Howe: Hawkeyes Should Be Allowed to Peacefully Protest During Anthem

[HuckFinn]

I'm sorry, but this is a total strawman. The best school in my area is a charter that a bunch of really smart Muslim dudes set up with a strong focus on STEM and no sports programs to save money and focus 100% on academics and the arts. Admission to charters in South Carolina is 100% by open lottery. People can attend the lotteries and they are live-streamed. The diversity is in line with the community at large, so the charters are 20-25% black.

I'm trying to send my boy to the Mandarin immersion charter school. That one is also massively oversubscribed in the lottery and we didn't get into PK. You've simply been brainwashed into an anti-choice position by your years of service to the public system. Like any monopolist, you want to advocate for the maintenance of the monopoly.

I told you I have no problem with open enrollment. It has been successful. Kid wants to go to a suburban Milwaukee school district instead of his present district, he can go. As to vouchers, since you are a big advocate for a private sector approach, then you have a choice. Not happy with one product, choose another and pay for it. Our Nation was founded on the principle of free public education for all. We all participate by paying taxes. We cannot afford to open another system, which will draw money from public education. The result will be poorly funded public schools while you elitist jerks put your kids in neat and tidy privates.

But, of course, since you begin with the premise that I am a brainwashed elite, my views after a lot of education and experience and strong commitment to young people don’t really matter.
Nice try. Who is the one who is brainwashed?

 

[Hawk1960]

I agree completely, and I will go a little further by saying once awareness is reached, more protesting will produce a negative impact on the end result because to many it just looks like a bunch of bitching and moaning and complaining and that turns people off.

We all need to realize at this moment that not everyone that claims to be sympathetic to racial injustice actually wants to fix it. That is the key here in order to accomplish some sort of positive reform. Like I said in another post, there are a lot of politicians that are using this platform to define the political power structure, and in the end have no interest in fixing anything because they know they can take advantage of this issue whenever they want to. And to the people that are comfortable smiling to your face and sticking you in the ass at the same time, that is true power, to control and manipulate a defining sector of people and the people have no idea it is happening. It is the ultimate scam, to promise a group of people that they will help, never come through, and then do it over and over and over again. It is the old adage of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me", so at some point those that are being used need to take accountability for it. Only, and I mean only, if they want true change.

5 star post right there. Well done.

This thread is one of the best in HN history in my opinion.

 

[RobHowe]

@RobHowe - are you able to reach out to James & Eubanks? I’m white. Grew up in Iowa. Iowa College of Pharmacy alum in 2007. Voted for Obama in both elections. Assuming the university culture has changed little since graduation, I would simply like to know where perhaps I’m falling short as a white male. Clearly there’s a problem rooted in their experiences at Iowa that I simply cannot identify with because I do not walk in their shoes and of course never played in the program. But I do sincerely want to know so I can do better as an individual. Thank you.

Sorry for the delayed response. Had dinner with some of my fellow sportswriters last night. Needed it.

I've shared this LINK previously on the board. It's a non-profit started by a friend, who earned a doctorate from Iowa. It is a great resource and also can point you toward other great resources. There are many other resources out there if folks really want to gain a better understanding.

I appreciate you asking.

 

[HuckFinn]

No, I mentioned it like 15 pages ago and had the privilege of paying absurd property taxes on a condo in Crook County, Illinois. I get it. The South does not have that model. It is illegal. The funding model in the South is completely opposite of what it is in the North. Most money comes from the State to prevent the exact issue you are describing.

You are so focused on navel gazing and patting yourself on the back that you completely fail to see the issue. I know the Milwaukee school district isn't at fault. It's virtue signalling people like you who are. You need to demand that they implement busing and a funding model more heavily reliant on the state, not property taxes. At least you have found a convenient scapegoat to assuage your guilt.

Good grief. The great southern funding system spends less on schools, has the lowest achievement levels, lowest graduation rates, poor teacher salaries. Maybe they should find a tax base to improve themselves.

Failing public schools. Boy, there is a sound bite for the ignorant. The public schools around our Nation are governed by local school boards. You elect them, or God forbid, you may even serve. If that is a monopoly, I guess I am really confused. Yes, there are State and Federal laws. The “golden rule” law wins. He who has the gold makes the rules. To blanket schools across the country as failing, you are not only ignoring the facts in total, but also, since the lowest achieving schools are in poverty stricken inner cities with high minority populations, you are just amplifying the racist mantra that kids of color are not very smart.
Nice try. So you want a voucher to subtract dollars for inner city public schools so they will get even worse. Wow.

I am going to block you after this exchange. You spend a lot of time pretending, or deluding yourself about how much you know, not to mention personal insults instead of reasoned responses. I guess if you went to a public school, it must have been a bad one. If you went to an elite private, it was even worse.

Not basing my block on a single exchange. You blather on about stuff consistently. To keep perspective, I have blocked idiots like Fry and a few others. There you go.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[okeefe4prez]

But, of course, since you begin with the premise that I am a brainwashed elite, my views after a lot of education and experience and strong commitment to young people don’t really matter.

I never called you elite, you are just a useful idiot for the elite. I know you have no problem with open enrollment. It is rationing a public good, which is a quality public education and it allows you to maintain completely segregated schools and put bananas in your ears and say all is well. This exchange has been useful, though, because there is a major problem across the north with segregated schools and you say "Nah, all is well, maintain the status quo." It makes me understand the frustration blacks must feel when white liberals in big cities piss on their shoes and tell them it is raining.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Failing public schools. Boy, there is a sound bite for the ignorant. The public schools around our Nation are governed by local school boards. You elect them, or God forbid, you may even serve. If that is a monopoly, I guess I am really confused.

Yes, the northern school systems are by definition a monopoly. You are forcing kids into one schooling option. The only nominal choice is for those who can afford to move to a better district. That is part of systemic racism.

 

[HuckFinn]

1) Your reply back to Okeefe sure sounded elitist to me, "I promised myself not to get in to a debate with people like you." Wow, why not just call him deplorable? I'll assume your elitist until you apologize to him.

2) All your fancy degrees and name dropping does not impress me in the least. I like results. You and I know American schools in general are failing and the biggest impact is with inner city kids. It's really disgraceful in my opinion. Among the OECD we are middle of the pack at best and the trend is not looking good either.

3) In your reply back to Okeefe you make an important point that I agree with, "one of the biggest variables is parental income." So why not give those parents
who don't have the income a simple voucher from the state and allow them to use it at a school of their choice?

4) You mention private schools are, "havens for lack of diversity". See item 3. Would that not make these private schools more diverse? Let's connect the dots here.


5) The way I look at a lot of things in life is to keep it simple, for goods and service there is a supplier and a customer. In the case of education, administrators and teachers in public education are a supplier and people like Okeefe and I along with millions of other parents are your customer base. If a parent believes his/her local school is not supplying me a quality product and good value why not give them the ability to make a better choice and choose a different supplier? Why allow a poorly performing school or district have a virtual monopoly with no other viable option for most parents? Choice, and the competition that comes with it, works very well in the private sector.

We've been making excuse and giving lip service to America's public education system far too long. Let's give these kids a chance in life. That my friend would be social justice.

I guess if you want to classify me as “elitist” go ahead. If describing the background of your views is elitist, then I guess you don’t like resumes’. Your insult #2 gets the same response.
The sound bite, “failing public schools” does not hold water. Yes, the inner city schools are struggling not because of high minority populations, but because of abject poverty, lack of decent jobs, high rents for sub standard housing, poor health care, and the list goes on. The racists love to promote failures in those schools so they can define people of color as less capable. Be careful about using the sound bite. You have some company you may not like.

Yeah, you guys love vouchers. So, state spending on public schools is diverted to vouchers, exacerbating the failure to adequately fund public schools. Nice try. There are a lot of us who do not approve of tax dollars going to religious based education. You want private, pay for it.
Now, plug in open enrollment. Kid from inner city school can go to a high achieving public school in the suburbs. That is available in many states, including Wisconsin.

The diversity related to private schools is a big joke. Tuition is still too high, privates are not required to enroll minorities, and they turn away kids with disabilities routinely. Again, nice try.

Public schools defined as a monopoly is another sound bite with little foundation. Ever hear of local school boards? Every community across our Nation has one. You could serve, you can vote for whomever you like on the ballot, and they will be the local banker, the local barber, the restaurant owner, whatever. Good grief! How is that a monopoly?

There are areas where private and public sector operational rules are very different. There was a big cry for a while about private sector entities were going to come in and improve schools and save lots of money. They all failed and went broke. They found out that in the private sector, if they got raw materials that were defective, they would send them back. They could not manipulate kids from all kinds of backgrounds the same way. Fail.

Our fathers throughout history knew that a free public education for all kids through the 12th grade was a foundation for an educated society. If you don’t believe in this basic truth, that is your choice. But, you had better be right.

Just so you will know, I have blocked Okeef. I do not need more of his blather. I am much more pleased with HN now that I am rid of Sirius, Fry, seepig, and a few others. I enjoy lively respectful controversy over sports. I just do not need the aggravation, and they simply do not add much of anything I am interested in.

I don’t generally disrespect your views. But, I think you are dead wrong on this one.

 

[SpiderRico]

Within that thread, James Daniels states that Hawkeye fans would rather go 7-5 with it's players standing than be B1G champs with them kneeling. I'm sorry, but that's bullshit, there's no other way to put it. And he knows it. It's a red herring meant to prove a point, but it's bullshit either way.

Are there SOME fans that feel that way? Sure there are. But to paint all Hawkeye fans with that broad brush is no different than others painting people of color with a broad brush. That shit needs to stop...on both sides.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Huge protest planned in D.C. tomorrow. The White House is beefing up security. Prayers for peace.

 

[Hawknigh]

Sorry for the delayed response. Had dinner with some of my fellow sportswriters last night. Needed it.

I've shared this LINK previously on the board. It's a non-profit started by a friend, who earned a doctorate from Iowa. It is a great resource and also can point you toward other great resources. There are many other resources out there if folks really want to gain a better understanding.

I appreciate you asking.

This seems like an non-inflammatory, very constructive approach to the majority culture reality.

 

[kicker22]

The diversity related to private schools is a big joke. Tuition is still too high, privates are not required to enroll minorities, and they turn away kids with disabilities routinely. Again, nice try.

I'm not trying to take the thread off topic, and don't have the background but in education that you do, but I question this. While I don't dispute the tuition argument, but the part about the "diversity related to private schools" being a big joke as well as private schools turning away kids with disabilities routinely I question and was hoping for a little more feedback with regards to your statement. Are you making this comparison across the board between private school's and public schools across the board or is it in comparison to urban/metro public schools.

I attended a small IA school and my wife did as well. We went the private school route because the local district offered very little that impressed us and due to our jobs we were unable to transport outside the district the go the open enrollment route. That said in terms of diversity My children have more minorities in their smaller classes then my wife and I did in our entire schools combined. And while they are not required to enroll minorities, I've quickly realized that if there's money involved private schools will very rarely turn families away and are always willing to assist with scholarships if a family can't afford it.

I was also curious about the "turning away kids with disabilities routinely part". Is it that Private School's are routinely turning disabled kids away or is a matter of disabled children are leaving the those schools because public schools actually provide a better learning environment for kids with disabilities. I'm referring to learning disabilities and not physical disabilities as I definitely feel private schools are lacking in terms of being handicap accessible. I only bring this up because some friends of ours who's son was in my oldest son's class (who were relatively new to the area) had actually pulled their son out of the private school and enrolled him in a public school outside in a neighboring district because they felt there were better programs available through the public school, despite the fact that they kept their older son enrolled in the private school and loved everything about it.

I don't want to come off as argumentative, but rather looking for some clarification or extended answer to your post as growing up I hated everything about private schools, but feel it's the one of the best decision I've ever made in terms of raising my kids and have never second guessed it for a minute.

 

[RobHowe]

This seems like an non-inflammatory, very constructive approach to the majority culture reality.

Fair enough. I'm pissed. And that's going to come out with my frustration. I won't apologize for that.

 

[Ree4]

Sorry to interrupt your discourse, but that’s fabulous. Never heard that one.

Say whaaaaat?

 

[Fryowa]

Say whaaaaat?

I'm sheltered, man. I don't get out much.

 

[peerok]

I guess if you want to classify me as “elitist” go ahead. If describing the background of your views is elitist, then I guess you don’t like resumes’. Your insult #2 gets the same response.
The sound bite, “failing public schools” does not hold water. Yes, the inner city schools are struggling not because of high minority populations, but because of abject poverty, lack of decent jobs, high rents for sub standard housing, poor health care, and the list goes on. The racists love to promote failures in those schools so they can define people of color as less capable. Be careful about using the sound bite. You have some company you may not like.

Yeah, you guys love vouchers. So, state spending on public schools is diverted to vouchers, exacerbating the failure to adequately fund public schools. Nice try. There are a lot of us who do not approve of tax dollars going to religious based education. You want private, pay for it.
Now, plug in open enrollment. Kid from inner city school can go to a high achieving public school in the suburbs. That is available in many states, including Wisconsin.

The diversity related to private schools is a big joke. Tuition is still too high, privates are not required to enroll minorities, and they turn away kids with disabilities routinely. Again, nice try.

Public schools defined as a monopoly is another sound bite with little foundation. Ever hear of local school boards? Every community across our Nation has one. You could serve, you can vote for whomever you like on the ballot, and they will be the local banker, the local barber, the restaurant owner, whatever. Good grief! How is that a monopoly?

There are areas where private and public sector operational rules are very different. There was a big cry for a while about private sector entities were going to come in and improve schools and save lots of money. They all failed and went broke. They found out that in the private sector, if they got raw materials that were defective, they would send them back. They could not manipulate kids from all kinds of backgrounds the same way. Fail.

Our fathers throughout history knew that a free public education for all kids through the 12th grade was a foundation for an educated society. If you don’t believe in this basic truth, that is your choice. But, you had better be right.

Just so you will know, I have blocked Okeef. I do not need more of his blather. I am much more pleased with HN now that I am rid of Sirius, Fry, seepig, and a few others. I enjoy lively respectful controversy over sports. I just do not need the aggravation, and they simply do not add much of anything I am interested in.

I don’t generally disrespect your views. But, I think you are dead wrong on this one.

Regarding your comment about the taxpayer having to pay for vouchers, if you eliminate the voucher and the parents can't afford to send their kid to a private school, where will the kid go to school? A public school that's where. Who pays for the public school? The taxpayer does. So what's the difference?

 

[Fryowa]

That shit needs to stop...on both sides.

You're completely wasting your time.

If you don't publicly agree with 100% of whatever Side A says you're branded by them as the enemy and will get cancelled, humiliated, and shamed.

If you don't publicly agree with 100% of whatever Side B says you're branded by them as the enemy and will get cancelled, humiliated, and shamed.

You. Will. Not. Win.

If you don't like looting you are instantly a bigoted racist who hates all minorities and is trying to divert and distract from the real problems of systemic racism and white privilege.

If you support protests you are instantly an anarchist hippie infiltrator dead set on burning the entire nation to the ground and desecrating the Constitution on your quest for communist rule.

There is no rational discourse allowed. Not even on this board. You are either Side A or Side B, and both of those sides have decided that tolerance of other viewpoints and discussion make them weak. And no one wants to get themselves sentenced to twitter outing and permanent cancellation. It's like prison...you pick a gang or you die, no exceptions. Even if you don't agree with everything that gang does.

Even worse--even bigger sub-human amphibian pieces of shit--are people who think that looting might not be a positive thing but yet agree that police brutality and racism are huge problems that need to be affected by change, because those worthless wastes of oxygen don't conform to either Side A or Side B. So those people are by default worthless organisms who should be tied to cinder blocks and thrown in the Missouri River.

Give it up, dude. You aren't going to win and the louder you scream the louder both sides are going to scream back at you. Just be content with being as good a person as you can and try to be more aware of what's wrong and how oppressed groups might see the world. Let the Sides yell at you, you sure as hell won't ever get either one to hear what you're saying anyway.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

You're completely wasting your time.

If you don't publicly agree with 100% of whatever Side A says you're branded by them as the enemy and will get cancelled, humiliated, and shamed.

If you don't publicly agree with 100% of whatever Side B says you're branded by them as the enemy and will get cancelled, humiliated, and shamed.

You. Will. Not. Win.

If you don't like looting you are instantly a bigoted racist who hates all minorities and is trying to divert and distract from the real problems of systemic racism and white privilege.

If you support protests you are instantly an anarchist hippie infiltrator dead set on burning the entire nation to the ground and desecrating the constitution on your quest for communist rule.

There is no rational discourse allowed. Not even on this board. You are either Side A or Side B, and both of those sides have decided that tolerance of other viewpoints and discussion make them weak. And no one wants to get themselves sentenced to twitter outing and permanent cancellation.

Even worse--even bigger sub-human amphibian pieces of shit--are people who think that looting might not be a positive thing but yet agree that police brutality and racism are huge problems that need to be affected by change, because those worthless wastes of oxegyn don't conform to either Side A or Side B. So those people are by default worthless organisms who should be tied to cinder blocks and thrown in the Missouri River.

Give it up, dude. You aren't going to win and the louder you scream the louder both sides are going to scream back at you. Just be content with being as good a person as you can and try to be more aware of what's wrong and how oppressed groups might see the world. Let the Sides yell at you, you sure as hell won't ever get either one to hear what you're saying anyway.

Well said, Bravo.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

I look at the flag, and I see a history of greatness and failure both. Liberty and freedom and slavery and Jim Crow. It's not one or the other, it's both. It's not the 1619 Project inaccurate version of history and it's not all white picket fences version of perfect history. The problem I have with players kneeling is that they never seem to acknowledge all the freedoms and opportunities they've been given, but only the injustices, some accurate, others not. Just once, could one of these athletes to acknowledge the positives about our country and how privileged their lives are because of the opportunities in our country? Is that too much to ask? Instead, it's all that the U.S. is irredeemably racist, cops are committing "genocide", etc. To an athlete who wants to kneel, preface what you're about to do by saying something positive. Then, kneel away.

 

[HuckFinn]

I'm not trying to take the thread off topic, and don't have the background but in education that you do, but I question this. While I don't dispute the tuition argument, but the part about the "diversity related to private schools" being a big joke as well as private schools turning away kids with disabilities routinely I question and was hoping for a little more feedback with regards to your statement. Are you making this comparison across the board between private school's and public schools across the board or is it in comparison to urban/metro public schools.

I attended a small IA school and my wife did as well. We went the private school route because the local district offered very little that impressed us and due to our jobs we were unable to transport outside the district the go the open enrollment route. That said in terms of diversity My children have more minorities in their smaller classes then my wife and I did in our entire schools combined. And while they are not required to enroll minorities, I've quickly realized that if there's money involved private schools will very rarely turn families away and are always willing to assist with scholarships if a family can't afford it.

I was also curious about the "turning away kids with disabilities routinely part". Is it that Private School's are routinely turning disabled kids away or is a matter of disabled children are leaving the those schools because public schools actually provide a better learning environment for kids with disabilities. I'm referring to learning disabilities and not physical disabilities as I definitely feel private schools are lacking in terms of being handicap accessible. I only bring this up because some friends of ours who's son was in my oldest son's class (who were relatively new to the area) had actually pulled their son out of the private school and enrolled him in a public school outside in a neighboring district because they felt there were better programs available through the public school, despite the fact that they kept their older son enrolled in the private school and loved everything about it.

I don't want to come off as argumentative, but rather looking for some clarification or extended answer to your post as growing up I hated everything about private schools, but feel it's the one of the best decision I've ever made in terms of raising my kids and have never second guessed it for a minute.

Yeah. Probably more generalities than I would have liked on my part. My only excuse is that the topic is broad and complex, probably not a discussion I should have brought toHN.

There are certainly good reasons for parents selecting private schools. I have no problem with that at all. My School Board and I invited local parochial school students to participate in co-curricular programs. Our actions were not uncommon across the state.

You are also correct about some privates waiving part of tuition costs for needy families.

As to students with disabilities, you are correct. Public’s have more resources than most privates. I have had some examples of parents not wanting their youngsters around “those kids”. Again, generalized. I do get annoyed when achievement “contests” are held by public school critics while privates are allowed to select their students. The fact is that nearly all of those arguments fall flat, since comparisons show no significant differences.

I can give you a list of the things I am very disappointed about in the public system. So, I know where the bodies are buried. At the same time, getting called by others an elitist, racist, defender of a failed school system, after 40 years of commitment to young people, I have a responsibility to correct some misconceptions. And yes, I was deeply offended.

I really do appreciate your comments. Thank you.