long arms and both of them could get off of the floor.

 

[NoBeer]

I think we’ve all gathered that the playing 10/11 guys every single night is not a winning formula.

Exactly. There are things that we should be able to see in game 1 next year and this is one of them. I'm going to be writing this team off very early next year based on a few things if I don't see changes.

 

[Hawk5656]

You're right, but we don't have guards playing those spots, Baer is not a 2. Connor and Williams are both guards. Most importantly, both could play and defend the 1. And Dailey has learned on the fly, a major credit to him, but should have been able to back up then potentially overtake Williams.

Jordan, Dailey, Moss and Ellingson. 4 guys for two spots. The issue is all of them besides Jordan are bad and so was Williams. It's a talent issue at the guard spot not a numbers issue.

 

[lightning1]

Fran needed shooters, so he went out and got them. Then he needed bigs, and he went out and got them. Now he needs guards and he went out and got them. The problem is, he's always one step behind with fixing his roster. Well not always because he had a pretty solid roster for a few years.

Point is, I don't think it's a stubborn problem. Unless he being stubborn and purposely leaving room for his son.

He needs to learn that it's OK to bank scholarships, in order to keep the current problem from happening. He should have chosen Garza or Nunge and either pursued a guard or banked the scholie for next season, when there might be a grad transfer or a JUCO available. I'd argue that it's either a case of stupidity or stubbornness.

 

[NikeHawk21]

He needs to learn that it's OK to bank scholarships, in order to keep the current problem from happening. He should have chosen Garza or Nunge and either pursued a guard or banked the scholie for next season, when there might be a grad transfer or a JUCO available. I'd argue that it's either a case of stupidity or stubbornness.

Bingo. Clearly we knew what we had with the Uhl/ Ellingson and Moss classes debacle. Instead of signing 5 freshman in the JBo/Cook class, we should have got a grad transfer or JUCO who could have helped us last year and potentially this year. If that didn’t work we could have banked a scholarship to bring a guard in with Garza and Nunge.

Clearly signing 5 guys in any one class is a bad idea, and he should have figured that out after the Woody/ MG class (not that it was a bad class overall).

I’d call a refusal to learn stubbornness.