Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[ForeverIowan]

This made me curious, lets take a look at this regular season conference play:


Elite teams Iowa played: Indiana, Michigan, Indiana,
Elite teams ISU played: Kansas, Kansas


Very good teams Iowa played: Michigan St, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Wisconsin
Very good teams ISU played: Okie st, Kansas st, okie st, Kansas st


Tourney teams Iowa played: Minny, Illinois, Minny
tourney teams ISU played: Oklahoma, Oklahoma


So ISU played 4 tourney teams for 8 total games
Iowa played 7 tourney teams for 10 total games


So even though Iowa missed some of the tough teams twice, they still had a slightly harder schedule than ISU did, even though ISU played all teams twice.

Hey try becoming a tourney team yourself and being an upper tier team in your conference and maybe your schedule will start to look easier. Ever think about that? Let's compare a team like Baylor, Texas or West Virginia (middle to lower tier conference teams) to Iowa. Baylor, West Virginia and Texas all played 10 conference games vs. NCAA teams compared to 10 NCAA conference games for Iowa. The worse you are the harder your conference schedule looks. Simple logic that a 4th grader can figure out.

 

[dave3912]

Hey try becoming a tourney team yourself and being an upper tier team in your conference and maybe your schedule will start to look easier. Ever think about that? Let's compare a team like Baylor, Texas or West Virginia (middle to lower tier conference teams) to Iowa. Baylor, West Virginia and Texas all played 10 conference games vs. NCAA teams compared to 10 NCAA conference games for Iowa. The worse you are the harder your conference schedule looks. Simple logic that a 4th grader can figure out.

So does that logic apply to ISU football?

 

[ForeverIowan]

So does that logic apply to ISU football?

Certainly does. I agree 100%. ISU needs to get over the hump and become an upper tier team in their conference and that schedule will start to look a little easier. Basketball and football are apples and oranges. A northern football program competing against primarily all southern teams and ISU has virtually zero history is going to have a much tougher time than a BIG basketball team turning the corner. Plain and simple.

 

[dave3912]

Certainly does. I agree 100%. ISU needs to get over the hump and become an upper tier team in their conference and that schedule will start to look a little easier. Basketball and football are apples and oranges. A northern football program competing against primarily all southern teams and ISU has virtually zero history is going to have a much tougher time than a BIG basketball team turning the corner. Plain and simple.

That is your opinion of which is tougher to do. Iowa plays in a tougher basketball conference than ISU does in football

 

[tm3308]

Hey try becoming a tourney team yourself and being an upper tier team in your conference and maybe your schedule will start to look easier. Ever think about that? Let's compare a team like Baylor, Texas or West Virginia (middle to lower tier conference teams) to Iowa. Baylor, West Virginia and Texas all played 10 conference games vs. NCAA teams compared to 10 NCAA conference games for Iowa. The worse you are the harder your conference schedule looks. Simple logic that a 4th grader can figure out.

Let me get this straight. The argument has just gone from "Iowa had a weak Big 10 schedule" because they played some of the top teams just once, therefore making ISU's schedule tougher because the played more of the Big 12's best (which were fewer and not as good as the Big 10's best), to "Iowa's schedule seemed harder because ISU was better in their (weaker) conference"?

Which is it? Because ISU was a solid team and was in the top tier of the Big 12, but the Big 10 was considerably tougher than the Big 12. Iowa State's schedule was easier because they play in an easier conference, not because they were significantly better than Iowa. Outside of Kansas, the Big 12 got **** on by the Big 10.

 

[hawkfan33]

Here's a fun fact about conference schedules:

Iowa played 8 regular season conference games against teams which won an NCAA game.
Iowa State played 2.

Hmmm...who had a tougher conference schedule.

 

[deanvogs]

Let me get this straight. The argument has just gone from "Iowa had a weak Big 10 schedule" because they played some of the top teams just once, therefore making ISU's schedule tougher because the played more of the Big 12's best (which were fewer and not as good as the Big 10's best), to "Iowa's schedule seemed harder because ISU was better in their (weaker) conference"?

Which is it? Because ISU was a solid team and was in the top tier of the Big 12, but the Big 10 was considerably tougher than the Big 12. Iowa State's schedule was easier because they play in an easier conference, not because they were significantly better than Iowa. Outside of Kansas, the Big 12 got **** on by the Big 10.

Foreverdouchy gets PWNED all the time, that he just changes the argument. First it was that the Big12 is a better defensive conference than BIG, so I PWNED him on that. Now he moves the bar to weaker conference, Fred Vs Fran, or whatever reach for that particular day? Not sure how he got there, but he did. You gotta understand that this is all fools can do when they get bitched slapped like foreverdouchy does all the time by me. I mean he really tried to argue that Southern U, Soney Brook, Bucknell, and NJIT were all top 10 Defenses......True Story..... Field-Goal Percentage Defense - NCAA.com

Par for the course for this fool and troll. I usually wish guys like this would get banned, but since I PWNED him so often that I consider him more my *****, that I actually want him to stick around.

 

[deanvogs]

Wow you're a real genius do you know that? Head-to-to head is all that matters?

Villanova was better than Louisville last year they beat them at home by 9. Indiana State,Wake Forest FGCU were all better than Miami they beat them head-to-head! Illinois was better than Indiana! Penn State was better than Michigan they beat them at home HEAD-TO-HEAD. TCU was better than Kansas. I mean head-to-head is all that matters!!

The only single thing that Fran has done better than Fred is win ONE I repeat ONE head-to-head game.

1.) Fred is 2-1 vs. Iowa head-to-head. Two of the three games have been played in Iowa City.
2.) Fred is 2/3 in making the NCAA tournament. Fran is 0/3.
3.) Fred has signed better recruiting classes than Fran.
5.) Fred's name is coming up for several open head coaching positions including the BOSTON CELTICS which he said no to. Fran will be on the hot seat if this season is a failure.
4.) Fred has won more regular season games than Fran in each of his first three seasons. 3 for 3

ISU under Fred:
Year 1:16-15
Year 2: 22-9
Year 3: 21-10

Iowa under Fran:
Year 1:11-19
Year 2:16-15
Year 3:20-11

Hey though congrats you got your one night in over three years time. You're right though Iowa basketball is a downright juggernaut they are getting after it! I mean the ONLY thing Fran has done better than Fred in over three years is that he won ONE HEAD-TO-HEAD game. What an accomplishment!

Iowa was a better team than ISU last year. Similar records (wow, ISU had one whole extra win!!), Iowa played in a tougher conference, and if they would have scheduled tougher non conference games, they would have made the NCAA. Oh yeah, and they did beat them, we got that.

 

[deanvogs]

The worse you are the harder your conference schedule looks. Simple logic that a 4th grader can figure out.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......Foreverdouchy just made my sig!!! This is clown logic EVERY SINGLE YEAR FOR FOOTBALL. We have a top 10 schedule, we have to play soooooo many tough teams.....it is sooooo hard for us.....HAHAHAHAHA, you actually stumbled your way into the correct answer. You don't hear Texas, Oklahoma, Okie St., Kansas St., Baylor, or any other Big12 team cry about the schedule like ISU fan does It is simply because ISU is soooooo BAD.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Dude, the big was completely loaded this year and we took every team (except Michigan and one other game I forgot who) to a one to two posession game. Don't even bring that clown shite in here saying you had the tougher schedule and played better teams. That's a freaking joke man. We started our conference with Indiana, Michigan, Michigan state, etc. the big had several different teams ranked number one and top ten all year long. Oh yeah, plus we beat you. Remember that?

 

[BrueCrew3]

Wow you're a real genius do you know that? Head-to-to head is all that matters?

Villanova was better than Louisville last year they beat them at home by 9. Indiana State,Wake Forest FGCU were all better than Miami they beat them head-to-head! Illinois was better than Indiana! Penn State was better than Michigan they beat them at home HEAD-TO-HEAD. TCU was better than Kansas. I mean head-to-head is all that matters!!

The only single thing that Fran has done better than Fred is win ONE I repeat ONE head-to-head game.

1.) Fred is 2-1 vs. Iowa head-to-head. Two of the three games have been played in Iowa City.
2.) Fred is 2/3 in making the NCAA tournament. Fran is 0/3.
3.) Fred has signed better recruiting classes than Fran.
5.) Fred's name is coming up for several open head coaching positions including the BOSTON CELTICS which he said no to. Fran will be on the hot seat if this season is a failure.
4.) Fred has won more regular season games than Fran in each of his first three seasons. 3 for 3

ISU under Fred:
Year 1:16-15
Year 2: 22-9
Year 3: 21-10

Iowa under Fran:
Year 1:11-19
Year 2:16-15
Year 3:20-11

Hey though congrats you got your one night in over three years time. You're right though Iowa basketball is a downright juggernaut they are getting after it! I mean the ONLY thing Fran has done better than Fred in over three years is that he won ONE HEAD-TO-HEAD game. What an accomplishment!

WOW!! Can I have some of what you're smoking??

You say you can't compare Iowa and ISU strictly head to head and then you do that with Fran and Fred. So let's go through your points:
1) True .. for now .. (See below .. .. )
2) Again .. True .. (See below .. .. )
3) Not true. I'll put Fran's recruits as seniors up against Fred's as seniors any day.
5) (Huh?!? ) So what? Fred has the NBA history and pedigree. (And Rolodex) Of course the NBA is going to watch him and contact him. That doesn't make him a better coach. Heck, Rick Pitino failed miserably in the NBA. By your logic, Fred is a better coach than Pitino. (I know .. you never said that, your logic infers it.
4) True .. But .. (See below .. .. )

Now to points 1, 2, and 4. Here's what you're waiting for. Fred took over a team that was at the very least marginal. He had some talent and recruited JuCos and transfers with aplomb. With the experience the players had, he was able to right the ship quicker. But, since YOU brought up wins, they did take a step backwards last year. (Insert first half of sarcastic smiley here.)

Fran took over a team devoid of talent and chose to recruit true freshmen (with one exception). It was going to take time to rebuild and the Hawks have gotten significantly better in each of his first three years record wise. (Insert second half of sarcastic smiley here.) Plus he pulled one of the best recruiting classes in the country 2 years ago. That started paying dividends last year and will continue to do so.

Hey .. don't get me wrong. My brother is an ISU fan, and I grew up in the mid 70's when ISU football was better than Hawkeye football. I was an ISU fan. Still am .. except when they play the Hawks. (Long story .. .. ) I'm glad to see Fred doing the job he's doing.

My point is that it's ludicrous to compare Fran and Fred on records alone. They walked into totally different situations. Each has done a good/great job given what they had to work with.

But for my money, I'll take Fran's team. Just my 2¢ .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!

 

[volhawk50]

Hey try becoming a tourney team yourself and being an upper tier team in your conference and maybe your schedule will start to look easier. Ever think about that? Let's compare a team like Baylor, Texas or West Virginia (middle to lower tier conference teams) to Iowa. Baylor, West Virginia and Texas all played 10 conference games vs. NCAA teams compared to 10 NCAA conference games for Iowa. The worse you are the harder your conference schedule looks. Simple logic that a 4th grader can figure out.

That's flawed logic that you can make up on the spot when you're feeling like a big shot. So if you tie for 4th out of 10, and we finish 6th alone out of 12, you're an upper tier team but we aren't? Please explain. Nebraska played conference 12 games against tournament teams, and not because they played every team twice like the XII does. Let's compare Baylor, West Virginia, or Texas to Iowa and see that they played 10 games against 5 tournament teams, and we played 10 games against 7 tournament teams because our schedule was gentle compared to other Big Ten teams. You're not going to convince anyone anywhere that the XII was stronger last year than the Big Ten, because it simply wasn't.

 

[volhawk50]

My point is that it's ludicrous to compare Fran and Fred on records alone. They walked into totally different situations. Each has done a good/great job given what they had to work with.

True, and they went about their situations completely differently, as you mentioned. For that reason it may be ludicrous to compare them until we've seen a couple more years.

 

[Knight78]

blah blah blah......

5.) Fred's name is coming up for several open head coaching positions including the BOSTON CELTICS which he said no to. Fran will be on the hot seat if this season is a failure.

blah blah blah......

Dude, that was a joke put forward by Niang who admitted it:
https://twitter.com/GeorgesNiang20/status/356796959798996993

He was on a list of potential candidates but was never approached.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Foreverdouchy gets PWNED all the time, that he just changes the argument. First it was that the Big12 is a better defensive conference than BIG, so I PWNED him on that. Now he moves the bar to weaker conference, Fred Vs Fran, or whatever reach for that particular day? Not sure how he got there, but he did. You gotta understand that this is all fools can do when they get bitched slapped like foreverdouchy does all the time by me. I mean he really tried to argue that Southern U, Soney Brook, Bucknell, and NJIT were all top 10 Defenses......True Story..... Field-Goal Percentage Defense - NCAA.com

Par for the course for this fool and troll. I usually wish guys like this would get banned, but since I PWNED him so often that I consider him more my *****, that I actually want him to stick around.

Hmm pretty positive you're either in the 6th or maybe 7th grade. Does your Mother know what you're up to? PWNED, B slapped, douchy and expletives all over. Solid. I'm sure the Iowa alumni on here appreciate the class representation. You win you seem like a great person.

 

[ForeverIowan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......Foreverdouchy just made my sig!!! This is clown logic EVERY SINGLE YEAR FOR FOOTBALL. We have a top 10 schedule, we have to play soooooo many tough teams.....it is sooooo hard for us.....HAHAHAHAHA, you actually stumbled your way into the correct answer. You don't hear Texas, Oklahoma, Okie St., Kansas St., Baylor, or any other Big12 team cry about the schedule like ISU fan does It is simply because ISU is soooooo BAD.

Not too difficult to figure out. Who had the tougher conference schedule in basketball...Kansas or TCU? Which team had the tougher conference schedule RPI? Any logical person can connect the dots there.

 

[deanvogs]

Hmm pretty positive you're either in the 6th or maybe 7th grade. Does your Mother know what you're up to? PWNED, B slapped, douchy and expletives all over. Solid. I'm sure the Iowa alumni on here appreciate the class representation. You win you seem like a great person.

And your mother is proud that you are a fool and a troll? Does she only recently give you access to the computer?

I treat posters as they deserve. You are a fool and a troll, so I troll you back. I don't do that to any other poster, just you. Many ISU poster on here are solid, you are just a fool.

 

[deanvogs]

Not too difficult to figure out. Who had the tougher conference schedule in basketball...Kansas or TCU? Which team had the tougher conference schedule RPI? Any logical person can connect the dots there.

You are correct, and any logical person comes to the same conclusion......that the teams with the toughest schedules in the conference when you all play the same schedule, is the crappiest team.

Conclusion that Forever has reached??? ISU football is one of the bottom teams in the conference.

 

[tm3308]

Not too difficult to figure out. Who had the tougher conference schedule in basketball...Kansas or TCU? Which team had the tougher conference schedule RPI? Any logical person can connect the dots there.

The Big 12 didn't have as lowly-rated bottom teams as the Big Ten, which helped the overall RPI of ISU conference schedule. But Iowa would have been just fine playing ISU's conference slate.

The top half of Iowa's schedule didn't look hard because they weren't good. It looked hard because they played 10 games against tournament teams in the conference season, most of whom were ranked. That's over half of the conference schedule played against high-level competition. That's not considered easy, even for teams like Kansas or MSU.

 

[ForeverIowan]

And your mother is proud that you are a fool and a troll? Does she only recently give you access to the computer?

I treat posters as they deserve. You are a fool and a troll, so I troll you back. I don't do that to any other poster, just you. Many ISU poster on here are solid, you are just a fool.

6:30 am post for you on a Saturday morning? Wow good job buddy did you finish your paper route ok?