This lawyer thinks JoePa acted correctly both morally and ethically

[ICHawk24]

The GA did not tell JoePa what he actually saw,according to Joe.

GA testified before a grand jury that he told Joe exactly what happened. Grand jury considers his testimony extremely credible.

Joe claimed to reporters that he doesn't know.

Joe continued to see Sandusky around the football complex for the next 9 years.

 

[ICHawk24]

This is such a brutally stupid statement.

At Iowa the police are sworn in State Troopers.

Why no guns?

 

[CP87]

Sandusky fondled a kid in the shower in 1998. The kid told his mother, who called PSU. University police were notified, but it does not seem like any serious investigation was ever conducted. Sandusky was advised not to shower with kids anymore. I gotta think this incident led to Paterno forcing Sandusky out.

In 2000 a janitor saw Sandusky engaging in sexual activities with a boy in the showers of the FB building again. The janitor reported it to his immediate supervisor, but neither the janitor or supervisor took it any further. It seems they were afraid of losing their jobs.

Then the 2002 rape occurred, which was witnessed by a graduate assistant. The GA claims he told Paterno about the incident in graphic detail, and Paterno told the AD about it. The AD then interviewed the GA; again, the GA claims he told the AD about it in graphic detail. The AD claims the incident was described as "horsing around," and that there was never any indication that it was sexual in nature. The grand jury did not believe the AD's testimony, which is why he is being charged with perjury.

That is 3 incidents between 1998-2002, all with credible witnesses, 2 of which were reported to the AD.

You have to wonder how many total people have turned a blind eye to this. Clearly the GA, Paterno, the AD, the man in charge of PSU police, the janitors, and probably many more. I find it hard to believe Sandusky's wife had no idea. I am sure many of the other PSU coaches heard rumblings. If this was swept under the rug to protect "the program," it is one of the most despicable things to ever happen in college athletics, and everyone involved should be prosecuted harshly.

However, I get the suspicion that it was less a coverup, and more a sad reflection on human nature. Sandusky is a creep and needs to be destroyed. Most of the other people mixed up in this would probably be described by others as good people, people who want to do the right thing. Yet through some combination of denial, hesitancy to get involved in something so ugly, and a strong sense of self-preservation, they convinced themselves that either nothing was going on, or that what was going on wasn't that bad.

We all hope to God that we would have more strength and sense than that, and we can swear to the mountain tops that we would, but ultimately we never know until being put in that position. I am in no way excusing, just commenting that most people look out for their own interests first and foremost, and protecting others, especially those they don't know, is often an afterthought.

 

[homes]

All of this information is too raw right now, and it involves incredibly vile and repulsive conduct that evokes emotions of the highest order. Everyone can project their own child being in that situation and it makes your blood boil, to say the least. Anyone in the path of this conduct is going to go down, that's the way people want it to be, and it is not going to be popular to think or say otherwise. Everyone gets to take a shot now, and probably with justification.

​

However, there's a part of me that is still saddened that JoePa is going down with this group, because of everything I've read about the man, he is a good man and has done the right thing 99.9% of the time; it's the .1% that looks like will be his legacy, or at least the "yeah, but . . ." part of his story. I would still like to know all of the facts that surrounded his involvement (and I guess I'm hoping there's something out there to show he was more proactive), but the more I look at this, I want to tell Joe - why didn't you just pick up the damn phone and make one lousy call when you saw that nothing was happening; that's all you needed to do, and none of this would have happened - to the other kids that followed, namely, but in some other way, the loss of all the good that his name carries (or perhaps, more appropriately now, carried). Alas, it likely will not end that way. It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and an instant to ruin it.

 

[storminspank]

After moving up the chain of command, to learn that your bosses didn't go to police, at that time (at the latest) you have to step in and go to the police. Someone had to do the right thing. None of them did. So they al should be removed from their positions, and all of them most certainly will

I have to agree with this.

If this had been done, Sandusky would have been (presumably) stopped and further abuses would have been prevented... that's the real sadness in regards to what went down.

If they just felt enough compassion to do the right thing so many unspeakable truths could have been prevented. Pretty sad.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

One thing that I've learned is that knee jerk reactions are often wrong and "The court of public opinion" is usually not something any sane person would want to be tried by.

Situations like this are always more complicated and I think this lawyer can make anyone - who can stop and think - see how this could get played.

However, Jon is correct.

Paterno initially did the right thing, but when he saw that no one was doing anything about it he had an obligation to push it and at this point there is no evidence that he did.

It looks like he washed his hands of it.

 

[BSpringsteen]

Why no guns?

University policy.

Next time you're pulled over by Statey, tell then they're not a real cop. You'll end up in real jail.

Same thing at the U.

 

[AHawk1]

The chain of command is in title only. Joepa ran that University. As has been stated he is off the hook legally but not morally.This occurred in basically Joe's house, his locker room. As Jay Bilas stated this is a ten year old boy and an adult in a shower and no one feels they need to contact the police.

 

[vegashawki]

It must be true coming from a lawyer... Sorry to any lawyers reading this but I deal with them all the time and MOST not all are lying arrogent individuals. Ofcourse he thinks he did everything legally and morally right, he himself has no morals so why could he knock JoePas. I got an idea, how about call the police with the information? Phones were invented around 1854 the year he was born so he should know how to use one.

 

[DuffMan]

No, he didn't. The guy was "retired" in 1998, and then still allowed to bring kids on campus and into the showers.

Look at this a different way. If you saw a coworker doing something like this in the gym locker room at work, would you tell your boss? Or call the police? Or confront the individual?
Would you tell that individual that they can still come use the work gym as long as they just don't bring any kids there any more, knowing full well what he is probably doing outside of the work gym? I am guessing that any human being answers the above differently than JoePa did.

First of all I don't know how anyone could honestly and accurately answer that first question. If you asked every man here what they would do if someone put a gun to their wifes head nearly all would say something about stepping in and taking action to protect her. The reality is a good percentage would probably just sit there, quiver, and **** themselves.

The correct question isn't "what would you do?" rather, "is what he did reasonable". Everything I've read says they were. He went to the head person in his world, and they referred him to the head of the campus police department. I think that's a very reasonable course of action.

Lastly I think we have differing opinions on what Joe Pa's role was regarding Sandusky and his contact with the university. JoePa disassociated himself and the football program with Sandusky on an official basis. It was the AD that banned him from campus and took all further action.

Lastly consider this. Most of us realize that JoePa has a much lesser role in the football program than he used to, or many other head coaches have. Many of us consider him the HC in title only and consider him a figure head. Why does anyone expect that someone that has less than full control in the day to day operations of his own football team to have some additional control over larger aspects of the University?

 

[fsanford]

The attorney also does not take into account, that the AD is Paterno's boss in name only. At Penn State Paterno tells the AD what to do, not the other way around.

Joe Paterno is 2nd maybe to the President of Penn State in terms of power and
control. And I say maybe because Paterno may be the most powerful employee at Penn State.

Paterno and Penn State knew about this stuff in the late 90's and covered it up.

Sandusky "retired" at 55. A successful defensive coordinator, retires at 55.
How often does that happen.

 

[DuffMan]

After moving up the chain of command, to learn that your bosses didn't go to police, at that time (at the latest) you have to step in and go to the police. Someone had to do the right thing. None of them did. So they al should be removed from their positions, and all of them most certainly will

Jon, as that article stated one of the bosses was the police.

 

[AHawk1]

CP87, very good post

 

[fsanford]

First of all I don't know how anyone could honestly and accurately answer that first question. If you asked every man here what they would do if someone put a gun to their wifes head nearly all would say something about stepping in and taking action to protect her. The reality is a good percentage would probably just sit there, quiver, and **** themselves.

The correct question isn't "what would you do?" rather, "is what he did reasonable". Everything I've read says they were. He went to the head person in his world, and they referred him to the head of the campus police department. I think that's a very reasonable course of action.

Lastly I think we have differing opinions on what Joe Pa's role was regarding Sandusky and his contact with the university. JoePa disassociated himself and the football program with Sandusky on an official basis. It was the AD that banned him from campus and took all further action.

Lastly consider this. Most of us realize that JoePa has a much lesser role in the football program than he used to, or many other head coaches have. Many of us consider him the HC in title only and consider him a figure head. Why does anyone expect that someone that has less than full control in the day to day operations of his own football team to have some additional control over larger aspects of the University?

I think the fact the guy is still around shows how much power and control he does have.

 

[DuffMan]

I think the fact the guy is still around shows how much power and control he does have.

Power and control are two entirely different things.

 

[ICHawk24]

Lastly I think we have differing opinions on what Joe Pa's role was regarding Sandusky and his contact with the university. JoePa disassociated himself and the football program with Sandusky on an official basis. It was the AD that banned him from campus and took all further action.

No, no, no, no. He was NEVER banned from campus. He was told not to bring children, but retained his office in the football complex and access to the football complex.

Lastly consider this. Most of us realize that JoePa has a much lesser role in the football program than he used to, or many other head coaches have. Many of us consider him the HC in title only and consider him a figure head. Why does anyone expect that someone that has less than full control in the day to day operations of his own football team to have some additional control over larger aspects of the University?

The president and AD showed up to his house in 2004 and attempted fire him, and Joe told them to go F themselves. I would say that he had more power than those two guys.

 

[FalseMirage]

How much evidence was lost in the time it took for the GA to report it to Paterno and the time it took Paterno to report it up the chain? The GA failed miserably in not interrupting the act and reporting it right away, but Paterno continued that failure. In many ways Paterno had the greater responsibility to ensure this was brought to the attention of authorities right away.

The way it was handled, Sandusky had ample time to kill the boy and dispose of the body st his leisure, had he been so inclined. It seems that everyone involved sat on the info, trying to determine the best course of action. Since the best course of action in such matters is to call the police, they only reason to sit on the info in that situation would be to try and determine the best course of action for ME, and not the victim - or whatever you want to call them.

 

[DuffMan]

I didn't read theentire Grand Jury indictment, butcorrect me if I'm wrong here, it took 48 hours for Joe paterno to rport the GA's allegations to the AD, who in turn reported it to the University President?

If that is in fact the case, I can not understand for the life of me how anyone could possibly suggest that Joe Pa or the GA's actions were even remotely morally responsible.

You are wrong. The GA saw the assualt, left the facility and called his dad. He and his dad went to JoePa's house that night. The following day JoePa relayed the info to the AD and the VP in charge of the campus police force.

 

[latrans]

Sandusky fondled a kid in the shower in 1998. The kid told his mother, who called PSU. University police were notified, but it does not seem like any serious investigation was ever conducted. Sandusky was advised not to shower with kids anymore. I gotta think this incident led to Paterno forcing Sandusky out.

In 2000 a janitor saw Sandusky engaging in sexual activities with a boy in the showers of the FB building again. The janitor reported it to his immediate supervisor, but neither the janitor or supervisor took it any further. It seems they were afraid of losing their jobs.

Then the 2002 rape occurred, which was witnessed by a graduate assistant. The GA claims he told Paterno about the incident in graphic detail, and Paterno told the AD about it. The AD then interviewed the GA; again, the GA claims he told the AD about it in graphic detail. The AD claims the incident was described as "horsing around," and that there was never any indication that it was sexual in nature. The grand jury did not believe the AD's testimony, which is why he is being charged with perjury.

That is 3 incidents between 1998-2002, all with credible witnesses, 2 of which were reported to the AD.

You have to wonder how many total people have turned a blind eye to this. Clearly the GA, Paterno, the AD, the man in charge of PSU police, the janitors, and probably many more. I find it hard to believe Sandusky's wife had no idea. I am sure many of the other PSU coaches heard rumblings. If this was swept under the rug to protect "the program," it is one of the most despicable things to ever happen in college athletics, and everyone involved should be prosecuted harshly.

However, I get the suspicion that it was less a coverup, and more a sad reflection on human nature. Sandusky is a creep and needs to be destroyed. Most of the other people mixed up in this would probably be described by others as good people, people who want to do the right thing. Yet through some combination of denial, hesitancy to get involved in something so ugly, and a strong sense of self-preservation, they convinced themselves that either nothing was going on, or that what was going on wasn't that bad.

We all hope to God that we would have more strength and sense than that, and we can swear to the mountain tops that we would, but ultimately we never know until being put in that position. I am in no way excusing, just commenting that most people look out for their own interests first and foremost, and protecting others, especially those they don't know, is often an afterthought.

You pretty much nailed it. The thing that I think most people are missing is that if you look at the larger picture it seems pretty obvious that this was what is known as an 'open secret' many people knew and people talk. I'd be willing to bet that most people in the football program and obviously many in the higher reaches of the administration knew or had some knowledge that Sandusky was a rapist of children. The fact that so many failed to act in a decisive and appropriate manor is heart-breakingly sad and likely motivated by no more than cowardice and a misguided desire to protect the reputation of an institution.

 

[DuffMan]

No, no, no, no. He was NEVER banned from campus. He was told not to bring children, but retained his office in the football complex and access to the football complex.

Fine, but it's become clear he had no further association with the team. The fact he was allowed on campus is not a JoePa related matter.


The president and AD showed up to his house in 2004 and attempted fire him, and Joe told them to go F themselves. I would say that he had more power than those two guys.

Again power and control are two different things.