MSU problems might be just starting

[Adam]

Some were in the same room. He was a master. Youve never been in a hurry and dropped kids of or left to take a call? Ever? Ever been around somrbody completely disarming and let your guard down? Ever?

I will answer in 2 fold.

1st: My daughter is grade school age so I can't speak for raising a college aged daughter. That said, No nobody disarms me. I believe that every person on earth is capable of pure evil. I treat them as such.

2nd: It is not my opinion that the parents should of been in these exam rooms. I'm saying there should be multiple medical staff. Not just Larry, and not even Larry and 1 other staffer. There needs to be 3 people. It is proven that a trinity is much harder to corrupt or intimidate. People find courage when others share the same burden. While 1 person may not have the fortitude to stand against the evil alone they are often empowered by having others to lean on. It is my opinion that this should be the minimum standard for examining boys and girls throughout college age.

 

[HawkGold]

I will answer in 2 fold.

1st: My daughter is grade school age so I can't speak for raising a college aged daughter. That said, No nobody disarms me. I believe that every person on earth is capable of pure evil. I treat them as such.

2nd: It is not my opinion that the parents should of been in these exam rooms. I'm saying there should be multiple medical staff. Not just Larry, and not even Larry and 1 other staffer. There needs to be 3 people. It is proven that a trinity is much harder to corrupt or intimidate. People find courage when others share the same burden. While 1 person may not have the fortitude to stand against the evil alone they are often empowered by having others to lean on. It is my opinion that this should be the minimum standard for examining boys and girls throughout college age.

Dad of 6 kids. 3 girls. Larry was in the room with parents.

Im as deligent as any parent. 3 kids are adults. Some of the things I heard about later I am shocked at. You cant monitor all of it.

I agree w your standards. I will say that until you have multiple kids graduate into adulthood to not be so quick to criticize. Parents of 1 kid can feel way over confident or incompetent based one child and neither one be accurate. There are worthless parents though. Mine were. You sound like a great dad and that is terrific.

The parents who demanded their daughter aplogize to Larry had issues she alluded to but wouldnt discuss. When Larry was sentenced and led off there was mild applause and lots of hugging. That particular girl looked lost and had no one to hug her. It was so sad.

Im really not arguing with you. With 6 kids on any certain day I can feel really good or bad as a parent based on one kid if that were my only child on a given day. Some of based on the child and some my based on my strengths and weaknesses as a parent.

 

[MisterLucky]

Except we haven't been landing a string of championships year after year. If U. of Iowa has deep-state cover-ups in athletics, we're doing it "wrong". OTOH, guys seem to leave or get booted more at Iowa than other places.

Yeah, in lieu of $100 handshakes, we're slipping recruits free car wash coupons.

 

[MoseSchrute]

We are disconnected from each other and the consequences of our actions, or in-actions, because progress is the goal, not the health of our society.

Some call it "progress". Some would say the road to Hell is paved with "good intentions".

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

I hope OTL never visits Iowa campus. I would like to think we are cleaner (I am not so naive to think clean), but it does make you wonder what would get turned up if people started asking the tough questions.

Have no idea about the athletic program but @ UIHC there was a world-renowned pulmonologist who was found to have child porn on his computers. Before that the head of the transplant program "resigned", took a job out east and then was fired from that job for being a drunk.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700190238/Ex-Iowa-doctor-loses-license-over-porn-affair.html

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I'd even go one step further and say it's maddening. Because who was out there promoting the Payne deal with that young girl? Knowing full well what he'd done as a freshman. I feel the school was out there promoting all that to try and counteract that in some sick twisted way. There are some serious what did you know when did you know it and what'd you do questions that need to be asked and for Izzo to start dodging those like he did the other night and I expect will continue to do is just depressing. If their board has any balls at all about doing the right thing they'd fire both Dantonio and Izzo and then resign themselves. They need a PSU type house cleaning but even more so. That to me is about all that would do it.

I can't disagree, of course. It just makes one question how "sincere" any "feel-good" stuff is. What's next, finding out The Wave has some ulterior motive? It just sucks.

Maybe one place to start is to just go back to freshman ineligibility, but giving the fifth year automatically (unlike previously, where there was no "automatic" fifth year). Make the freshman year about concentrating on academic and social adjustment. Discard the crap notion of "window of opportunity".

Hell, for every kid that leaves a school after three years, there's a "feel-good" story about some 25-year old who decided to "give it one last shot" after working as a garbage man or bell-hop or bartender. The average 18-year old doesn't "need" to play his first year any more than the average college student has a "need" to map out a career path before he/she ever arrives on campus.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Some call it "progress". Some would say the road to Hell is paved with "good intentions".

The primrose path.

 

[Adam]

Dad of 6 kids. 3 girls. Larry was in the room with parents.

Im as deligent as any parent. 3 kids are adults. Some of the things I heard about later I am shocked at. You cant monitor all of it.

I agree w your standards. I will say that until you have multiple kids graduate into adulthood to not be so quick to criticize. Parents of 1 kid can feel way over confident or incompetent based one child and neither one be accurate. There are worthless parents though. Mine were. You sound like a great dad and that is terrific.

The parents who demanded their daughter aplogize to Larry had issues she alluded to but wouldnt discuss. When Larry was sentenced and led off there was mild applause and lots of hugging. That particular girl looked lost and had no one to hug her. It was so sad.

Im really not arguing with you. With 6 kids on any certain day I can feel really good or bad as a parent based on one kid if that were my only child on a given day. Some of based on the child and some my based on my strengths and weaknesses as a parent.

I certainly understand your point. I applaud your deep introspection.

When I said the parents were culpable I meant that a majority of the parents did not believe their own children. If they had they could have brought fire and brimstone down on Larry and MSU which could of ended this man's reign of terror much sooner.

I also believe that they are partially culpable for allowing the status quo to be 1 on 1 examinations. I can't say with certainty as I have no daughters of that age, but I can't imagine I would ever be ok with an adult examining my child alone. Let alone a man examining my blossoming daughter with no supervision. The recipe of that just cooks up disaster.

 

[HawkGold]

I certainly understand your point. I applaud your deep introspection.

When I said the parents were culpable I meant that a majority of the parents did not believe their own children. If they had they could have brought fire and brimstone down on Larry and MSU which could of ended this man's reign of terror much sooner.

I also believe that they are partially culpable for allowing the status quo to be 1 on 1 examinations. I can't say with certainty as I have no daughters of that age, but I can't imagine I would ever be ok with an adult examining my child alone. Let alone a man examining my blossoming daughter with no supervision. The recipe of that just cooks up disaster.

I've not seen that the majority didn't believe their children. They may have been upset and not want to go back or be difficult about it.

Abusers are so damn good at it. Oft the abuse does actually enjoy it. It's a part of the process. Or they don't know how to express what they are feeling as they have no point of reference. It's very complicated. Abusers also play with the mind on direct threats to family or the child. Or it's about a secret. Likely for most they didn't know. Some did know and the parents did complain but it went nowhere. Also the families were isolated and couldn't/didn't compare notes. MSU and the Team DID discourage some families from reporting it.

What is missed in this is that teen boys who are abused by females. have all kinds of problems and maybe worse that girls including those who are abused by female teachers. Jokes are oft made about that and teen boys are considered "lucky" if the teacher is "hot". Those boys are some of the most impacted.

Humans are difficult to understand.

 

[lightning1]

I will answer in 2 fold.

1st: My daughter is grade school age so I can't speak for raising a college aged daughter. That said, No nobody disarms me. I believe that every person on earth is capable of pure evil. I treat them as such.

2nd: It is not my opinion that the parents should of been in these exam rooms. I'm saying there should be multiple medical staff. Not just Larry, and not even Larry and 1 other staffer. There needs to be 3 people. It is proven that a trinity is much harder to corrupt or intimidate. People find courage when others share the same burden. While 1 person may not have the fortitude to stand against the evil alone they are often empowered by having others to lean on. It is my opinion that this should be the minimum standard for examining boys and girls throughout college age.

This^. I'm in the exam room for all of my children's medical visits, until recently. But my sons are in high school and they are big young men.

 

[Adam]

I've not seen that the majority didn't believe their children. They may have been upset and not want to go back or be difficult about it.

Abusers are so damn good at it. Oft the abuse does actually enjoy it. It's a part of the process. Or they don't know how to express what they are feeling as they have no point of reference. It's very complicated. Abusers also play with the mind on direct threats to family or the child. Or it's about a secret. Likely for most they didn't know. Some did know and the parents did complain but it went nowhere. Also the families were isolated and couldn't/didn't compare notes. MSU and the Team DID discourage some families from reporting it.

What is missed in this is that teen boys who are abused by females. have all kinds of problems and maybe worse that girls including those who are abused by female teachers. Jokes are oft made about that and teen boys are considered "lucky" if the teacher is "hot". Those boys are some of the most impacted.

Humans are difficult to understand.

I understand the difficulties facing the parents of the abused. I know they did not have access to the abundance of evidence as to the severity of the situation. No matter, not a single one of them hired a private investigator. None of them went to the media. Obviously most of the parents did not believe it to be true, because if they had I can't imagine come hell or high water that they would have stopped breathing fire until the man was ruined.

 

[Adam]

This^. I'm in the exam room for all of my children's medical visits, until recently. But my sons are in high school and they are big young men.

I agree some boys do not need the same protections that our young girls need. People do expect boys to be better equipped to deal with such problems. However it is not a guarantee. There are many cases of molestation against boys under 20 that results in severe physiological damage. It really is more of a matter of the individuals resiliency.

For example I know a woman well who was gang raped at a college party. Within a few weeks she had recooperated physically and emotionally. The defendants attorney litterally tried to argue that her composure at the trial was proof that she was not attacked like she claimed. Luckily her attackers were all brought to justice. This is the biggest part of the recovery process.

One thing that we often overlook is the damage of having the bravery to accuse your attackers and to then have people call you a liar and not to see justice done. That is why these University administrators that actively cover this stuff up are just as bad of monsters. They might as well be doing the sexual assaulting themselves.

 

[HawkGold]

This is a tough watch. One of the MSU players involved in the MSU controversy. I challenge anyone to watch these and make sense of it and have the right answers.

 

[HawkGold]

This^. I'm in the exam room for all of my children's medical visits, until recently. But my sons are in high school and they are big young men.

Not looking to argue about this. However, you really don't understand abuse and abusers.

 

[DDThompson]

I understand the difficulties facing the parents of the abused. I know they did not have access to the abundance of evidence as to the severity of the situation. No matter, not a single one of them hired a private investigator. None of them went to the media. Obviously most of the parents did not believe it to be true, because if they had I can't imagine come hell or high water that they would have stopped breathing fire until the man was ruined.

And most of them believed the experts/professionals that this action was a “normal procedure”.

Nope. Not me or my wife. No 1-1 visits with any of our children for any reason for any kind of checkup. Never. And certainly not a bare hand. and the doctors’ offices always had a nurse in the office too — to protect the doctor as much as my kid.

And then nearly every one of the medical professionals either did no reporting of Nasser’s 1-1 bare hand procedure and/or took his word after being told not to have 1-1 checkups and to use a glove instead of verifying.

Nasser appears to be the only one with malicious intent; almost everyone else has varying levels of malfeasance.

The whole thing reeks to high heaven.

 

[Adam]

This is a tough watch. One of the MSU players involved in the MSU controversy. I challenge anyone to watch these and make sense of it and have the right answers.

Assuming that Aidren Payne is actually guilty of the accusations. The saddest thing would be that, that innocent little girl spent her only years on this earth worshiping someone capable of such vile behavior.

 

[HawkGold]

Assuming that Aidren Payne is actually guilty of the accusations. The saddest thing would be that, that innocent little girl spent her only years on this earth worshiping someone capable of such vile behavior.

Somebody, ESPN or MSU is going down on this. The credibility of the social worker employee who is at the center of this is being attacked. That will be the center of the bigger battle.

this is the center of ground zero: http://www.espn.com/watch/collections/20/e-60

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I will answer in 2 fold.

1st: My daughter is grade school age so I can't speak for raising a college aged daughter. That said, No nobody disarms me. I believe that every person on earth is capable of pure evil. I treat them as such.

2nd: It is not my opinion that the parents should of been in these exam rooms. I'm saying there should be multiple medical staff. Not just Larry, and not even Larry and 1 other staffer. There needs to be 3 people. It is proven that a trinity is much harder to corrupt or intimidate. People find courage when others share the same burden. While 1 person may not have the fortitude to stand against the evil alone they are often empowered by having others to lean on. It is my opinion that this should be the minimum standard for examining boys and girls throughout college age.

I'm surprised there isn't a policy or standard that requires a third person or some kind of safeguard.

Sadly, I've come to realize that there are people capable of some pretty vile stuff. But the one I can never wrap my brain around is children...you have to be really messed up to do something horrible to a helpless child and not feel guilt or remorse.

Forcing a women against her will is never...acceptable. Make no mistake. But I do shake my head when I hear stories of a girl going back to a room with multiple men and then things going badly. I have a daughter and we talked with her early and often about being in charge of herself and not accepting any treatment from a boy (or anyone) that she does not want. The second part of that discussion was being smart about the situations she puts herself in, as that is something she is responsible for and can control. I have no doubt she's been in uncomfortable situations...it happens to virtually all women at some point. Fortunately she's avoided the really bad ones. I'd likely be one of those guys who snaps and goes after the perp.

 

[lightning1]

Not looking to argue about this. However, you really don't understand abuse and abusers.

Saying that I'm in my kids medical exam rooms = I don't understand abuse or abusers? That's a curious take. Are you suggesting that I wouldn't know that the doctor was molesting my children right in front of me?

 

[Adam]

Saying that I'm in my kids medical exam rooms = I don't understand abuse or abusers? That's a curious take. Are you suggesting that I wouldn't know that the doctor was molesting my children right in front of me?

Lol. I'm guessing here but I assumed he meant the part about your boys being big young men. While it might be true that it wouldn't be an issue for your boys doesn't necessarily mean that all boys are capable of dealing with something like that on their own.