Howe: Hawkeyes Should Be Allowed to Peacefully Protest During Anthem

[Xerxes]

KF just freaking said he wants to have that convo. So which is it? Is he a liar or a racist?

This ain't gonna end well.

There are a lot of college football programs and NFL franchises that need to really think about their next move.

I respect team unity but anything other than individual choice with zero repercussions could tear a team apart. And if big time donors pull their money back, KF better publicly give them the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" speech.

 

[HuckFinn]

Think of how many 65 year-olds in this country have outdated views and are completely resisting to changing them. Do we really expect KF to be on exactly the same page as his players on this one?

He was clearly on a very different page, but he seems open to listen. It is impossible to know what is in a man's heart, and if he is listening as a self-serving means toward keeping his team and his job, or if he is truly open to listen and grow. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I think/hope that latter is true. And if that really is true, KF represents an extreme anomaly for 65-year olds across this country.

Edit: Some of what I wrote sounded like I was directing my criticism toward CP87. That was absolutely not the intent of my rant.

Interesting that you brought up senior citizens. Many of us woke in our teens, as we saw black people lynched, separate bathrooms and drinking fountains and lunch counters and hotels And poll taxes, and long forms to fill out if blacks wanted to vote, and white people my age murdered south of the Mason Dixon line. Oh, yeah. George Wallace with his segregated schools, which ended, sort of, but now has re-emerged in the form of property tax based educational funding. So, as my generation elected some strong politicians, change came about. You are welcome. BTW. Look at the photos on the news of the various right wing nut jobs and tell me they are not dominated by males who look to be in their thirties or forties. All born after 1980.

 

[kicker22]

Like the kneeling or not, it’s coming. This is the movement that is coming through our young people. It’s going to happen. Iowa fans need to accept kneeling, because Iowa football needs to be perceived as a safe place for young black men to learn and play. Good luck to Derek foster, kelvin bell or really any of the white coaches as well, recruiting in urban areas or in SEC country with the label as “Iowa the racist school who forbids kneeling”

I don't think it has anything to do with "accepting" because that makes it seem like we're simply going to allow it. I think I'd replace the word "accept" with embrace. I think its more a matter of welcoming them to take a stand and standing beside them as they do. And the perception of Iowa football is irrelevant in this case because this is about so much more than football.

 

[Jonrn]

There are a lot of college football programs and NFL franchises that need to really think about their next move.

I respect team unity but anything other than individual choice with zero repercussions could tear a team apart. And if big time donors pull their money back, KF better publicly give them the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" speech.

kirk needs to give the players freedom to protest however they want this season. If they want to kneel, go for it, if they want to where helmet stickers that say George Floyd instead of ANF go for it. The outrage will die down eventually and winning will smooth over the very few donors/boosters who may be upset

 

[Jonrn]

I don't think it has anything to do with "accepting" because that makes it seem like we're simply going to allow it. I think I'd replace the word "accept" with embrace. I think its more a matter of welcoming them to take a stand and standing beside them as they do. And the perception of Iowa football is irrelevant in this case because this is about so much more than football.

I’m with you. For a certain amount of fans, accepting is a big step, for a certain amount of fans embracing is a big step. I’m happy for whatever step in the right direction 70,000 people in that Stadium are willing to take.

 

[okeefe4prez]

George Wallace with his segregated schools, which ended, sort of, but now has re-emerged in the form of property tax based educational funding.

ROFLCopter. Hey, pal, segregated schools are illegal in the South. Period. Full stop. They never went away in the North. Read the Supreme Court case of Milliken v. Bradley from 1974 where the SCOTUS rubber stamped the segregation of Detroit schools, which is the model of every major city in the North. They didn't just "re-emerge." Those "great politicians" you elected built that. And they built the projects. So thanks. We really appreciate. Boomer scum.

 

[okeefe4prez]

kirk needs to give the players freedom to protest however they want this season. If they want to kneel, go for it, if they want to where helmet stickers that say George Floyd instead of ANF go for it. The outrage will die down eventually and winning will smooth over the very few donors/boosters who may be upset

Personally, I'd go all black helmets like they did after the shooting. That is a rare tribute and it means more.

 

[Hawk1960]

I'm surprised, that you guys are surprised, about these tweets from Ex-Hawkeyes. They do need to explain if it's related to the football program but my money is it is more related to the whole University experience. I think that would apply to most African American's experiences at ... let me say it ... liberal institutions. Open your eyes guys. I saw more racism during the four years I attended a major university (9 out of 10 on the liberal scale) than I did in 34 years in the private sector. Hell, these institutions start with it the moment you apply with Asian's required to have a higher test score than whites or blacks. Is that not racism? Why is that? Because they over achieved and tested very high ... so let's lower the bar for everybody else so we don't let too many Asians in.

Not only are these institutions off the scale on the racism issue they have also become intolerant of any open discussions that are not liberal or politically correct. It's their way or the highway. I guess I would call it Academia privilege.

 

[RobHowe]

I'm surprised, that you guys are surprised, about these tweets from Ex-Hawkeyes. They do need to explain if it's related to the football program but my money is it is more related to the whole University experience. I think that would apply to most African American's experiences at ... let me say it ... liberal institutions. Open your eyes guys. I saw more racism during the four years I attended a major university (9 out of 10 on the liberal scale) than I did in 34 years in the private sector. Hell, these institutions start with it the moment you apply with Asian's required to have a higher test score than whites or blacks. Is that not racism? Why is that? Because they over achieved and tested very high ... so let's lower the bar for everybody else so we don't let too many Asians in.

Not only are these institutions off the scale on the racism issue they have also become intolerant of any open discussions that are not liberal or politically correct. It's their way or the highway. I guess I would call it Academia privilege.

I'm not saying that their experiences on campus and around Iowa City didn't impact them, but these comments appear directed at the program as well.

 

[Fryowa]

ROFLCopter.

Sorry to interrupt your discourse, but that’s fabulous. Never heard that one.

 

[Hawknigh]

Kirk's statement is interesting, "So everybody’s taking a knee or everybody’s at attention, either way." I appreciate his sentiment of wanting to put team first. However, this will undoubtedly make some feel frustrated or coerced. In the past, it was those who wanted to kneel. Now, it will probably be those who don't want to kneel. I'm afraid that this puts the issue front and center and makes it an even bigger deal.

 

[Grady]

1) I think it very unlikely KF will allow individual team members to express any type of individuality around this issue on game day. His view of 'football culture' would not allow that. If anything, he'll ask the 'Leadership Council' made up of trusted players to make a suggestion, which will then need to be approved, or possibly tweaked, by KF.
2) I doubt that KF will allow the 'kneel', because of the shit-storm it will release among fans...and there would be a storm of anger, including boos. For a variety of personal reasons, I choose to bow my head and pray during the national anthem when it's played at Kinnick -- I try to do it subtly so as to not draw attention, but regularly get yelled at for something as simple as not removing my hat.
3) While it appears KF is perhaps opening his eyes to some things -- which is good -- I was also struck by his comment when mentioning racism. Beyond the officers involved in the one specific incident, he was quick to add "I don't want to blame anyone" or place blame. The next step for him will be to acknowledge that when it comes to racism, blame needs to be pointed at ourselves and an endless number of people and things all around us.

 

[Hawknigh]

Might this be a time to not do the national anthem? I don't say this in order to be inflammatory, but I haven't heard it discussed. The national anthem is traditional to us, but it hasn't always been a part of pre-game activities. There are plenty of good reasons to have it (e.g. honoring those who fought for our freedoms), but it isn't essential to a football game. Some pre-game activities are essential, such as stretching. The national anthem isn't one of them. It feels essential because it is traditional and we are so familiar with it. It is hard to imagine a game without it (and I never imagined that it could become the focus of so much divisiveness), but maybe it is time to talk about its place. I have no personal objection to the national anthem. I just don't necessarily think it "must" be done at the start of every athletic event. It seems like one of those things that got put in place and now is a "sacred cow" that can't even be reconsidered.

Is there an inherent reason why we must have the national anthem before games? Or is it just the fact that it would be far too upsetting to stop now?

I found it interesting to read about how it became a tradition.

https://www.history.com/news/why-th...er officially,systems and post-war patriotism.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Hell, these institutions start with it the moment you apply with Asian's required to have a higher test score than whites or blacks. Is that not racism? Why is that? Because they over achieved and tested very high ... so let's lower the bar for everybody else so we don't let too many Asians in.

You ever see this video? "GO BACK TO BEIJING." So diverse, so inclusive.


And this young woman quickly learns that, contrary to what she was taught before moving to the US, the individual is totally out of style. These events were well prior to recent events.

 

[Hawk1960]

You ever see this video? "GO BACK TO BEIJING." So diverse, so inclusive.


And this young woman quickly learns that, contrary to what she was taught before moving to the US, the individual is totally out of style. These events were well prior to recent events.

Wow, that 1st video in the library was an impressive ... "hey, this is library" ... good for him. The others had probably never been to the library to even know about the quiet rule. He's the guy that probably set the curve on the test score.

 

[Robowe]

 

[Hawk1960]

I'm not saying that their experiences on campus and around Iowa City didn't impact them, but these comments appear directed at the program as well.

Could be. They really need to get more specific ... although Twitter and 144 characters makes that hard to do in a concise message. Yet another reason I'm not on Twitterville.

 

[HuckFinn]

ROFLCopter. Hey, pal, segregated schools are illegal in the South. Period. Full stop. They never went away in the North. Read the Supreme Court case of Milliken v. Bradley from 1974 where the SCOTUS rubber stamped the segregation of Detroit schools, which is the model of every major city in the North. They didn't just "re-emerge." Those "great politicians" you elected built that. And they built the projects. So thanks. We really appreciate. Boomer scum.

OK. I just read the Case. The court was split. The primary question was, Did the Detroit School District by policy create a segregated District? The court said no. It was a narrow ruling, which the SC is fond of. So, the “model” you refer to. What is it? What I see in Milwaukee, which is the city I live closest to, is “white flight” that has created property rich suburban districts while the city is home to a large contingent of Black citizens. Property is not of high value, so schools suffer from severe economic conditions. It is nice that you defend southern states as lawful. Take a look at the achievement levels around the country and tell me what you see. Take a look at state funding levels in the south. Private schools have also been a haven for white flight, for those who can afford it. Republicans are giddy over aid to religious private schools, taking millions in funding away from the public system.
O Keefe, I could go on with the list of SC cases that have pretty clearly defined integration. You might want to do some more exploring before you quote one case, which I think you have placed your own bias into. Boomer scum? Really? My generation had some great successes and a disappointing number of failures. I am pleased for you that whatever generation you belong to has been the source of great enlightenment in a racist, greedy, war monger, violent, every thing about me society. Get around much? Scum.

 

[RobHowe]

Two Hawkeyes in the NFL being told by some Hawkeye fans that they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[okeefe4prez]

OK. I just read the Case. The court was split. The primary question was, Did the Detroit School District by policy create a segregated District? The court said no. It was a narrow ruling, which the SC is fond of. So, the “model” you refer to. What is it? What I see in Milwaukee, which is the city I live closest to, is “white flight” that has created property rich suburban districts while the city is home to a large contingent of Black citizens. Property is not of high value, so schools suffer from severe economic conditions. It is nice that you defend southern states as lawful. Take a look at the achievement levels around the country and tell me what you see. Take a look at state funding levels in the south. Private schools have also been a haven for white flight, for those who can afford it. Republicans are giddy over aid to religious private schools, taking millions in funding away from the public system.
O Keefe, I could go on with the list of SC cases that have pretty clearly defined integration. You might want to do some more exploring before you quote one case, which I think you have placed your own bias into. Boomer scum? Really? My generation had some great successes and a disappointing number of failures. I am pleased for you that whatever generation you belong to has been the source of great enlightenment in a racist, greedy, war monger, violent, every thing about me society. Get around much? Scum.

Yes, the model that you see in Milwaukee is a big part of the problem facing America today. The Supreme Court said "oh, well if you segregate the schools just by happenstance that is totally fine but if you do it by law that is illegal," which is exactly what happened in the North. The result is you have generations of people in northern inner cities whose main interactions with white people have been interactions in some low wage job or as cops. And vice versa. It is antithetical to the melting pot of America. That is illegal in the South - you can't just move two miles away and suddenly be in a 97% white school. The South took its medicine decades ago. You ever see the picture of the National Guard opening up the high school in Little Rock and the crowd yelling at that girl on her way in? Old people in the South have a tremendous amount of guilt about what happened back then. Two old guys in my church book club broke down in tears when we were talking about race issues because they felt so horrible about how they treated people in the '60's.

But Boomer scum like you are so desperate to say "No Wisconsin isn't racist, it's the bad Southerners and Republicans" that you have blinded yourself to the immediate remedial action that can be undertaken to begin to level the playing field for that poor 7 year old kid who lives in a bad neighborhood in Milwaukee. It isn't giving more money to the teachers' union, it is the forced desegregation of the schools or at least giving parents some degree of freedom to get out of abhorrent schools. Just keep building strawmen and tearing them down. It'll take two generations of kids going to desegregated schools to yield substantial results.