This lawyer thinks JoePa acted correctly both morally and ethically

[Igothawked]

How do you explain the fact that dozens of people had opportunities to stop this, and none of them did? Logically, I only see two choices:

1. Many people have the potential to commit cowardly acts, and our inability to come to grips with and correct those cowardly acts is compromised by the fact that we think only spineless, gutless scum do those sorts of things, and we are not spineless, gutless scum.
2. Only spineless, gutless scum commit such acts, and PSU just happened to have the perfect storm of dozens of spineless, gutless scum being involved with this situation, with not 1 decent human being in the bunch.

One of those explanations makes us feel a lot better about ourselves, but the other has a much higher likelihood of being true.

I am going to step out on a limb and guess you are a psychologist or a psych major.

 

[Igothawked]

I am frustrated by the fact that so many people are having such difficulty understanding that nothing that I have written has been in defense of the acts, and nothing that I have written has been in the defense of the individuals. In addition, so many people refuse to believe that normal people can do bad things when the evidence is overwhelming that this is most certainly the case. I am not sure if the problem lies with comprehension skills or if it goes back to the psychological construct we all have of ourselves as good individuals. Regardless, I am definitely done trying to convince anyone.

In closing, if this negligence truly was part of a conspiratorial plot to "protect the program," it is the most despicable failing in the history of college athletics. The hundreds of millions that PSU will pay in damages will never be enough, and everyone involved should spend long years in jail.

I understand that you are not defending the acts themselves (At least I would really hope not). But you are definately coming across as defending the mindsets or the thought processes these individuals were going through at the time. And that is why you are coming across as seeming as though you are defending these people.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

I am frustrated by the fact that so many people are having such difficulty understanding that nothing that I have written has been in defense of the acts, and nothing that I have written has been in the defense of the individuals. In addition, so many people refuse to believe that normal people can do bad things when the evidence is overwhelming that this is most certainly the case. I am not sure if the problem lies with comprehension skills or if it goes back to the psychological construct we all have of ourselves as good individuals. Regardless, I am definitely done trying to convince anyone.

In closing, if this negligence truly was part of a conspiratorial plot to "protect the program," it is the most despicable failing in the history of college athletics. The hundreds of millions that PSU will pay in damages will never be enough, and everyone involved should spend long years in jail.

I understand what you are saying CP. I'm sure McQuery the tough guy quarterback would have been on here making all these tough guy posts about what he would have done.

As a person who has been in the military and seen things as bad as this or worse I can tell you that what you are saying is more often the truth.

Nothing about any of these reactions suprise me. They were worried about their own hided and being associated with this sicko.

 

[DexterMorgan]

A lawyer with ****ed up views of what is and isn't morally right. Color me surprised.

 

[CP87]

I understand that you are not defending the acts themselves (At least I would really hope not). But you are definately coming across as defending the mindsets or the thought processes these individuals were going through at the time. And that is why you are coming across as seeming as though you are defending these people.

I guess what frustrates me the most is people's inability to differentiate between trying to explain/understand vs. trying to defend. Perhaps there is just too much emotion connected to this story.

I am not a psychologist or psych major, but I am a scientist. I guess my mind is trained to understand phenomena so that they can be influenced. In this case, understand the situation so we can prevent anything like this from happening again.

I am not satisfied with the explanation of, "These people are evil and nothing like us." That is grossly oversimplified and there is too much evidence to the contrary: the holocaust, people walking by strangers in distress on sidewalks, people ignoring child abuse, people watching a patient die on a hospital floor, people intentionally harming others in Milgram's seminal work, etc.. Most importantly, the explanation that these people did what they did because they are evil or cowards does NOTHING to prevent something like this from happening again.

If we understand WHY dozens of people, most of whom would be described by acquaintances as good people, chose to ignore this atrocity, we have a better chance of preventing something like this in the future.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

They have done studies on this for years..

People scream that they are getting raped and people often sit idly and watch people get beat to death. There are countless examples, studies and these are everyday people who thought they would do this or that.

The sad reality is that people usually have quite opposite reactions then what they think they would.

I guarantee McQuery didn't react like he thought he would either.

Where he failed is that after time he chose his own plans over doing the right thing.

 

[Igothawked]

I guess what frustrates me the most is people's inability to differentiate between trying to explain/understand vs. trying to defend. Perhaps there is just too much emotion connected to this story.

I am not a psychologist or psych major, but I am a scientist. I guess my mind is trained to understand phenomena so that they can be influenced. In this case, understand the situation so we can prevent anything like this from happening again.

I am not satisfied with the explanation of, "These people are evil and nothing like us." That is grossly oversimplified and there is too much evidence to the contrary: the holocaust, people walking by strangers in distress on sidewalks, people ignoring child abuse, people watching a patient die on a hospital floor, people intentionally harming others in Milgram's seminal work, etc.. Most importantly, the explanation that these people did what they did because they are evil or cowards does NOTHING to prevent something like this from happening again.

If we understand WHY dozens of people, most of whom would be described by acquaintances as good people, chose to ignore this atrocity, we have a better chance of preventing something like this in the future.

I understand your mindset, you/I/the entire human race are never going to understand WHY people do these things. Why do serial killers murder? Why do men rape women? Why do pedophile's prey on children?

The best answer you are ever going to get is that they are mentally ill or have a screw loose, they are sick. Unless society changes and these things become the norm. The answer as to why people do these things is because they have something in their mind that this is what makes them happy, or what gives them joy in life. There will always be people doing this stuff, but once it becomes known to others it has to be stopped or attempted to be stopped immediately.

 

[tm3308]

They have done studies on this for years..

People scream that they are getting raped and people often sit idly and watch people get beat to death. There are countless examples, studies and these are everyday people who thought they would do this or that.

The sad reality is that people usually have quite opposite reactions then what they think they would.

I guarantee McQuery didn't react like he thought he would either.

Where he failed is that after time he chose his own plans over doing the right thing.

This pretty much sums it up. Not many people would actually have intervened on the spot. They might wish they had, or thought they would in that kind of situation, but most people will freeze.

It's what McQueary did after the fact that makes him as guilty as anyone involved.

 

[CP87]

I understand your mindset, you/I/the entire human race are never going to understand WHY people do these things. Why do serial killers murder? Why do men rape women? Why do pedophile's prey on children?

The best answer you are ever going to get is that they are mentally ill or have a screw loose, they are sick. Unless society changes and these things become the norm. The answer as to why people do these things is because they have something in their mind that this is what makes them happy, or what gives them joy in life. There will always be people doing this stuff, but once it becomes known to others it has to be stopped or attempted to be stopped immediately.

Again, you are missing the point. I understand that Sandusky is sick and beyond hope. There is nothing that would change that short of him being destroyed or locked away.

But Sandusky has not been under discussion. The discussion has been centered around why everyone else looked the other way. Those people are not mentally ill, and they do not have a screw loose. We can explore why these people made their horrible, heinous decisions, and we can hope to better understand how the system failed. This could prevent something like this from happening in the future.

 

[Igothawked]

I understand your mindset, you/I/the entire human race are never going to understand WHY people do these things. Why do serial killers murder? Why do men rape women? Why do pedophile's prey on children? The best answer you are ever going to get is that they are mentally ill or have a screw loose, they are sick. Unless society changes and these things become the norm. The answer as to why people do these things is because they have something in their mind that this is what makes them happy, or what gives them joy in life. There will always be people doing this stuff, but once it becomes known to others it has to be stopped or attempted to be stopped immediately.

Again, you are missing the point. I understand that Sandusky is sick and beyond hope. There is nothing that would change that short of him being destroyed or locked away.But Sandusky has not been under discussion. The discussion has been centered around why everyone else looked the other way. Those people are not mentally ill, and they do not have a screw loose. We can explore why these people made their horrible, heinous decisions, and we can hope to better understand how the system failed. This could prevent something like this from happening in the future.

That is where your whole premise does not make sense and why you are coming across as defending the actions of the people other than Sandusky's.
I think it is obvious why the likes of Joe Pa, mcqueery, janitor, AD, ect did what they did. They were concerned about themselves, their jobs, their legacy, money, who knows maybe some of them were even threatened physical harm. I think the answer to why they did what they did is pretty simple.
Its fairly obvious that the children were in no way considered when they decided why they were going to cover this up.

 

[CP87]

That is where your whole premise does not make sense and why you are coming across as defending the actions of the people other than Sandusky's.
I think it is obvious why the likes of Joe Pa, mcqueery, janitor, AD, ect did what they did. They were concerned about themselves, their jobs, their legacy, money, who knows maybe some of them were even threatened physical harm. I think the answer to why they did what they did is pretty simple.
Its fairly obvious that the children were in no way considered when they decided why they were going to cover this up.

The reason that my premise, specifically that normal people often turn a blind eye to atrocities (50% of adults who witness child abuse do not report it, as mentioned in one of my previously linked articles) and that if we understand why they do this we can better prevent such atrocities, does not make sense to you is because your comprehension skills are not strong.

Go ahead, have your last word and win your discussion forum battle.

 

[Igothawked]

I cannot seem to find any article you linked in this thread, but that may just be because my comprehension skills are not good.
Anyway good luck on your scientific quest to determine why witnesses to child abuse do not report it. If you find an answer I will gladly eat some crow for you.