What is this team's record if Fran had signed 2 guards, rather than Garza/Nunge?

PCHawk said:
No way it will be a young excuse next year. If Moss and Baer are both still starting come conference play, that's a bad sign for the freshmen. When a freshman takes the spot of an upperclassmen who used to be a starter, that's not grounds for the young excuse. It means you've upgraded your starter spot and your backup spot. Now you can say we are still young so we will be even better next year. But you can't say we suck because we're young. Big difference there.
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All we hear about, day in and day out, are the excuses about how young this team is!!!! How is it not going to be an excuse when we have 3 FR getting significant minutes next year? Or even 2 of them (JW and Connor)?
Trust me. That's what we'll hear when this team fails to make the NCAA tournament next year! Mark my words.
 
N8theGr8 said:
For CJ yes. For Wieskamp, no. Fair or not, I think expectations are higher for him.
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Don't forget Connor. I fully expect the trio of Connor/JW/CJF to play 50+ minutes per game next season. That's if we don't have any defections in the off season, from the current roster. If anyone transfers, I expect 60+ mins out of them. Either way, true FR will play at least 25% of the available per game minutes next season.
 
lightning1 said:
All we hear about, day in and day out, are the excuses about how young this team is!!!! How is it not going to be an excuse when we have 3 FR getting significant minutes next year? Or even 2 of them (JW and Connor)?
Trust me. That's what we'll hear when this team fails to make the NCAA tournament next year! Mark my words.
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Stop yelling again! We are young because we have one upperclassmen who contributes. Next year we will have one senior contributor, 5 or 6 sophomore contributors, 2 sophomore contributors, one redshirt freshmen contributor, and probably just one true freshman contributor. That's not young.

Now like I said, when you have one expendable senior on the team and you start two freshmen (I think we will) you can say we are still young so we can improve. That's completely different in my mind. If we suck next year, we will without a doubt suck the year after, and everyone knows that.

Besides, I haven't seen the young excuse on here for over a month probably. The young excuse works great when you are a team like last year. Not so much this year. DO YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
 
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, those of you who think Connor is going to be a big factor next year are in for another major disappointment.
 
PCHawk said:
Even considering who he has to beat out?
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How many 6’5 PGs that are average at best in terms of quickness and shaky shooters have ever made an impact in the B1G? I don’t recall of any.

Are you throwing in to towel on Moss and Dailey? Do yourself a favor and look up Marble and Jok’s per minute stats as sophomores. It’s not out of the question that these guys develop. They haven’t played any defense but neither has anyone else on the team this year.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
How many 6’5 PGs that are average at best in terms of quickness and shaky shooters have ever made an impact in the B1G? I don’t recall of any.

Are you throwing in to towel on Moss and Dailey? Do yourself a favor and look up Marble and Jok’s per minute stats as sophomores. It’s not out of the question that these guys develop. They haven’t played any defense but neither has anyone else on the team this year.
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Not Dailey for sure. But I kinda have with Moss. It's not his production that bothers me. It's his basketball IQ. Marble as a sophomore looked like he could turn into something good. Not because of his stats, but because of how he looked on the court.

As far as big point guards. A kid can have the deficiencies you said, yet still have a really high basketball IQ to make up for it. It's not like I think Connor would make us good. I think Cook, Garza, Bohannon, and Weiskamp can make us good, with Connor being a headsy distributor that doesn't hurt us. Hopefully he will hustle for loose balls too. That alone would be an upgrade.
 
From what I've heard, he's a really good ball handler. That is what we need. It's hard to be quick if you can't dribble the ball good enough to keep up with your body. I'm not saying it will happen next year, but you don't think Connor will ever be able to use his size and ball handling ability to get around people?
 
PCHawk said:
Not Dailey for sure. But I kinda have with Moss. It's not his production that bothers me. It's his basketball IQ. Marble as a sophomore looked like he could turn into something good. Not because of his stats, but because of how he looked on the court.

As far as big point guards. A kid can have the deficiencies you said, yet still have a really high basketball IQ to make up for it. It's not like I think Connor would make us good. I think Cook, Garza, Bohannon, and Weiskamp can make us good, with Connor being a headsy distributor that doesn't hurt us. Hopefully he will hustle for loose balls too. That alone would be an upgrade.
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I suppose it doesn’t matter. Dailey will probably transfer due to the lack of minutes he’s gotten this year / knowing Fran will play Connor over him.

I’m afraid next year is going to be another struggle.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I suppose it doesn’t matter. Dailey will probably transfer due to the lack of minutes he’s gotten this year / knowing Fran will play Connor over him.

I’m afraid next year is going to be another struggle.
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The first sign I ever got that Dailey might transfer is last game due to saying something evidently. His role went up this year. Usually when that happens, kids are more happy, not less.
 
PCHawk said:
From what I've heard, he's a really good ball handler. That is what we need. It's hard to be quick if you can't dribble the ball good enough to keep up with your body. I'm not saying it will happen next year, but you don't think Connor will ever be able to use his size and ball handling ability to get around people?
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Jordan is a good ball handler. The problem is he’s too slow to get around anyone.

No like I said I’ve never seen a 6’5 PG with underwhelming quickness and not that great of shooter be much of a factor at this level. Maybe he will.... my guess is he won’t.
 
PCHawk said:
Stop yelling again! We are young because we have one upperclassmen who contributes. Next year we will have one senior contributor, 5 or 6 sophomore contributors, 2 sophomore contributors, one redshirt freshmen contributor, and probably just one true freshman contributor. That's not young.

Now like I said, when you have one expendable senior on the team and you start two freshmen (I think we will) you can say we are still young so we can improve. That's completely different in my mind. If we suck next year, we will without a doubt suck the year after, and everyone knows that.

Besides, I haven't seen the young excuse on here for over a month probably. The young excuse works great when you are a team like last year. Not so much this year. DO YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
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Your logic is so convoluted I think there are multiple people who don't get what you are saying. Its like you've backed into an inconsistent conclusion and are trying to find a way to support it. You don't go from young to not young in one season. We're either not that young this year or we're still pretty young next year. Regardless, its just an excuse. Being so young that you finish last in the league is a recruiting and coaching failure. You should never be so young that it basically dooms you losing nearly every conference game.
 
NoBeer said:
Your logic is so convoluted I think there are multiple people who don't get what you are saying. Its like you've backed into an inconsistent conclusion and are trying to find a way to support it. You don't go from young to not young in one season. We're either not that young this year or we're still pretty young next year. Regardless, its just an excuse. Being so young that you finish last in the league is a recruiting and coaching failure. You should never be so young that it basically dooms you losing nearly every conference game.
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Now I don't know what you are saying it. Or actually I don't know why you are saying it to me right now. I perfectly understand the youth of our team compared to how bad we are, and it's not good. That's why you don't see youth being talked about in here anymore. We are well past the youth working as an excuse.

As far as you not understanding my logic. Do you mean the part where I think there is a difference between using being young as an excuse, and saying there is still room to improve because we are young?

If we become an average team next year, I won't say we are only average because we are young. I will say we are average because we were terrible last year. We won't even be very young next year. Probably pretty close to average actually. We ARE young this year (a legit reason for not being good, but a really bad excuse for being terrible) and we were even younger last year. Those are facts.
 
NoBeer said:
Your logic is so convoluted I think there are multiple people who don't get what you are saying. Its like you've backed into an inconsistent conclusion and are trying to find a way to support it. You don't go from young to not young in one season. We're either not that young this year or we're still pretty young next year. Regardless, its just an excuse. Being so young that you finish last in the league is a recruiting and coaching failure. You should never be so young that it basically dooms you losing nearly every conference game.
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What inconsistent conclusion could I possibly have right now? I was arguing that people won't be saying we are young next year because we will be older than this year and people aren't even saying it now anymore. Why would they start saying it again next year? Because we have two freshmen contributors? Pretty much every team in the country has two freshmen contributors? Again, what conclusion are you talking about?
 
The roster will be balanced nicely with youth and experience next year. Having two energy guys in Baer and Wagner as seniors should provide leadership. Junior year Bohannon, Cook, Dailey, Kriener, Moss, and Pemsl should be a solid core. Sophomore year Nunge and Garza should benefit greatly from an extra year of weight lifting. Freshman Connor, CJF, and Wieskamp should provide the depth we need at guard as Dailey and Moss should take the next step. All these things should happen, but none of it's guaranteed. No matter what happens though, youth and inexperience will no longer be the problem. If we don't make the tournament next year, it's unequivocally on the coaching staff, they have the horses.
 
lightning1 said:
30 a game was clearly and purposely an exaggeration.
Olesani and Uthoff had 56/54 blocks in the 2014-15 season, respectively. They averaged 49 minutes combined, that season. Which is low because Olesani only avgd 19 mins due to splitting time with Woody. There's no reason that Garza/Nunge can't combine for closer to 60 mins per game. And if they are truly "rim protectors" then they should have no problem exceeding the number of blocks by Olesani/Uthoff. Garza's already got 31 blocks this season @ 21 mins per game.
Of course, my opinion is that Olesani and Uthoff were 5X more athletic than Garza/Nunge. Both had long arms and both of them could get off of the floor.
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Garza does something better than jump. He blocks out, on that last play against Indiana he allowed Cook to get the rebound and screened for Cook to shoot. That's a winning play. To bad Cook couldn't seal the deal.
 
dahlhawk said:
Garza does something better than jump. He blocks out, on that last play against Indiana he allowed Cook to get the rebound and screened for Cook to shoot. That's a winning play. To bad Cook couldn't seal the deal.
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I love Garza's motor. I hate his slow feet.
 
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