lightning1
Well-Known Member
Could you imagine our record if Bohannon blew out a knee in November? We might not have a single win!
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What is this team's record if Fran had signed 2 guards, rather than Garza/Nunge?
- Thread starter lightning1
- Start date
Jordan, Dailey, Moss and Ellingson. 4 guys for two spots. The issue is all of them besides Jordan are bad and so was Williams. It's a talent issue at the guard spot not a numbers issue.
Agreed, but I'd argue that if they don't play, they don't count. Connor and Williams would have played. Ellingson has not and does not partially due to injury partially due to lack of athleticism (which Connor and Williams do not lack). That's 3 guards with one playing through plantar fasciitis. Remember, the only differences on this roster from last year to this year are Jok and Williams and one of those two didn't play defense half the time.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Connor would definitely help. Williams is a wasted scholarship. Moss is a 3rd year SO and Dailey is a true SO. They aren't 7' projects. They are what they are, at this point. They might get a little more efficient on the offensive end, but they won't help on the defensive end because Fran won't coach that end of the floor.Williams wasn't great, but he did have experience on defense. My argument was not centered solely around him though, it was around the injuries and depletion of the roster throughout the season. We have had literally no one other than JBo on a bum foot to run the offense this season and no one to take the pressure off him. Sure Dailey is developing, but he needs another year and is also the only true backup at shooting guard. So 3 guys to take all of the guard minutes. Add in a healthy Connor and Williams and this season looks completely different.
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Agreed, but I'd argue that if they don't play, they don't count. Connor and Williams would have played. Ellingson has not and does not partially due to injury partially due to lack of athleticism (which Connor and Williams do not lack). That's 3 guards with one playing through plantar fasciitis. Remember, the only differences on this roster from last year to this year are Jok and Williams and one of those two didn't play defense half the time.
Connor wasn't even going to play until Williams left and Connor lacks athleticism. The only thing adding Connor or Williams does to this team is bump it from an 11 man rotation to a 12 man rotation.
Connor would definitely help. Williams is a wasted scholarship. Moss and Dailey are 3rd year SOs. They aren't 7' projects. They are what they are, at this point. They might get a little more efficient on the offensive end, but they won't help on the defensive end because Fran won't coach that end of the floor.
For what it's worth, Dailey is a true sophomore who didn't play much as a true freshman last year because Williams was a better option as a defender and knew the offense. But Dailey's better this year than Williams was last year in his true sophomore year and there's still hope for him to develop further. Not saying Williams would have been great, but even a bad offensive option with okay defense would have helped this team. And what is a wasted scholarship if not one from which you derive no production? There is zero production from William's scholarship this year as no one used it. And CJ Fredrick was coming anyway.
Connor wasn't even going to play until Williams left and Connor lacks athleticism. The only thing adding Connor or Williams does to this team is bump it from an 11 man rotation to a 12 man rotation.
Regarding Connor not playing, I guess we'll never know as the McCafferys played the whole ordeal very close to the chest. But assuming that Fran wanted to give this team it's best chance to win, that means he would have thought Williams to be a better option for this year.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
This^. Dailey/Moss/Ellingson are all better suited to back up roles in the BIG conference.Jordan, Dailey, Moss and Ellingson. 4 guys for two spots. The issue is all of them besides Jordan are bad and so was Williams. It's a talent issue at the guard spot not a numbers issue.
Regarding Connor not playing, I guess we'll never know as the McCafferys played the whole ordeal very close to the chest. But assuming that Fran wanted to give this team it's best chance to win, that means he would have thought Williams to be a better option for this year.
Which is why I'm saying it's a talent issue and not a numbers issue.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I remembered that Dailey was in the 2016 class and edited my post. Dailey has potential but for whatever reason, Fran won't play him enough minutes to find out what that potential is.For what it's worth, Dailey is a true sophomore who didn't play much as a true freshman last year because Williams was a better option as a defender and knew the offense. But Dailey's better this year than Williams was last year in his true sophomore year and there's still hope for him to develop further. Not saying Williams would have been great, but even a bad offensive option with okay defense would have helped this team. And what is a wasted scholarship if not one from which you derive no production? There is zero production from William's scholarship this year as no one used it. And CJ Fredrick was coming anyway.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
I don't think Connor was ever going to redshirt. I think CW saw the writing on the wall and moved on. There is no way that CW was a better option than Connor. Unless Fran was going to use Connor and CW in the line up at the same time, with either Moss or Bohannon. FrankenFran's line ups are hard to understand and even harder to predict.Regarding Connor not playing, I guess we'll never know as the McCafferys played the whole ordeal very close to the chest. But assuming that Fran wanted to give this team it's best chance to win, that means he would have thought Williams to be a better option for this year.
Which is why I'm saying it's a talent issue and not a numbers issue.
And I agree, there is certainly a talent issue at guard preventing us from being a great team. But if the only guy you're replacing from a team that was one win away from the tournament last year is a guard who played defense every other possession, then I don't think we have the defensive woes we're experiencing this year. Now taking away another guard with two years of Big Ten experience and failing to replace either of them, that leads to the challenges we've had this year. Add Williams and a healthy Connor to this roster and we might be a win away from the tournament again, but at least we'd be in the running.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Not if they take 3 or 4 years to develop like Moss/Williams/Ellingson/Dailey/Ogelsby/Clemmons. adding 3 young, inexperienced guards just reboots the "we're a young team" excuse. No?So with 2 or 3 new guards, it might be a pretty big difference next year.
Yeah, I remembered that Dailey was in the 2016 class and edited my post. Dailey has potential but for whatever reason, Fran won't play him enough minutes to find out what that potential is.
Sad but true. Since this season is already circling the drain, we should be getting guys like Dailey that can help us next year as much experience as possible.
And I agree, there is certainly a talent issue at guard preventing us from being a great team. But if the only guy you're replacing from a team that was one win away from the tournament last year is a guard who played defense every other possession, then I don't think we have the defensive woes we're experiencing this year. Now taking away another guard with two years of Big Ten experience and failing to replace either of them, that leads to the challenges we've had this year. Add Williams and a healthy Connor to this roster and we might be a win away from the tournament again, but at least we'd be in the running.
Pete would be one of our better perimeter defenders this year if he was back. Seriously, that's how bad it's gotten. Also some of our players haven't improved or regressed from last year which has hurt. Williams and Connor were never going to be an option together, it was always going to one way or another and I don't think either change much on this team besides adding another player to an already inflated rotation.
Not if they take 3 or 4 years to develop like Moss/Williams/Ellingson/Dailey/Ogelsby/Clemmons. adding 3 young, inexperienced guards just reboots the "we're a young team" excuse. No?
For CJ yes. For Wieskamp, no. Fair or not, I think expectations are higher for him.
Not if they take 3 or 4 years to develop like Moss/Williams/Ellingson/Dailey/Ogelsby/Clemmons. adding 3 young, inexperienced guards just reboots the "we're a young team" excuse. No?
No way it will be a young excuse next year. If Moss and Baer are both still starting come conference play, that's a bad sign for the freshmen. When a freshman takes the spot of an upperclassmen who used to be a starter, that's not grounds for the young excuse. It means you've upgraded your starter spot and your backup spot. Now you can say we are still young so we will be even better next year. But you can't say we suck because we're young. Big difference there.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
It might help some but we are giving 37 minutes per game to true FR Garza/Nunge.
There's something going on with Dailey and Fran. I just don't care enough to make the phone calls to try and figure it out.Sad but true. Since this season is already circling the drain, we should be getting guys like Dailey that can help us next year as much experience as possible.
For CJ yes. For Wieskamp, no. Fair or not, I think expectations are higher for him.
I'm pretty sure Connor is an upgrade over Moss or Baer already too. I fully expect two new starters and the 2 and 3 position next year. When you replace your two worst starters, you have a completely different team.
I'm pretty sure Connor is an upgrade over Moss or Baer already too. I fully expect two new starters and the 2 and 3 position next year. When you replace your two worst starters, you have a completely different team.
Moss was a clear recruiting miss wasn't he?
