Howe: Hawkeyes Should Be Allowed to Peacefully Protest During Anthem

[HuckFinn]

Yes, the model that you see in Milwaukee is a big part of the problem facing America today. The Supreme Court said "oh, well if you segregate the schools just by happenstance that is totally fine but if you do it by law that is illegal," which is exactly what happened in the North. The result is you have generations of people in northern inner cities whose main interactions with white people have been interactions in some low wage job or as cops. And vice versa. It is antithetical to the melting pot of America. That is illegal in the South - you can't just move two miles away and suddenly be in a 97% white school. The South took its medicine decades ago. You ever see the picture of the National Guard opening up the high school in Little Rock and the crowd yelling at that girl on her way in? Old people in the South have a tremendous amount of guilt about what happened back then. Two old guys in my church book club broke down in tears when we were talking about race issues because they felt so horrible about how they treated people in the '60's.

But Boomer scum like you are so desperate to say "No Wisconsin isn't racist, it's the bad Southerners and Republicans" that you have blinded yourself to the immediate remedial action that can be undertaken to begin to level the playing field for that poor 7 year old kid who lives in a bad neighborhood in Milwaukee. It isn't giving more money to the teachers' union, it is the forced desegregation of the schools or at least giving parents some degree of freedom to get out of abhorrent schools. Just keep building strawmen and tearing them down. It'll take two generations of kids going to desegregated schools to yield substantial results.

On more than one occasion, I have promised myself not to get into a debate with people like you. Example #1: I am disgusted by the racism I see in Wisconsin. Example#2: If you think the racism in WI is bad with regard to black Americans, you should see the even more blatant racism with regard to Native Americans. Example #3: I was a public school educator for 40;years. I have a Masters Degree from Iowa in English. I have PHD in Educational Administration with focus on. School Law and Finance. I was trained by George Chambers, the VP for Finance at the U of I. I have served as an English teacher, an assistant principal, a principal, an Ass’t Supt. For Instruction, and a Superintendent for 15/years. Coached football at CR Kennedy and founded what turned out later to be Metro HS in CR. I am very familiar with the history of Integration in the public schools, having studied with Franklin Stone in school law, where we revived in detail the SC cases that heavily impacted on the attempt to end segregation. Too bad you are apparently not a student of legal history.. I worked with Dr. Chambers in concert with the Joint Finance Committee in the Iowa legislature when they contracted for 5 studies of Iowa’s school finance policies. I raised three children who are very clear that they make every attempt to avoid prejudicial tendencies. I also would note that you are completely ignorant of the negative impact of property tax reliance on school funding. And, there are dozens of suburbs around all major cities in the US that always have been separate school districts. Hence, white flight. Sad. Little diversity for large numbers of kids. The Milwaukee public schools had nothing to do with segregation. They can only control what happens within their own district boundaries. They are hand cuffed by lack of funding, horrid economic conditions, and negative momentum. OK. That reminds me. You clearly know nothing about research on school success. The biggest variable is, wait for it, parental income. If you are such a smart, brave guy, admit that the total lack of diversity in the Republican Party, their hatred of teachers for actually wanting to be paid a fair wage, and a culture of repression of those less fortunate, then I may listen to your blather. You are so far out of your league in this discussion that you have only served to embarrass yourself. So, please, just sign off and go pout somewhere else.

 

[SpiderRico]

Two Hawkeyes in the NFL being told by some Hawkeye fans that they don't know what they're talking about. View attachment 6766

Like I said, this ain’t gonna end well.

 

[Hawk1960]

Yes, the model that you see in Milwaukee is a big part of the problem facing America today. The Supreme Court said "oh, well if you segregate the schools just by happenstance that is totally fine but if you do it by law that is illegal," which is exactly what happened in the North. The result is you have generations of people in northern inner cities whose main interactions with white people have been interactions in some low wage job or as cops. And vice versa. It is antithetical to the melting pot of America. That is illegal in the South - you can't just move two miles away and suddenly be in a 97% white school. The South took its medicine decades ago. You ever see the picture of the National Guard opening up the high school in Little Rock and the crowd yelling at that girl on her way in? Old people in the South have a tremendous amount of guilt about what happened back then. Two old guys in my church book club broke down in tears when we were talking about race issues because they felt so horrible about how they treated people in the '60's.

But Boomer scum like you are so desperate to say "No Wisconsin isn't racist, it's the bad Southerners and Republicans" that you have blinded yourself to the immediate remedial action that can be undertaken to begin to level the playing field for that poor 7 year old kid who lives in a bad neighborhood in Milwaukee. It isn't giving more money to the teachers' union, it is the forced desegregation of the schools or at least giving parents some degree of freedom to get out of abhorrent schools. Just keep building strawmen and tearing them down. It'll take two generations of kids going to desegregated schools to yield substantial results.

You know your stuff O'Keefe. I'd add the voucher card. If your a parent and not satisfied with your public school that your kid is attending you can take the $9K the state is sending to your public school and you can use at another K-12 public or private school of your choice. We'll put the power of school choice in your hands rather than the teacher unions. Competition is a good thing and drives improvement. If the elites can send their kids to the best schools why can't someone from the hood.

 

[Hawk1960]

On more than one occasion, I have promised myself not to get into a debate with people like you. Example #1: I am disgusted by the racism I see in Wisconsin. Example#2: If you think the racism in WI is bad with regard to black Americans, you should see the even more blatant racism with regard to Native Americans. Example #3: I was a public school educator for 40;years. I have a Masters Degree from Iowa in English. I have PHD in Educational Administration with focus on. School Law and Finance. I was trained by George Chambers, the VP for Finance at the U of I. I have served as an English teacher, an assistant principal, a principal, an Ass’t Supt. For Instruction, and a Superintendent for 15/years. Coached football at CR Kennedy and founded what turned out later to be Metro HS in CR. I am very familiar with the history of Integration in the public schools, having studied with Franklin Stone in school law, where we revived in detail the SC cases that heavily impacted on the attempt to end segregation. Too bad you are apparently not a student of legal history.. I worked with Dr. Chambers in concert with the Joint Finance Committee in the Iowa legislature when they contracted for 5 studies of Iowa’s school finance policies. I raised three children who are very clear that they make every attempt to avoid prejudicial tendencies. I also would note that you are completely ignorant of the negative impact of property tax reliance on school funding. And, there are dozens of suburbs around all major cities in the US that always have been separate school districts. Hence, white flight. Sad. Little diversity for large numbers of kids. The Milwaukee public schools had nothing to do with segregation. They can only control what happens within their own district boundaries. They are hand cuffed by lack of funding, horrid economic conditions, and negative momentum. OK. That reminds me. You clearly know nothing about research on school success. The biggest variable is, wait for it, parental income. If you are such a smart, brave guy, admit that the total lack of diversity in the Republican Party, their hatred of teachers for actually wanting to be paid a fair wage, and a culture of repression of those less fortunate, then I may listen to your blather. You are so far out of your league in this discussion that you have only served to embarrass yourself. So, please, just sign off and go pout somewhere else.

As a liberal elite, would you be in favor for school vouchers for the parent of a child who is upset with the quality of education they are receiving in their K-12 public school? Yes or no, and you can skip the name dropping with me.

 

[BlackNGold1982]

@RobHowe - are you able to reach out to James & Eubanks? I’m white. Grew up in Iowa. Iowa College of Pharmacy alum in 2007. Voted for Obama in both elections. Assuming the university culture has changed little since graduation, I would simply like to know where perhaps I’m falling short as a white male. Clearly there’s a problem rooted in their experiences at Iowa that I simply cannot identify with because I do not walk in their shoes and of course never played in the program. But I do sincerely want to know so I can do better as an individual. Thank you.

 

[HuckFinn]

As a liberal elite, would you be in favor for school vouchers for the parent of a child who is upset with the quality of education they are receiving in their K-12 public school? Yes or no, and you can skip the name dropping with me.

I am always concerned when parents are upset with their child’s education. I had three of my own go through school, so I know how important parental comfort is with their child’s school environment. I am not in favor of aid to private schools. They are havens for lack of diversity, do not enroll and serve disabled youngsters, and it is unconstitutional to use taxpayer dollars for religious schools. I have friends who have used the open enrollment option if they are unhappy with their circumstances. I have worked with parents over the years to use this option. You are a great example of the same problem I have with OK. Your assumed ability to judge me as a liberal elite makes you look really stupid. Having spent my entire adult life trying to make things better for the youngsters in my charge hardly supports your dumb assumption. I was and still am a champion for children with disabilities. You are probably still of the opinion that they just don’t try hard enough. How is that for an assumption? And, you confused name dropping with evidence. Nice try.

 

[HawkeyeDug]

So, soldiers fought to protect your "freedom". You choose to exercise that freedom and you are disrespectful and scum. Which side do you prioritize, "respecting" a symbol or against the literal murder and general mistreatment of all people of color? I know where I stand and I come to that conclusion quite easily.

 

[Hawk1960]

I am always concerned when parents are upset with their child’s education. I had three of my own go through school, so I know how important parental comfort is with their child’s school environment. I am not in favor of aid to private schools. They are havens for lack of diversity, do not enroll and serve disabled youngsters, and it is unconstitutional to use taxpayer dollars for religious schools. I have friends who have used the open enrollment option if they are unhappy with their circumstances. I have worked with parents over the years to use this option. You are a great example of the same problem I have with OK. Your assumed ability to judge me as a liberal elite makes you look really stupid. Having spent my entire adult life trying to make things better for the youngsters in my charge hardly supports your dumb assumption. I was and still am a champion for children with disabilities. You are probably still of the opinion that they just don’t try hard enough. How is that for an assumption? And, you confused name dropping with evidence. Nice try.

1) Your reply back to Okeefe sure sounded elitist to me, "I promised myself not to get in to a debate with people like you." Wow, why not just call him deplorable? I'll assume your elitist until you apologize to him.

2) All your fancy degrees and name dropping does not impress me in the least. I like results. You and I know American schools in general are failing and the biggest impact is with inner city kids. It's really disgraceful in my opinion. Among the OECD we are middle of the pack at best and the trend is not looking good either.

3) In your reply back to Okeefe you make an important point that I agree with, "one of the biggest variables is parental income." So why not give those parents who don't have the income a simple voucher from the state and allow them to use it at a school of their choice?

4) You mention private schools are, "havens for lack of diversity". See item 3. Would that not make these private schools more diverse? Let's connect the dots here.

5) The way I look at a lot of things in life is to keep it simple, for goods and service there is a supplier and a customer. In the case of education, administrators and teachers in public education are a supplier and people like Okeefe and I along with millions of other parents are your customer base. If a parent believes his/her local school is not supplying me a quality product and good value why not give them the ability to make a better choice and choose a different supplier? Why allow a poorly performing school or district have a virtual monopoly with no other viable option for most parents? Choice, and the competition that comes with it, works very well in the private sector.

We've been making excuse and giving lip service to America's public education system far too long. Let's give these kids a chance in life. That my friend would be social justice.

 

[dirtwrap]

I have little patience for wasting time and energy, and discussing this kneeling issue to exhaustion is exactly that. While any person in this country has the right to kneel, the kneeling within itself is not going to accomplish anything. For the past few years that is where everything gets hung up because it turns into a debate about kneeling and not a debate on the real issues.

Kneeling is all about bringing attention to an issue. And it is very effective because it does make people take notice. But then after gaining that attention, those that are protesting should declare what they are protesting and what they want to change.

And this is the frustrating part about all of this for me. In this post I read all of the tweets from the former players, who I respect immensely, but I didn't read one suggestion of action that needs to take place. Without the call to specific action, the debate will continue to get hung up about kneeling when kneeling is not what this is about.

So moving forward, if there is a problem with something racial, and we are talking about from a players perspective but really the American people as a whole, let us know what those problems are. If it is a coach, or a policy, or a police officer, or boosters, or whatever, let us know so we all can get behind the issue and fix it. But being cryptic and vague about racial injustice and telling all of us white people that we don't get it and we don't understand, without a call to action, is useless.

 

[Hawk1960]

I have little patience for wasting time and energy, and discussing this kneeling issue to exhaustion is exactly that. While any person in this country has the right to kneel, the kneeling within itself is not going to accomplish anything. For the past few years that is where everything gets hung up because it turns into a debate about kneeling and not a debate on the real issues.

Kneeling is all about bringing attention to an issue. And it is very effective because it does make people take notice. But then after gaining that attention, those that are protesting should declare what they are protesting and what they want to change.

And this is the frustrating part about all of this for me. In this post I read all of the tweets from the former players, who I respect immensely, but I didn't read one suggestion of action that needs to take place. Without the call to specific action, the debate will continue to get hung up about kneeling when kneeling is not what this is about.

So moving forward, if there is a problem with something racial, and we are talking about from a players perspective but really the American people as a whole, let us know what those problems are. If it is a coach, or a policy, or a police officer, or boosters, or whatever, let us know so we all can get behind the issue and fix it. But being cryptic and vague about racial injustice and telling all of us white people that we don't get it and we don't understand, without a call to action, is useless.

Great post, they do need to get more specific. It's easy to complain and talk generalities about an issue but offering solutions and executing on those solutions is the quickest way to solve them. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I also would note that you are completely ignorant of the negative impact of property tax reliance on school funding.

No, I mentioned it like 15 pages ago and had the privilege of paying absurd property taxes on a condo in Crook County, Illinois. I get it. The South does not have that model. It is illegal. The funding model in the South is completely opposite of what it is in the North. Most money comes from the State to prevent the exact issue you are describing.

You are so focused on navel gazing and patting yourself on the back that you completely fail to see the issue. I know the Milwaukee school district isn't at fault. It's virtue signalling people like you who are. You need to demand that they implement busing and a funding model more heavily reliant on the state, not property taxes. At least you have found a convenient scapegoat to assuage your guilt.

 

[uihawk82]

I will side w/ the captain on not kneeling during the anthem. There are other ways to bring to light white privilege and social injustice that is rampant in this country. During the anthem imo is absolutely not that place. If you don’t think it’s disrespectful to kneel during the national anthem then I challenge you to ask a solider who’s lost a friend fighting for the very freedom that our flag stands for what he thinks about someone kneeling for during the anthem.

I read what I thought was the message the captain KF would allow kneeling if the whole team kneels. Your post above contradicts that statement. Did KF say absolutely no kneeling?

I also think the soldiers take an oath to uphold the constitution which has the #1 right being free speech and thought. Kneeling during the anthem is protected by the first amendment therefore all soldiers and veterans should be for protecting that right.

The Constitution and the country are older than the National Anthem and bigger than the National Anthem. Free speech is bigger than the National Anthem. I think the logic of your argument is misplaced and yes some soldiers may get upset but it doesnt mean the soldiers didnt swear the oath to uphold those rights.

I will support any player who wants to kneel and I sure hope our fans would agree that it is a players right. If some fans dont like it they can stop going to games which is their choice.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

I'd prefer that they did not kneel so the fans' experience could just be focused on football. I'm totally OK if the team got involved in social issues on the side.

But if they do kneel, I hope it's just the first game of the year.

 

[uihawk82]

Isn't there a more effective way of projecting the desire and goal of racial harmony in this country? It just seems to me that not honoring the flag and what it is supposed to represent further divides rather than unites. The Iowa helmet includes the ANF logo for America Needs Farmers to ask people to remember the people that toil the soil for us. It is just my opinion that the team members and coaches come up with a similar idea. It could be a uniform patch of some sort that conveys a message. Another option might be that the team ask that the national anthem not be played and substitute America the Beautiful or the video board plays MLK's "I have a dream speech" instead. I'm just thinking that there has to be a better way to accomplish the goal.

I like some of your ideas but I think the first amendment and constitution is bigger than standing during the anthem or conversely not kneeling.

The irony and dichotomy of thought and logic over these ideas is immense as I am almost 100% sure that a large bunch of people who were pissed at Colin Kaepernick and other kneelers for kneeling thought they should not kneel but those same mostly white people say they have an absolute right to own semi-automatic weapons with large clips.

Actually there have been assault weapons bans so I guess if some people want to try to pass a law to ban kneeling during the anthem it would be interesting to watch the legal actions taken.

 

[Motigerhawk]

Mizzou football team and coaching staff knelt together after practice. Then 62 players went out and registered to vote.

 

[uihawk82]

The Libertarian in me says let the players do whatever the hell they want. I also understand Kirk's previous position and in many regards I agree we need to keep politics the hell out of sports because it could (probably will) become divisive. So I'm torn on this one.

On a related but separate note I don't get the symbolism of "kneeling". To me kneeling is a subservient gesture. Like kneeling to the king or some great being. Not to mention a knee to the neck is what this dumb ass cop did. I think a better way is the arms in arms approach. It also reminds me of the swarm. To be less divisive as a team member I would suggest they do it before or after the anthem. In my opinion timing is everything and it would actually be more effective ... but that's their choice.

Well there always is kneeling in prayer that things get better.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I am always concerned when parents are upset with their child’s education. I had three of my own go through school, so I know how important parental comfort is with their child’s school environment. I am not in favor of aid to private schools. They are havens for lack of diversity, do not enroll and serve disabled youngsters, and it is unconstitutional to use taxpayer dollars for religious schools.

I'm sorry, but this is a total strawman. The best school in my area is a charter that a bunch of really smart Muslim dudes set up with a strong focus on STEM and no sports programs to save money and focus 100% on academics and the arts. Admission to charters in South Carolina is 100% by open lottery. People can attend the lotteries and they are live-streamed. The diversity is in line with the community at large, so the charters are 20-25% black.

I'm trying to send my boy to the Mandarin immersion charter school. That one is also massively oversubscribed in the lottery and we didn't get into PK. You've simply been brainwashed into an anti-choice position by your years of service to the public system. Like any monopolist, you want to advocate for the maintenance of the monopoly.

 

[uihawk82]

Just my opinion but making the national anthem part of game day brings politics into sports so I see no problem whatsoever with athletes taking a knee. I don't see taking a knee being a sign of disrespect toward those that fought for our freedom or what the flag symbolizes but rather an opportunity to voice a belief that change (social or political) is needed.

We're a different country then we were 3 years ago. I think there it would be welcome and accepted by a majority of the population if it were to resurface in the fall. In a state as conservative as Iowa, I would absolutely love to see the team come out with a decision to kneel in support of the cause.

Iowa is a somewhat conservative state that has been ahead in social change and conscious for many decades.

 

[peerok]

I have little patience for wasting time and energy, and discussing this kneeling issue to exhaustion is exactly that. While any person in this country has the right to kneel, the kneeling within itself is not going to accomplish anything. For the past few years that is where everything gets hung up because it turns into a debate about kneeling and not a debate on the real issues.

Kneeling is all about bringing attention to an issue. And it is very effective because it does make people take notice. But then after gaining that attention, those that are protesting should declare what they are protesting and what they want to change.

And this is the frustrating part about all of this for me. In this post I read all of the tweets from the former players, who I respect immensely, but I didn't read one suggestion of action that needs to take place. Without the call to specific action, the debate will continue to get hung up about kneeling when kneeling is not what this is about.

So moving forward, if there is a problem with something racial, and we are talking about from a players perspective but really the American people as a whole, let us know what those problems are. If it is a coach, or a policy, or a police officer, or boosters, or whatever, let us know so we all can get behind the issue and fix it. But being cryptic and vague about racial injustice and telling all of us white people that we don't get it and we don't understand, without a call to action, is useless.

I agree with this totally. There is a time for protesting, and a time for the people of America to roll up their sleeves, get to work and actually do something about the problems in society. If people won't acknowledge the racial problems we have in this country by now, more protesting isn't going to change their minds.

 

[dirtwrap]

I agree with this totally. There is a time for protesting, and a time for the people of America to roll up their sleeves, get to work and actually do something about the problems in society. If people won't acknowledge the racial problems we have in this country by now, more protesting isn't going to change their minds.

I agree completely, and I will go a little further by saying once awareness is reached, more protesting will produce a negative impact on the end result because to many it just looks like a bunch of bitching and moaning and complaining and that turns people off.

We all need to realize at this moment that not everyone that claims to be sympathetic to racial injustice actually wants to fix it. That is the key here in order to accomplish some sort of positive reform. Like I said in another post, there are a lot of politicians that are using this platform to define the political power structure, and in the end have no interest in fixing anything because they know they can take advantage of this issue whenever they want to. And to the people that are comfortable smiling to your face and sticking you in the ass at the same time, that is true power, to control and manipulate a defining sector of people and the people have no idea it is happening. It is the ultimate scam, to promise a group of people that they will help, never come through, and then do it over and over and over again. It is the old adage of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me", so at some point those that are being used need to take accountability for it. Only, and I mean only, if they want true change.