Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[deanvogs]

Southern U were conference champions, conference tournament champions and played in the NCAA tournament. Iowa has been 0-3 in those categories in what is it now 7 years?? Southern U lost to #1 seed Gonzaga by 8 and held them to 64 points which was their SECOND lowest scoring game the entire season next to the 63 they scored in a loss @ Butler. That's a total of 35 games for Gonzaga. Southern's best year in the history of their program. Yeah I'd day they were an INCREDIBLE defensive team comparative to their competition...CLEARLY! Sit and think before you write this crap you're as uneducated as they come. Let me know when Iowa bball achieves anything of significance. In the meantime, I guess just continue to boast about your conference "rivals" accomplishments.

You are the gift that keeps on giving. Just when I think you have said the most ignorant thing possible, you find a way to top it. Keep on thinking that Southern U, Bucknell, Stony Brook, NJIT are all top 10 defenses. This is according to you and your end all beat all stat of Opp FG %, those were all top 10 defenses according to your ignorant BB analysis.

I will stick with Ken Pom's tempo free stats, that tell more of the story, that shows the top 10 D's last year being: Louisville, Wisconsin, Florida, Georgetown, Syracuse, Kansas, Michigan St., St. Louis, Ohio St., and Oregon.

 

[deanvogs]

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

Foreverdouchy asked me to explain to him how the BIG plays better defense than the Big12, because he pointed to one stat......Opp. FG %. Never said it wasn't a valid stat to look it. Yet if you think that THIS STAT ALONE tells how good an overall D is, then your BB knowledge is on par with Foreverdouchy. Anyone who watches any BB can see the D in the BIG and Big East is much, much better than the D in the Big12. Not only that, but the tempo free stats point that out (yes you need to look at tempo, because if you just hold the ball, of course the scores are lower).

 

[BryceC]

Ken Pomeroy's New Stat Affirms That Quick Offense Is Good Offense | Bleacher Report

Interesting new stat from pomeroy - the longer teams hold the ball the less efficient they are. With the pace/physical play of the big 10 that will undoubtedly increase the efficiency stats.

The discussion about last years game is boring. Iowa State played terrible and was a different team when book went to the bench and Niang started in his place. Iowa didn't play particularly well either. Iowa State improved and created a résumé deemed worthy of the ncaas and iowa did not. Iowa State will have a very different looking team this year and last years game will have little bearing on this one, IMO.

 

[hawkfan33]

Ken Pomeroy's New Stat Affirms That Quick Offense Is Good Offense | Bleacher Report

Interesting new stat from pomeroy - the longer teams hold the ball the less efficient they are. With the pace/physical play of the big 10 that will undoubtedly increase the efficiency stats.

The discussion about last years game is boring. Iowa State played terrible and was a different team when book went to the bench and Niang started in his place. Iowa didn't play particularly well either. Iowa State improved and created a résumé deemed worthy of the ncaas and iowa did not. Iowa State will have a very different looking team this year and last years game will have little bearing on this one, IMO.

Improved, faced weaker in conference competition, call it what you want.

 

[Cydkar]

Improved, faced weaker in conference competition, call it what you want.

I'll call it an NCAA bid. I'll then spot you the 'N' and the best you can come with is 2 more letters.

 

[BryceC]

Improved, faced weaker in conference competition, call it what you want.

Iowa State played terrible the entire noncon. If you wanted to take the time to read my posts from that timeframe you would see iowa was the least of my concerns. Iowa State also played like crap against Yale, umkc, etc.

And that weaker conf competition included a sweep over a team that absolutely curbstomped iowa, so which is it?

 

[deanvogs]

Iowa State played terrible the entire noncon. If you wanted to take the time to read my posts from that timeframe you would see iowa was the least of my concerns. Iowa State also played like crap against Yale, umkc, etc.

And that weaker conf competition included a sweep over a team that absolutely curbstomped iowa, so which is it?

We really don't have to compare similar opponents to see who was better between Iowa and Iowa St., as they played head to head.

There is no doubt that ISU benefited from playing in a weaker conference, there is no shame in admitting that. You can't control how tough your conference is, and ISU honestly did more than enough to make the NCAA field. I would argue that Iowa did so as well, but I'm not on the committee, and didn't have a vote.

 

[Stanzi]

We really don't have to compare similar opponents to see who was better between Iowa and Iowa St., as they played head to head.

There is no doubt that ISU benefited from playing in a weaker conference, there is no shame in admitting that. You can't control how tough your conference is, and ISU honestly did more than enough to make the NCAA field. I would argue that Iowa did so as well, but I'm not on the committee, and didn't have a vote.

Cyclone logic:

When Iowa makes a bowl game it's because they play in the weak Big 10 conference, and not because they have a good team. When Iowa State makes the NCAA tournament it's because they're an awesome team, and the reality of a weak Big 12 gets completely ignored.

 

[eye44hawk41]

So what seed will we get this year in the tourney. I am think no higher than 5.

 

[Section136]

So what seed will we get this year in the tourney. I am think no higher than 5.

Obvious doosh Clown troll is obvious.

You so clever putting 44-41 in your username.

 

[hawkfan33]

Iowa State played terrible the entire noncon. If you wanted to take the time to read my posts from that timeframe you would see iowa was the least of my concerns. Iowa State also played like crap against Yale, umkc, etc.

And that weaker conf competition included a sweep over a team that absolutely curbstomped iowa, so which is it?

Well you only beat one team that won an NCAA game all year, and that was FGCU in the non-conf. So did you improve?

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Isu got better isu got better blah blah blah ba freaking blah. When marble caught fire t the end of the year we got a lot better as well and I can tell you we will be even better this year as well so you can take that farking gem and stick it riiiiight up the ol clown a hole. And the whole isu beat balor thing is clown logic as well because their end of year team wasn't the same team you played either. Fact of the matter is next years game will be two different teams. We are going to be better for a number of reasons (see my previous posts in this thread) and you lose almost all your production from last year. Even with that said, no one knows who the winner will be next year. I do know that we spanked your little tooshie last year so suck on that hawkeye hog. Scoreboard little brother, scoreboard.

 

[BryceC]

Cyclone logic:

When Iowa makes a bowl game it's because they play in the weak Big 10 conference, and not because they have a good team. When Iowa State makes the NCAA tournament it's because they're an awesome team, and the reality of a weak Big 12 gets completely ignored.

The big 12 was weak and I never denied it. I made my point poorly - perhaps trying to explain the context of an entire season spanning 4 months by looking at one game on one day. It's not like Baylor beat iowa at the end of the year because the schedule got easier outside the big 10.

Iowa State lost to a lot worse teams than iowa last year and beat some better teams than iowa as well.

Iowa benefits from a weak big 10 in football and Iowa State benefits in basketball. Nothing wrong with either. How much of a benefit it is in basketball is dubious - Iowa State didn't make the tourney because they beat up on Texas tech. They made it because they beat osu, Baylor, etc. I think we learned last year bad losses aren't nearly as important as good wins.

As far as iowa goes they did get a lot better. I'll go on the record as saying I would put iowa around a 6 seed this year. And if iowa makes the tourney and Iowa State is at home I won't thump my chest on here. Deal?

 

[hawkfan33]

The big 12 was weak and I never denied it. I made my point poorly - perhaps trying to explain the context of an entire season spanning 4 months by looking at one game on one day. It's not like Baylor beat iowa at the end of the year because the schedule got easier outside the big 10.

Iowa State lost to a lot worse teams than iowa last year and beat some better teams than iowa as well.

Iowa benefits from a weak big 10 in football and Iowa State benefits in basketball. Nothing wrong with either. How much of a benefit it is in basketball is dubious - Iowa State didn't make the tourney because they beat up on Texas tech. They made it because they beat osu, Baylor, etc. I think we learned last year bad losses aren't nearly as important as good wins.

As far as iowa goes they did get a lot better. I'll go on the record as saying I would put iowa around a 6 seed this year. And if iowa makes the tourney and Iowa State is at home I won't thump my chest on here. Deal?

That's debatable. KenPom has Iowa ranked higher than every team you beat last season. Also why the hell would you be thumping your chest on here if Iowa made the NCAA and ISU didn't?

 

[ddiction]

Totally disagree with you here. The points per possession is a good one, but you can't look at just one stat and determine how good a team's defense is.

When it comes to it ppp, shooting %, defensive rebound vs. offensive allowed per game and 2nd chance points given up. If you suck at rebounding a team can shoot 33%, but get orpg then shooting % means nothing.

We can debate this the rest of the off-season, but there is no real good way to determine who is better by comparing team stats. Head to head on a neutral floor is probably the best. Points allowed per game is probably the worst because teams like Wisconsin are in the top 10 it seems every year and get a reputation for being a good defensive team, but they just take the air out of the ball.

The thing about comparing who teams play and what conference means diddly poo, if a conference dominates another conference head to head...does that mean something? Just a lot of typing about conferences to get someone to respond I think.

Honestly, what matters the most is guard play in college basketball. In looking at Iowa vs. ISU in that regard, it seems to be a push at this point for me. It could easily be swayed if Palo, Kane, Morris and SDW, moreso the freshman, are the real deal. Iowa has its best guards for almost a decade, but I still question some things and that will be another time. I think Iowa's frontcourt is going to be the difference in the game. Also, I really believe Iowa is going to continue to improve guarding the 3-pt line and still make it real tough for opponents with their overall length. Iowa's depth is more proven, but that can change by the time the teams play.

I am looking forward to a great game and have the Hawks winning by less than 10, but in control from the start.

The effect of rebounding is already factored into the points per possession stat, because Kenpom's PPP formula does not treat an offensive rebound as the start of a new possession. Therefore, a low-percentage-shooting team that is excellent at rebounding can have a similar PPP to a high-percentage-shooting team that sucks at rebounding. It also factors in the increased scoring value of a lower-percentage three vs. a higher-percentage two, and it penalizes turnover-prone teams and poor free-throw-shooting teams. It precisely measures the sum total of everything you do on offense, and eliminates the subjectivity of people over- and under-estimating the effects of various factors of the game.

 

[tm3308]

That's debatable. KenPom has Iowa ranked higher than every team you beat last season. Also why the hell would you be thumping your chest on here if Iowa made the NCAA and ISU didn't?

I think he meant that ISU had better wins than Iowa had. I think that's probably a fair assertion. We were close all the time, but we didn't lay claim to many real good wins.

 

[YellowSnow]

Cyclone logic:

When Iowa makes a bowl game it's because they play in the weak Big 10 conference, and not because they have a good team. When Iowa State makes the NCAA tournament it's because they're an awesome team, and the reality of a weak Big 12 gets completely ignored.

I think this is a valid point.

However, we played everybody in the conference twice... even the "good" teams. Heck, we played Kansas three times. Last year you played all of the "bad" teams twice and the "good" ones only once on your conference schedule.

This is a chicken and egg argument. Yes, the B10 was a tougher conference overall. I agree... but the schedule you guys drew was pretty weak relative to your conference mates. Do you disagree?

 

[deanvogs]

I think this is a valid point.

However, we played everybody in the conference twice... even the "good" teams. Heck, we played Kansas three times. Last year you played all of the "bad" teams twice and the "good" ones only once on your conference schedule.

This is a chicken and egg argument. Yes, the B10 was a tougher conference overall. I agree... but the schedule you guys drew was pretty weak relative to your conference mates. Do you disagree?

This made me curious, lets take a look at this regular season conference play:


Elite teams Iowa played: Indiana, Michigan, Indiana,
Elite teams ISU played: Kansas, Kansas


Very good teams Iowa played: Michigan St, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Wisconsin
Very good teams ISU played: Okie st, Kansas st, okie st, Kansas st


Tourney teams Iowa played: Minny, Illinois, Minny
tourney teams ISU played: Oklahoma, Oklahoma


So ISU played 4 tourney teams for 8 total games
Iowa played 7 tourney teams for 10 total games


So even though Iowa missed some of the tough teams twice, they still had a slightly harder schedule than ISU did, even though ISU played all teams twice.

 

[volhawk50]

I think this is a valid point.

However, we played everybody in the conference twice... even the "good" teams. Heck, we played Kansas three times. Last year you played all of the "bad" teams twice and the "good" ones only once on your conference schedule.

This is a chicken and egg argument. Yes, the B10 was a tougher conference overall. I agree... but the schedule you guys drew was pretty weak relative to your conference mates. Do you disagree?

I do not disagree. But be careful with throwing "all" around, or else it looks like you think Illinois was a "good" team while Indiana, Michigan State, and Wisconsin were "bad" teams.

 

[ForeverIowan]

We really don't have to compare similar opponents to see who was better between Iowa and Iowa St., as they played head to head.

There is no doubt that ISU benefited from playing in a weaker conference, there is no shame in admitting that. You can't control how tough your conference is, and ISU honestly did more than enough to make the NCAA field. I would argue that Iowa did so as well, but I'm not on the committee, and didn't have a vote.

Wow you're a real genius do you know that? Head-to-to head is all that matters?

Villanova was better than Louisville last year they beat them at home by 9. Indiana State,Wake Forest FGCU were all better than Miami they beat them head-to-head! Illinois was better than Indiana! Penn State was better than Michigan they beat them at home HEAD-TO-HEAD. TCU was better than Kansas. I mean head-to-head is all that matters!!

The only single thing that Fran has done better than Fred is win ONE I repeat ONE head-to-head game.

1.) Fred is 2-1 vs. Iowa head-to-head. Two of the three games have been played in Iowa City.
2.) Fred is 2/3 in making the NCAA tournament. Fran is 0/3.
3.) Fred has signed better recruiting classes than Fran.
5.) Fred's name is coming up for several open head coaching positions including the BOSTON CELTICS which he said no to. Fran will be on the hot seat if this season is a failure.
4.) Fred has won more regular season games than Fran in each of his first three seasons. 3 for 3

ISU under Fred:
Year 1:16-15
Year 2: 22-9
Year 3: 21-10

Iowa under Fran:
Year 1:11-19
Year 2:16-15
Year 3:20-11

Hey though congrats you got your one night in over three years time. You're right though Iowa basketball is a downright juggernaut they are getting after it! I mean the ONLY thing Fran has done better than Fred in over three years is that he won ONE HEAD-TO-HEAD game. What an accomplishment!