Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[ForeverIowan]

That is what happens when you go up against teams that actually play defense. Don't get me wrong, I like watching the Big12 and the pace of the games is much better.....yet not much real defense is played in that league.

The Big 12 had 3 teams ranked in the top 20 Field-Goal Percentage Defense last year while the Big Ten had zero. KU was #1 in the entire nation! And yet the Big Ten plays such better defense. Please explain this to me. Just because the Big 12 plays a faster/up-tempo game with more possessions it doesn't mean they aren't playing defense. KU and Okie State were incredible defensively last year. Field-Goal Percentage Defense - NCAA.com

 

[ForeverIowan]

This game is pretty easy to map out..... Hawks are going to be a stronger team in the early months of the season because of the number of returning starters. Clones will have boost from playing at home in Ames. This game is going to come down to guard play. Both squads return some solid players in the post but the clones will have an all new guard court. If Fran can get a scheme drawn up to ruffle the feathers of the new ISU guards the hawks will create turnovers and allow guys like white to run the floor and get to the rim. If ISU keeps turnovers town this one will be tight going into the later minutes.

ISU will not be as young as you might think. I predict Bubu Palo (senior) will be starting early in the year at PG. The Marshall transfer DeAndre Kane (senior) will start as well at a guard spot. Melvin Ejim (senior) and Georges Niang (sophomore) are also the givens at forward. I'm guessing Matt Thomas (freshman) will be the 5th starter at guard. Yes, all predictions of course. If that holds true ISU actually has more experience in the starting lineup than Iowa. Granted it may take that experience awhile to gel together as a team. We will see.

 

[deanvogs]

The Big 12 had 3 teams ranked in the top 20 Field-Goal Percentage Defense last year while the Big Ten had zero. KU was #1 in the entire nation! And yet the Big Ten plays such better defense. Please explain this to me. Just because the Big 12 plays a faster/up-tempo game with more possessions it doesn't mean they aren't playing defense. KU and Okie State were incredible defensively last year. Field-Goal Percentage Defense - NCAA.com

Hey Troll.....who cares what BAD teams shoot against you (yes the BIG12 was not all that good overall last year).

Who actually keeps the opponents from scoring on them? BIG had 2 teams in the top 25 in PPG allowed, and 3 of the top 30. The Big East had 5 in the top 25. The Big 12 had ZERO. The BIG and Big East are defensive leagues, the Big 12 is not.

If you want to argue tempo....fine. KenPom tempo free stats, had the BIG as having 5 of the top 25 teams defensively (Iowa was at #22). The Big 12 had 2 (Kansas and Okie St.O)...the next Big 12 team is at #60 and that is Baylor.

Anyone with half a brain already knows this, just by watching BB. The Big 12 is a fun conference to watch if you ask me. They let the players play, and the tempo is better than BIG or Big East games. Yet if you actually think that the D is better, or even good in the Big 12, it proves you are either a HUGE TROLL, or you are a fool. Which are you forever?

 

[BrueCrew3]

... if you actually think that the D is better, or even good in the Big 12, it proves you are either a HUGE TROLL, or you are a fool. Which are you forever?

I'd say both.

GO HAWKS!!!

 

[sportstalent]

I'd say both.

GO HAWKS!!!

A Frooll...

 

[ForeverIowan]

Hey Troll.....who cares what BAD teams shoot against you (yes the BIG12 was not all that good overall last year).

Who actually keeps the opponents from scoring on them? BIG had 2 teams in the top 25 in PPG allowed, and 3 of the top 30. The Big East had 5 in the top 25. The Big 12 had ZERO. The BIG and Big East are defensive leagues, the Big 12 is not.

If you want to argue tempo....fine. KenPom tempo free stats, had the BIG as having 5 of the top 25 teams defensively (Iowa was at #22). The Big 12 had 2 (Kansas and Okie St.O)...the next Big 12 team is at #60 and that is Baylor.

Anyone with half a brain already knows this, just by watching BB. The Big 12 is a fun conference to watch if you ask me. They let the players play, and the tempo is better than BIG or Big East games. Yet if you actually think that the D is better, or even good in the Big 12, it proves you are either a HUGE TROLL, or you are a fool. Which are you forever?

I swear I've never dealt with a more ignorant person in years. Any single person who knows the slightest bit about the game of basketball knows that shooting percentage is head and heels the single most important statistic in the game. EFFICIENCY! How many points do you score per possession as compared to your opponent.

I don't give two craps how many points a game Big Ten teams gave up. The majority of the BIG teams let the shot clock get under ten seconds before they even start their offense. Far fewer possessions a game = far fewer points. That's pretty hard to figure out isn't it? In football...according to you...Iowa had the 31st best defense in the country last year yet were lucky to win 4 games. They gave up the 31st fewest PPG. Was their defense some powerhouse last year or is this stat deceptive because they are so D slow on offense? You tell me...

Back to basketball...If Iowa was the "22nd best" defensive team in the country where in the world were they during the NCAA tournament? I guess their offense was just that downright horrible? Honestly asking you to explain this. I by no means am claiming that the Big 12 is or isn't some kind of defensive powerhouse but get off your high horse if you honestly don't think KU and Okie St. would have been two of the top three or four defensive teams in the BIG. Jeff Withey and Marcus Smart were unreal on the defensive end.

 

[deanvogs]

I swear I've never dealt with a more ignorant person in years. Any single person who knows the slightest bit about the game of basketball knows that shooting percentage is head and heels the single most important statistic in the game. EFFICIENCY! How many points do you score per possession as compared to your opponent.

I don't give two craps how many points a game Big Ten teams gave up. The majority of the BIG teams let the shot clock get under ten seconds before they even start their offense. Far fewer possessions a game = far fewer points. That's pretty hard to figure out isn't it? In football...according to you...Iowa had the 31st best defense in the country last year yet were lucky to win 4 games. They gave up the 31st fewest PPG. Was their defense some powerhouse last year or is this stat deceptive because they are so D slow on offense? You tell me...

Back to basketball...If Iowa was the "22nd best" defensive team in the country where in the world were they during the NCAA tournament? I guess their offense was just that downright horrible? Honestly asking you to explain this. I by no means am claiming that the Big 12 is or isn't some kind of defensive powerhouse but get off your high horse if you honestly don't think KU and Okie St. would have been two of the top three or four defensive teams in the BIG. Jeff Withey and Marcus Smart were unreal on the defensive end.

HAHAHAHAHA.....I produced TEMPO FREE STATS, and you claim the tempo free stats are flawed because of tempo? Do you have a brain in your head? It is TEMPO FREE STATS. Get it, do I need to speak slower........ T E M P O F R E E S T A T S.

At least you have proven yourself a fool in this last post. HAHAHA, arguing tempo when I used tempo free stats.....HAHAHAHAHAHA......Derp, shooting % tells us who the best D is.....HAHAHAHA. According to you the second best defense in the land is Southern U......HAHAHAHAHA

BTW Southern U is ranked the 87th D by Ken Pom and tempo free stats.

 

[hawkfan33]

HAHAHAHAHA.....I produced TEMPO FREE STATS, and you claim the tempo free stats are flawed because of tempo? Do you have a brain in your head? It is TEMPO FREE STATS. Get it, do I need to speak slower........ T E M P O F R E E S T A T S.

At least you have proven yourself a fool in this last post. HAHAHA, arguing tempo when I used tempo free stats.....HAHAHAHAHAHA......Derp, shooting % tells us who the best D is.....HAHAHAHA. According to you the second best defense in the land is Southern U......HAHAHAHAHA

BTW Southern U is ranked the 87th D by Ken Pom and tempo free stats.

Reading is hard for ISU fans LOL

 

[ForeverIowan]

HAHAHAHAHA.....I produced TEMPO FREE STATS, and you claim the tempo free stats are flawed because of tempo? Do you have a brain in your head? It is TEMPO FREE STATS. Get it, do I need to speak slower........ T E M P O F R E E S T A T S.

At least you have proven yourself a fool in this last post. HAHAHA, arguing tempo when I used tempo free stats.....HAHAHAHAHAHA......Derp, shooting % tells us who the best D is.....HAHAHAHA. According to you the second best defense in the land is Southern U......HAHAHAHAHA

BTW Southern U is ranked the 87th D by Ken Pom and tempo free stats.

Southern U were conference champions, conference tournament champions and played in the NCAA tournament. Iowa has been 0-3 in those categories in what is it now 7 years?? Southern U lost to #1 seed Gonzaga by 8 and held them to 64 points which was their SECOND lowest scoring game the entire season next to the 63 they scored in a loss @ Butler. That's a total of 35 games for Gonzaga. Southern's best year in the history of their program. Yeah I'd day they were an INCREDIBLE defensive team comparative to their competition...CLEARLY! Sit and think before you write this crap you're as uneducated as they come. Let me know when Iowa bball achieves anything of significance. In the meantime, I guess just continue to boast about your conference "rivals" accomplishments.

 

[hawkfan33]

Southern U were conference champions, conference tournament champions and played in the NCAA tournament. Iowa has been 0-3 in those categories in what is it now 7 years?? Southern U lost to #1 seed Gonzaga by 8 and held them to 64 points which was their SECOND lowest scoring game the entire season next to the 63 they scored in a loss @ Butler. That's a total of 35 games for Gonzaga. Southern's best year in the history of their program. Yeah I'd day they were an INCREDIBLE defensive team comparative to their competition...CLEARLY! Sit and think before you write this crap you're as uneducated as they come. Let me know when Iowa bball achieves anything of significance. In the meantime, I guess just continue to boast about your conference "rivals" accomplishments.

Southern was 87th in the country in defense, they lost to Tulane, North Carolina Central, TCU, Alcorn St and Arkansas Pine Bluff to name a few. But sure they were a defensive juggernaut. You should probably try to shorten your posts, the more you type, the more ignorant you look.

Also I love how you bash B10 teams for playing at a slower tempo but are effusive with your praise for a Southern team that was 226th in the nation in tempo. Hmmm could that have had anything to do with them holding Gonzaga to 63 points? But I'm sure you're well aware of the pitfalls of using one game sample sizes as you obviously have extensive knowledge of advanced basketball statistics. But hey keep on trollin!

 

[ForeverIowan]

Southern was 87th in the country in defense, they lost to Tulane, North Carolina Central, TCU, Alcorn St and Arkansas Pine Bluff to name a few. But sure they were a defensive juggernaut. You should probably try to shorten your posts, the more you type, the more ignorant you look.

Reading comprehension must not be your thing. Must have missed the part where I said COMPARATIVE TO THEIR COMPETITION. I guess conference champs, conference tournament champs and taking a #1 seed to the final minutes isn't an accomplishment at all. I'm sure they were disappointed with the season. Never called them a juggernaut there pal. Comparative to the teams they were playing...indeed though they were. Explaining their high defensive ranking.

 

[Campbell]

HAHAHAHAHA.....I produced TEMPO FREESTATS, and you claim the tempo free stats are flawed because of tempo? Do you have a brain in your head? It is TEMPO FREE STATS. Get it, do I need to speak slower........ T E M P O F R E E S T A T S.

At least you have proven yourself a fool in this last post. HAHAHA, arguing tempo when I used tempo free stats.....HAHAHAHAHAHA......Derp, shooting % tells us who the best D is.....HAHAHAHA. According to you the second best defense in the land is Southern U......HAHAHAHAHA

BTW Southern U is ranked the 87th D by Ken Pom and tempo free stats.

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

 

[hawkfan33]

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

Points per possession is better. You might force a team to shoot a low percentage but if you can't rebound and foul the **** out of them, you aren't necessarily a good defensive team.

 

[ForeverIowan]

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

Don't even bother wasting your breath with that kid.

 

[ddiction]

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

Why on earth would opponents' shooting percentage be any more immune to the creampuff-scheduling effect than any other stat?

I do agree that points per possession and points allowed per possesion are the best gauges of offense and defense.

 

[sportstalent]

I was with you until this part. The best way to evaluate a defense is opponents' shooting pct. Points allowed is such a skewed number because most teams play so many creampuffs for their first 10-12 games. Opponent's offense efficiency could also be argued as the best method.

Totally disagree with you here. The points per possession is a good one, but you can't look at just one stat and determine how good a team's defense is.

When it comes to it ppp, shooting %, defensive rebound vs. offensive allowed per game and 2nd chance points given up. If you suck at rebounding a team can shoot 33%, but get orpg then shooting % means nothing.

We can debate this the rest of the off-season, but there is no real good way to determine who is better by comparing team stats. Head to head on a neutral floor is probably the best. Points allowed per game is probably the worst because teams like Wisconsin are in the top 10 it seems every year and get a reputation for being a good defensive team, but they just take the air out of the ball.

The thing about comparing who teams play and what conference means diddly poo, if a conference dominates another conference head to head...does that mean something? Just a lot of typing about conferences to get someone to respond I think.

Honestly, what matters the most is guard play in college basketball. In looking at Iowa vs. ISU in that regard, it seems to be a push at this point for me. It could easily be swayed if Palo, Kane, Morris and SDW, moreso the freshman, are the real deal. Iowa has its best guards for almost a decade, but I still question some things and that will be another time. I think Iowa's frontcourt is going to be the difference in the game. Also, I really believe Iowa is going to continue to improve guarding the 3-pt line and still make it real tough for opponents with their overall length. Iowa's depth is more proven, but that can change by the time the teams play.

I am looking forward to a great game and have the Hawks winning by less than 10, but in control from the start.

 

[Campbell]

Points per possession is better. You might force a team to shoot a low percentage but if you can't rebound and foul the **** out of them, you aren't necessarily a good defensive team.

I don't disagree with you but I feel like we're splitting hairs here. If I'm a coach I want my guys challenging every shot, period, so I feel like opponent's shooting pct would be the measuring stick I would want to use if I'm a coach. Sure, there can be some skewing with total season pct due to terrible opponents, but on a game to game basis I think it would be an accurate assessment.

 

[sportstalent]

Reading comprehension must not be your thing. Must have missed the part where I said COMPARATIVE TO THEIR COMPETITION. I guess conference champs, conference tournament champs and taking a #1 seed to the final minutes isn't an accomplishment at all. I'm sure they were disappointed with the season. Never called them a juggernaut there pal. Comparative to the teams they were playing...indeed though they were. Explaining their high defensive ranking.

Keep bringing Mid-Major arguments to a discussion on Power Six teams and talk about how they did in their conference of stalwarts. Also, the No. 1 seed they played was a mid-major and didn't fare all that well in the tourney.

I like you also throw out that Iowa hasn't been to the NCAA and ISU has. That is great for ISU, Iowa has chosen a different path to build their program than ISU. It has worked so far and Fiddle is bringing in some quality freshman, but relying on JUCO's and one and done Seniors will not equal long term success. Rolo has done what he has needed short term and it is good to celebrate that. Will you stop with the silliness of throwing that into a conversation when Iowa makes the NCAA tournament. Iowa was the most broken program in the Power 6 conferences when Fran took over. Say what you want about the state of the ISU program, but it was not the environment that Fran walked into.

 

[sportstalent]

I don't disagree with you but I feel like we're splitting hairs here. If I'm a coach I want my guys challenging every shot, period, so I feel like opponent's shooting pct would be the measuring stick I would want to use if I'm a coach. Sure, there can be some skewing with total season pct due to terrible opponents, but on a game to game basis I think it would be an accurate assessment.

The thing is; 33 puts on a real idea of what actually happens in college a lot more today. Teams don't play good defense in a lot of cases, but the officiating is terrible and players are getting away with more. Consequently, the offense is suffering, particularly shooting %'s, but one thing doesn't change is that they still suck in other facets of the game.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Keep bringing Mid-Major arguments to a discussion on Power Six teams and talk about how they did in their conference of stalwarts. Also, the No. 1 seed they played was a mid-major and didn't fare all that well in the tourney.

I like you also throw out that Iowa hasn't been to the NCAA and ISU has. That is great for ISU, Iowa has chosen a different path to build their program than ISU. It has worked so far and Fiddle is bringing in some quality freshman, but relying on JUCO's and one and done Seniors will not equal long term success. Rolo has done what he has needed short term and it is good to celebrate that. Will you stop with the silliness of throwing that into a conversation when Iowa makes the NCAA tournament. Iowa was the most broken program in the Power 6 conferences when Fran took over. Say what you want about the state of the ISU program, but it was not the environment that Fran walked into.

First off, it was your genius buddy Deanvogs who brought Southern into the conversation, not me. He's a smart one. Secondly, I agree Fran walked into a horrible situation. So did Fred. ISU and Iowa were both in the dumps. Say what you will about the transfer strategy. It WORKED! They went to back-to-back NCAA tourneys. A third is likely on the way. They've become known around the country for their explosive offense and exciting brand of play. Fred knew he had to win right away to land the quality of recruits he desired. Freshman recruits Georges Niang, Naz Long, Matt Thomas, Monte Morris & Sherron-Dorsey Walker are the future of the program. The 2014 class is looking promising as well with Custer already signed and Fred in the running with several top 100 recruits. Fred may take a solid transfer here and there in the future to fill a serious need but for the most part his plan worked to perfection and the transfer era will likely slowly ride off into the sunset. Making the NCAA tournament is not as easy as you might think. Congrats to Fran and Iowa if they make it happen but it is hardly a certainty for a program who hasn't been there in 7 years.