What is this team's record if Fran had signed 2 guards, rather than Garza/Nunge?

NoBeer said:
This won't happen, despite the fact that it should. That's not the Iowa way to do things. It would buy Fran some capital in my book if he actually would "Creen" some players as Steve Deace put it in the podcast but I'm probably a little more ruthless than the average Iowa fan. I've had to fire low performers and after going through it few times it kind of hardens you and makes you realize that you were hurting the rest of your team by letting them hang on.

As others have said, you can be honest with players and say, "You're not going to get PT. Do with that information what you will but you're essentially scout team from here out." Given Fran's rotation proclivities, I question if he has that level of mature honesty in him.
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If this was the NBA or NFL I'd completely agree with you, but at the end of the day these are college kids. You don't "fire" college kids. You just be up front and honest with them. They chose to commit to you, you commit to them in return.
 
mopkins said:
If this was the NBA or NFL I'd completely agree with you, but at the end of the day these are college kids. You don't "fire" college kids. You just be up front and honest with them. They chose to commit to you, you commit to them in return.
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I think that's a bit rose colored way to look at it. It's a billion dollar industry. Players transfer all over the place. Its kind of a microcosm of the world at large. Very little loyalty. Kind of like employee employer relations these days. It may not feel good but it is reality.

I feel like Iowa fans suffer a lot from an athletic department that wants everything to be Leave it to Beaver when it just isn't any more. I hope the high horse is comfortable because the view isn't very good.
 
Stanzi said:
Gotcha. I guess I don't count Connor since he's already here. I also see Weiskamp as more of a 3 than a 2. Isn't Fredrick like 6'8"? That would seem to make him more of a 3 as well. Of course, someone will have to play guard for us lol.
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I've always heard there really isn't a difference between a 2 and a 3 with Fran. I think we have one new 1/2, one new 2, and one new 2/3 next year. If they could all be better than Moss (or just two of them for that matter) that would make a huge difference for next year. Any time your starting 2 becomes your 3rd best 2, it has to make a huge difference.
 
NoBeer said:
I think that's a bit rose colored way to look at it. It's a billion dollar industry. Players transfer all over the place. Its kind of a microcosm of the world at large. Very little loyalty. Kind of like employee employer relations these days. It may not feel good but it is reality.

I feel like Iowa fans suffer a lot from an athletic department that wants everything to be Leave it to Beaver when it just isn't any more. I hope the high horse is comfortable because the view isn't very good.
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Its not a billion dollar industry for the kids. Kids commit to playing for you and your school, and their parents are trusting their child in the hands of that coach and you want to just throw them out on the street before they can finish their education?

Besides, except for maybe Jok's class Iowa has never had an issue with too many roster spots under Fran. I think they're even playing this season with an open scholarship or two. They were able to award Baer a scholarship 2 years ago, and have Connor walk-on. Flemming, Williams, Dickerson, Dale Jones, Brandon Hutton, Ingram, Kyle Meyer....all of those guys decided to transfer out of the program on their own without being forced out. This offseason you'll see more of the same thing.
 
mopkins said:
Flemming, Williams, Dickerson, Dale Jones, Brandon Hutton, Ingram, Kyle Meyer....all of those guys decided to transfer out of the program on their own without being forced out. This offseason you'll see more of the same thing.
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I think you're splitting hairs between on their own and forced out. Telling a player they are not going to get meaningful PT is not forcing anyone out or pulling their scholarship. But, practically it is the same thing. Fran can either be straightforward with the players who aren't D1 caliber or he can continue the asinine rotation he's been running but if he chooses the latter his job is at stake when it continues to fail.
 
Williams, Dickerson, Dale Jones, Brandon Hutton, Ingram, Kyle Meyer....all of those guys decided to transfer out of the program on their own without being forced out. This offseason you'll see more of the same thing.[/QUOTE]

In other words, they were put between a rock and a hard spot so it “was their decision “.
 
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MelroseHawkins said:
You guys are assuming you are getting two 4* guards who are defending specialists. There is still a huge question mark of quality of guards would be replacing the two spots.
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All I know is, we subtracted 2 guards (Jok and Williams - 1 1/4 guards to be precise) and added 2 forwards, from last year's team and we are currently 7 games worse. Jok and Williams were not defensive specialists by any stretch of the imagination. Your point is taken, however. We can't really trust that Fran is bringing in the types of guards we need.
 
PCHawk said:
Why would we assume that the guards would be better defenders as freshmen than Moss and Dailey? We don't need random new guards. We need upgrades over the guards we have. If all we needed was a random guard who could defend, we had one when McCaffery signed Nunge and Garza.

Here's another question. Say there was some way to know Garza and Nunge will both turn out to be really good. Would it be worth a throw away this yearto have them both for the next 3?
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Who said "any random guard"?? You really stretch the fabric of reality sometimes. I don't know anyone in the history of sports message boards that hope for a random recruit that's worse than what is already on the roster!
 
As to players transferring: The comments about cutting them loose are way off base. First, if we commit to a player, that commitment stands as long as s/he proceeds academically, follows team rules, and stays out of trouble with the law. If this changes, the coach who takes the route of booting players should be fired immediately.

At the same time, the coaches need to be honest with these young men with regard to their potential for playing time. Any dishonesty in this area is as bad as throwing them out. The difference is that in the latter case, the athlete can choose to stay and complete his/her degree and accept that playing time might not be where s/he hoped.

Just because college sports are expensive and involve lots of $$ does not mean its a "big business" in the relationship with the student athletes.

The only way I would see players being cut loose for not being good enough would be if they were told of that option when we recruited them. Good luck with that.
 
lightning1 said:
We STILL don't!
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Not right now, today. But I will maintain that Cook, Nunge, Garza, if they learn the proper techniques with experience, can serve in that role. Think about some times this year where we have blocked shots or cut off drives with these three guys. It is not like it never happens.
 
lightning1 said:
Who said "any random guard"?? You really stretch the fabric of reality sometimes. I don't know anyone in the history of sports message boards that hope for a random recruit that's worse than what is already on the roster!
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Well you didn't specify, so that means random. If you would have asked what our record would be if we got two 4 star guards instead of Nunge and Garza, I would say pretty damn good. If you would have asked what it would be if we got average guards, I would say a little better. If you asked what it would be if we got two terrible guards, I would say not good. You didn't specify. That means random.
 
HuckFinn said:
Not right now, today. But I will maintain that Cook, Nunge, Garza, if they learn the proper techniques with experience, can serve in that role. Think about some times this year where we have blocked shots or cut off drives with these three guys. It is not like it never happens.
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Garza can't jump. Nunge pretty much played the 3 or a stretch 4 in high school and I believe that's what Fran envisions him playing here. I don't consider either of them "rim protectors". Not this season. If they were, they'd each have 60 or 70 blocks on the season. We give up 30 layups/dunks a game, for Christ's sake.
 
PCHawk said:
Well you didn't specify, so that means random. If you would have asked what our record would be if we got two 4 star guards instead of Nunge and Garza, I would say pretty damn good. If you would have asked what it would be if we got average guards, I would say a little better. If you asked what it would be if we got two terrible guards, I would say not good. You didn't specify. That means random.
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Yeah.....I'll say it one more time------NOBODY HOPES FOR A PLAYER THAT ISN'T BETTER THAN WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE ROSTER!
Nobody needs to specify that. Get your head out of your ass, kid.
 
lightning1 said:
Yeah.....I'll say it one more time------NOBODY HOPES FOR A PLAYER THAT ISN'T BETTER THAN WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE ROSTER!
Nobody needs to specify that. Get your head out of your ass, kid.
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Well then give us a baseline of talent. Maybe say two guards that impact the game the exact same as Nunge and Garza, except from the guard position. Or two guards who were equally high ranked as Nunge and Garza. Don't just say two guards.
 
PCHawk said:
Well then give us a baseline of talent. Maybe say two guards that impact the game the exact same as Nunge and Garza, except from the guard position. Or two guards who were equally high ranked as Nunge and Garza. Don't just say two guards.
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Sure.....use whatever metric or measurable that you need to come up with BIG quality guards. JFC.
 
Who are even the best freshman guards in the B1G this year? Hardly seems like any have been having a big impact.

I still think there is a team chemistry issue with this team. They aren’t buying into Fran and Fran isn’t pressing the right buttons.
 
Does anyone remember that Moss was inserted into the lineup last season to be a perimeter defender? I remember he did a nice job against Monte Morris last year.

This year I agree with everyone that he looks lost defensively, but to me it just looks like he isn’t committed to playing hard on that end. There’s no way you could tell me that Moss and Dailey couldn’t be decent defenders if they had a coach who taught defense and demanded effort.
 
NoBeer said:
I think you're splitting hairs between on their own and forced out. Telling a player they are not going to get meaningful PT is not forcing anyone out or pulling their scholarship. But, practically it is the same thing. Fran can either be straightforward with the players who aren't D1 caliber or he can continue the asinine rotation he's been running but if he chooses the latter his job is at stake when it continues to fail.
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It's not splitting hairs, there's a distinct difference between being honest with a kids future playing time and revoking his scholarship, which is what you're suggesting.

If Fran is honest and tells kids where he sees them next season, and they decide to transfer, so be it. I imagine Fran and ellingson will have that very conversation in a week or two. If ellingson decides transfer or stay, it should remain his choice
 
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