This lawyer thinks JoePa acted correctly both morally and ethically

[Hawkcrush]

NO ONE, Made sure the boy was ok. For all they new he was burried in the woods, that is the biggest problem with this. A lawyer can say he did everything possible, Sandusky was still on campus last week. Joe Pa should have made sure the kid was found and the parents were made aware something happened. Lets think about this for a Minute. A 28 year old man comes to you distraught with what he saw. You don't think to ask exactly what he saw, that makes no sense ans simply would not work in front of a jury of actual people. Again, there is no explaining this and not excusing it, so lets stop. Even if you are a lawyer.

 

[Hawkcrush]

I am reminded of the scene from Saving Private Ryan, where the soldier who was brought along to interpret, panicked and hid, with all of the ammo, while his fellow soldiers were killed. We all see ourselves as being noble and heroic, but in the heat of the moment, self-preservation can be a powerful force. Spielberg portrayed that with great impact in that movie, life can sometimes imitate art.

Good god, this is not a movie. This actually happened and real people were involved. Have you never been faced with making a tough decsion, but you new you had to do what was right. There is no way you have kids and think this way.

 

[theboat]

I am reminded of the scene from Saving Private Ryan, where the soldier who was brought along to interpret, panicked and hid, with all of the ammo, while his fellow soldiers were killed. We all see ourselves as being noble and heroic, but in the heat of the moment, self-preservation can be a powerful force. Spielberg portrayed that with great impact in that movie, life can sometimes imitate art.

Even if the guy didn't have the balls to act in the heat of the moment, that doesn't excuse the failure of everyone to act once things cooled off.

 

[storminspank]

I am reminded of the scene from Saving Private Ryan, where the soldier who was brought along to interpret, panicked and hid, with all of the ammo, while his fellow soldiers were killed. We all see ourselves as being noble and heroic, but in the heat of the moment, self-preservation can be a powerful force. Spielberg portrayed that with great impact in that movie, life can sometimes imitate art.

Heat of the moment?

What happened didn't require snap judgement or split second action - those sort of things I can understand when people might fail or do the wrong things. Paterno, the GA, the janitor, the AD, all involved with this had time to make it right. Days, weeks, months later they still had the opportunity to say something, to do something... they didn't.

This wasn't someone who killed the guy who was raping his daughter in a fit of rage. This was a number of people not going to the authorities when they knew an employee (or past employee) was raping young men on school property.

You can't condemn McQeary for not punching the **** out of Sandusky when he saw it - fine. Some people act differently in the hear of the moment. But not going to authorities in the days, weeks, months that passed? No way. That is inexcusable and a black eye to the sort of society we live in.

 

[homes]

Good god, this is not a movie. This actually happened and real people were involved. Have you never been faced with making a tough decsion, but you new you had to do what was right. There is no way you have kids and think this way.

I'll put you down in the unequivocally noble and heroic category.

 

[homes]

Heat of the moment?

What happened didn't require snap judgement or split second action - those sort of things I can understand when people might fail or do the wrong things. Paterno, the GA, the janitor, the AD, all involved with this had time to make it right. Days, weeks, months later they still had the opportunity to say something, to do something... they didn't.

This wasn't someone who killed the guy who was raping his daughter in a fit of rage. This was a number of people not going to the authorities when they knew an employee (or past employee) was raping young men on school property.

You can't condemn McQeary for not punching the **** out of Sandusky when he saw it - fine. Some people act differently in the hear of the moment. But not going to authorities in the days, weeks, months that passed? No way. That is inexcusable and a black eye to the sort of society we live in.

It's not a perfect analogy, but there is a common thread - one of self preservation - I think that was the point of the OP's post.

 

[silvanthalas]

I'll put you down in the unequivocally noble and heroic category.

By all means. It's certainly a much loftier position from where you're sitting.

 

[homes]

By all means. It's certainly a much loftier position from where you're sitting.

You know nothing about me, nor I of you.

 

[DuffMan]

How can so many be convinced that the GA and Joe didn't think they were going to the authorities?

 

[blkngldFRO]

Sandusky fondled a kid in the shower in 1998. The kid told his mother, who called PSU. University police were notified, but it does not seem like any serious investigation was ever conducted. Sandusky was advised not to shower with kids anymore. I gotta think this incident led to Paterno forcing Sandusky out.

In 2000 a janitor saw Sandusky engaging in sexual activities with a boy in the showers of the FB building again. The janitor reported it to his immediate supervisor, but neither the janitor or supervisor took it any further. It seems they were afraid of losing their jobs.

Then the 2002 rape occurred, which was witnessed by a graduate assistant. The GA claims he told Paterno about the incident in graphic detail, and Paterno told the AD about it. The AD then interviewed the GA; again, the GA claims he told the AD about it in graphic detail. The AD claims the incident was described as "horsing around," and that there was never any indication that it was sexual in nature. The grand jury did not believe the AD's testimony, which is why he is being charged with perjury.

That is 3 incidents between 1998-2002, all with credible witnesses, 2 of which were reported to the AD.

You have to wonder how many total people have turned a blind eye to this. Clearly the GA, Paterno, the AD, the man in charge of PSU police, the janitors, and probably many more. I find it hard to believe Sandusky's wife had no idea. I am sure many of the other PSU coaches heard rumblings. If this was swept under the rug to protect "the program," it is one of the most despicable things to ever happen in college athletics, and everyone involved should be prosecuted harshly.

However, I get the suspicion that it was less a coverup, and more a sad reflection on human nature. Sandusky is a creep and needs to be destroyed. Most of the other people mixed up in this would probably be described by others as good people, people who want to do the right thing. Yet through some combination of denial, hesitancy to get involved in something so ugly, and a strong sense of self-preservation, they convinced themselves that either nothing was going on, or that what was going on wasn't that bad.

We all hope to God that we would have more strength and sense than that, and we can swear to the mountain tops that we would, but ultimately we never know until being put in that position. I am in no way excusing, just commenting that most people look out for their own interests first and foremost, and protecting others, especially those they don't know, is often an afterthought.

+1

We can never say what exactly we would do when presented with a situation. The only way to know is to be in that situation yourself. Ever seen the show "what would you do?" I have been in similar situations, and do know how I would react.

I am wondering if there is so much anger directed at Joe, and he reported it to his superiors, where is the same passionate anger for the whole group of Janitors that did nothing for fear of losing their jobs?

 

[ICHawk24]

I am wondering if there is so much anger directed at Joe, and he reported it to his superiors, where is the same passionate anger for the whole group of Janitors that did nothing for fear of losing their jobs?

I've been told over and over and over that Joe is not simply a football coach, but an agent for change. He gets buildings built, donates millions, brings the campus together, blah blah blah.

The janitors were a bunch of new employees who were afraid of losing their menial jobs. I do think they screwed up, but Joe is the most powerful man in State College and had nothing to fear. What, he may lose his job at 75?

 

[DJL]

+1

We can never say what exactly we would do when presented with a situation. The only way to know is to be in that situation yourself. Ever seen the show "what would you do?" I have been in similar situations, and do know how I would react.

I am wondering if there is so much anger directed at Joe, and he reported it to his superiors, where is the same passionate anger for the whole group of Janitors that did nothing for fear of losing their jobs?

Joe is the most powerful man at Penn State period. His assistant came to him. He should have stopped it right then and there. Gone to the police that night. Instead, as many have said, he and everyone else went into self preservation mode. Now all of the kids after that had to suffer because these DBs did the what was "legally required of them" It's all BS

 

[storminspank]

How can so many be convinced that the GA and Joe didn't think they were going to the authorities?

By seeing Sandusky still hanging around the facilities.
By him not being arrested.

I think it'd be pretty easy to follow up with the power that be.

We're not talking about someone stealing food out of the company fridge. We are talking about a member of the school raping young men. I'm pretty sure you'd have information in regards to the authorities being contacted.

 

[theboat]

How can so many be convinced that the GA and Joe didn't think they were going to the authorities?

wow, now you are really spinning. Your boss is the authority if you see someone stealing pens at work, only an absolute moron would think that your boss is the appropriate authority when seeing a child getting raped. I hope you are just playing devils advocate and don't actually believe that.

 

[LutherHawk]

I am reminded of the scene from Saving Private Ryan, where the soldier who was brought along to interpret, panicked and hid, with all of the ammo, while his fellow soldiers were killed. We all see ourselves as being noble and heroic, but in the heat of the moment, self-preservation can be a powerful force. Spielberg portrayed that with great impact in that movie, life can sometimes imitate art.

As the most powerful and visible figure at the university, it does not fly that he just followed protocols. You cannot have it both ways. He uses his notariety and fame to promote his football program for his (and the university's own means), yet abjectly failed to use that privilege of power and fame to prevent further injury and trauma to kids. He may have done this out of human nature, not wanting to face something ugly and justifying in his own mind that he 'properly followed university protocols'.
This was often the excuse given by German soldiers and Nazis during WWII and the Holocaust - 'I was just following orders, protocols within the beauracracy...I am not individually at fault'. But as humans we have a higher moral obligation to take action and not just passively, but assertively to challenge immorality even in the face of potential negative consequences to ourselves. This is especially prudent for those in a position actual and inherent power. Institutions (govenmental, educational, commercial) by their nature will operate, under a collective of persons, to protect their own existence. Individuals will look to ways to protect their own self-interests and that of the institution sub-consciously knowing that responsiblity, blame, and action are spread between many, thereby reducing or eliminating the necessity for risky personal actions.
Unfortunately for JoePa, his unique status and proximity to the person involved inherently and morally puts him in a position to take considerable actions, even if that requires going outside of the normal channels when it is clear the processess are not working properly.
Quite simply - JoePa failed. Did he do anything overtly wrong, maybe not. But did he fail to live up to the standards he often preaches to his teams and as the figurehead of the institution - a resounding, YES!

 

[silvanthalas]

You know nothing about me, nor I of you.

I, and many others, are not the ones going out of their way to defend Paterno.

Which tells me all I need to know about you right now.

 

[JonDMiller]

Duff, Schultz was not the police. Part of his job was to oversee campus police. But he was not the police.

Still, Paterno knew of these and the 1998 claims, knew the only punishment for Sandusky was having his locker room key taken away and a ban on bringing kids on campus (which is kicking the can into someone else's lawn).

At that point, the moral demands kick in. If they don't, I find that to be harboring a child molester.

 

[DuffMan]

You know nothing about me, nor I of you.

I, and many others, are not the ones going out of their way to defend Paterno.Which tells me all I need to know about you right now.

People aren't going out of their way to defend him, anymore than you or anyone else is going out of their way to persecute him.

The reality is there are many people that have culpability in this. At the top is Sandusky and at the bottom is the GA.

JoePa's culpability is probably somewhere between naivity in thinking those above him would do or were doing the right thing once he passed it up the chain of command, to complicity in the conspiracy to cover everything up.

I don't know anyone has enough info to determin where in that scale he is, but from everything I've seen I'm leaning to the former.

 

[TritonHawkeye]

He provided this information in 2002. That is nine years ago... How much time passes until you say, hmmmm wonder what is being done with the Sandusky investigation?

 

[CP87]

I, and many others, are not the ones going out of their way to defend Paterno.

Which tells me all I need to know about you right now.

No need for personal attacks. He was not defending Paterno in any way, he was just stating that though we all think we would do the right thing, we just don't know. History provides a long and infamous list of people who looked the other way as atrocities occurred. We can all read the grand jury testimony and pound our chests about how we would have done the right thing, and we all believe that in our heart of hearts (I know I do). But the truth of the matter is that many people, including many of the chest-pounders on this thread, would do what Paterno did. It doesn't make it right, it is just what history has shown us over and over.