MSU problems might be just starting

1hawkeye1 said:
Wow, just watched the ESPN special on this. It looks bad, bad, bad, for msu. Football and bb players accused of gang rapes and coaches sweeping it under the rug.

I thought pedo state should've gotten the hammer. They didn't. We all know the list of schools cheating with under the table money, fake classes, strippers for recruits, and on and on. The NCAA has shown no ability to do ANYTHING to discipline these programs. Makes me wanna puke.
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It's going to be bad (or good depending on which side of the coin you are on) for a lot of universities.
 
Fryowa said:
This could be a death penalty situation for the basketball and football teams. If something like this isn’t worthy of that, then what is? It’s surely a million times worse than what SMU did back in the day.

If that would happen, the two sports that make probably 99% of the revenue for the athletic department are toast, and the entire athletics program is toast. And then how does MSU justify staying in the B1G?
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Well of course athletics is heavy focal point of today's world, but MSU is a large land grant university that has been and is responsible for millions of man hours spent in research and pioneering scientific advancement. They rightfully have a place in the B1G as a school alone.

That said I believe that the message needs to be sent loud and clear. Athletics and entertainment do not trump higher learning and the basic liberties of human beings. MSU needs to have their entire athletic department shut down. The NCAA should terminate their contract for breech. They should have to have a 2 year expulsion from NCAA competition as a result. At which time they could re apply to rejoin the NCAA under a special contract with many hoops to jump through. I believe this should have happened to PSU and Baylor. These schools are guilty of crimes against humanity. This is not cheating. This is not a victimless crime. These schools have knowingly destroyed human lives. It is downright shameful that as a species we could be so scientifically advanced yet still so fundamentally flawed in basic human decency.
 
pythagoras said:
That was never said. Stop making shit up. Go back to what you quoted and what I quoted you on and critically think about what I was saying.
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Oh Eric. You were the one that randomly brought up Baylor. Enlighten me as to your point then.
 
Fryowa said:
This could be a death penalty situation for the basketball and football teams. If something like this isn’t worthy of that, then what is? It’s surely a million times worse than what SMU did back in the day.

If that would happen, the two sports that make probably 99% of the revenue for the athletic department are toast, and the entire athletics program is toast. And then how does MSU justify staying in the B1G?
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first this, then this, then this and then that. sounds a bit like the animal house court scene.
JUMP-TO-CONCLUSIONS-MAT.jpg


And I've told you a billion times not to exagerate!!
 
NCHawker said:
first this, then this, then this and then that. sounds a bit like the animal house court scene.
JUMP-TO-CONCLUSIONS-MAT.jpg


And I've told you a billion times not to exagerate!!
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Hmm...If I can’t exaggerate then I guess I’ll jump to a conclusion.

So...you’re saying that covering up rape isn’t a million times worse than paying players under the table...

Can we go with 950,000 times worse?
 
Adam said:
Well of course athletics is heavy focal point of today's world, but MSU is a large land grant university that has been and is responsible for millions of man hours spent in research and pioneering scientific advancement. They rightfully have a place in the B1G as a school alone.

That said I believe that the message needs to be sent loud and clear. Athletics and entertainment do not trump higher learning and the basic liberties of human beings. MSU needs to have their entire athletic department shut down. The NCAA should terminate their contract for breech. They should have to have a 2 year expulsion from NCAA competition as a result. At which time they could re apply to rejoin the NCAA under a special contract with many hoops to jump through. I believe this should have happened to PSU and Baylor. These schools are guilty of crimes against humanity. This is not cheating. This is not a victimless crime. These schools have knowingly destroyed human lives. It is downright shameful that as a species we could be so scientifically advanced yet still so fundamentally flawed in basic human decency.
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I meant sports. Not demolishing the school.
 
Fryowa said:
I meant sports. Not demolishing the school.
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Well then absolutely they should be kicked out of sports. This shouldn't need to be done by the B1G though. The NCAA should be the ones who do it.

If MSU would go full scale cover up for a gymnastics molester Lord only knows the bodies they would have buried for Basketball and Football. I don't see how this isn't a lack of "institutional control".
 
16 MSU football players have been accused of rape (I'm guessing past players?) Dantonio say's he will not step down. If this info is correct, he will be forced out eventually.
 
You know...the more I think about it. I like the way Kirk Ferentz runs the Iowa program. Certainly you can't foresee how every kid is going to handle college and the fishbowl of CFB...but it's clear KF instills family, respect, and responsibility in his players. I've been impressed with how these kids handle themselves in public, in the press, and in their personal relationships.

Sure, you have a DWI or two occasionally, and that's serious, believe me...but we aren't hiding the behavior that's going on at MSU. I know it's a recruiting line, but I believe KF is teaching a lot more than football. Ask his graduated players.
 
CP87 said:
I hope OTL never visits Iowa campus. I would like to think we are cleaner (I am not so naive to think clean), but it does make you wonder what would get turned up if people started asking the tough questions.
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You are as high as a kite. The media was here, it already happened. They found all of the terrible violations against women. They have moved on. We peudo-passed our test. Even a "clean" athletics program can have "isms"
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
You know...the more I think about it. I like the way Kirk Ferentz runs the Iowa program. Certainly you can't foresee how every kid is going to handle college and the fishbowl of CFB...but it's clear KF instills family, respect, and responsibility in his players. I've been impressed with how these kids handle themselves in public, in the press, and in their personal relationships.

Sure, you have a DWI or two occasionally, and that's serious, believe me...but we aren't hiding the behavior that's going on at MSU. I know it's a recruiting line, but I believe KF is teaching a lot more than football. Ask his graduated players.
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Well Michigan State is one of those...they've passed iowa argument....programs. it's clear to see what you have to do to win. Take on players that do what they want. We won't accept that type of culture. I agree.
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
You are as high as a kite. The media was here, it already happened. They found all of the terrible violations against women. They have moved on. We peudo-passed our test. Even a "clean" athletics program can have "isms"
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That did cross my mind that the microscope has already been turned our way with the recent Athletic Dept trial. I am not sure if it is exactly the same, but you are probably right that if anything too unsavory was to be found, it would have come up.

I am not sure if many on here have read the Stewart Mandel column regarding MSU and Dantonio, but I thought this passage was a good one:

The common thread with both Nassar and the incidents described here is the veil of secrecy in which the university apparently operated. Unfortunately, it’s not specific to Michigan State. Too many schools and athletic departments prioritize their reputations over transparency, or place the protection of their cash cow athletics teams over the protection of female students.
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Iowa's athletic department has had its own transparency issues, but hopefully not regarding anything as serious as student safety.
 
EstronHawkKing said:
16 MSU football players have been accused of rape (I'm guessing past players?) Dantonio say's he will not step down. If this info is correct, he will be forced out eventually.
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I don't think it is the number of incidents that will do him in, but rather the response to these incidents. The culture of misogyny and victim-blaming does not seem to be on the scale of Briles and Baylor, but the Athletic Dept clearly handled these things internally and kept them out of normal disciplinary channels. The effects were likely the same as the Baylor situation: student-athletes felt immune to repercussions, and victims felt powerless to pursue justice.
 
Just to play devil's advocate here, ESPN's report seems to have been somewhat sensationalized, as of those 16 cases, most of them had been dealt with by the school and authorities appropriately. That being said, MSU absolutely needs to allow an independent investigation to happen.

I was equally surprised by Izzo's involvement. I knew Dantonio was a scumbag, but I used to think Izzo was one of the "good guys" of college basketball. Just a terrible situation.
 
BVHawk95 said:
Just to play devil's advocate here, ESPN's report seems to have been somewhat sensationalized, as of those 16 cases, most of them had been dealt with by the school and authorities appropriately. That being said, MSU absolutely needs to allow an independent investigation to happen.

I was equally surprised by Izzo's involvement. I knew Dantonio was a scumbag, but I used to think Izzo was one of the "good guys" of college basketball. Just a terrible situation.
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Of course the report is sensationalized. 16 sexual assaults is a high number in the first place. Let alone now noone in their right mind believes that MSU handled them properly. The victims were likely trivialized and the offenders likely never saw justice.

Like others have said. You can't control these kids to make sure that assaults and rapes don't happen, but you sure as hell can make sure the offenders are treated like the criminals that they are.

Iowa is not a convent. We have had our share of rotten apples, but the difference is we cut the kids loose immediately. We allow them to face the cold winds of the justice system without any university protection. Alford learned this the hard way. In the last 20 years for both basketball and football I can only remember 5 public cases of such. That is stark comparison to the dozens alleged against MSU.

I would say Iowa is much closer to towing the proverbial line and MSU is on the other end of the spectrum.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Never thought that folks would have to pay others to educate what should be common sense to their kids... But that's where we have evolved to as a society. It's so crazy. What's worse is I don't think it'd matter. Not one bit. Most folks know not to cheat, steal, assault, etc etc etc yet do it all anyway. I wish it would be as simple as just teaching youngsters but if you give them the freedom to run around on their own at college unsupervised this crap will still happen... It's just individual selfishness/narcissism. Only us as individuals can change those things about ourselves...
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Yeah, some University "education program" isn't going to stop this stuff. Our society is going downhill and the number of low quality people and people with "alternate moral standards" is increasing.
 
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