Howe: Hawkeyes Should Be Allowed to Peacefully Protest During Anthem

[ArvadaHawk]

This is what people are saying is tone deaf. It is not disrespecting the flag. It is expressing your constitutional right to protest and your right to freedom of speech. This comment lessens what the players are doing, trying to spotlight the abuse black people suffer everyday.

you're wrong, my friend. if you don't respect the american flag, then you don't respect the actual country...the ONLY country in the world that allows you to speak freely. that's just the way it is.

 

[Motigerhawk]

you're wrong, my friend. if you don't respect the american flag, then you don't respect the actual country...the ONLY country in the world that allows you to speak freely. that's just the way it is.

Your wrong my friend. See Drew Brees who said the exact same thing you did.

This isnt about the flag. This is about social injustice. In fact, it was a veteran who told Kapernick he should kneel. Do you think that a veteran, who sacrificed everything for this country was telling him to disrespect the flag?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

55 of the 70 US soldiers executed in WW2 were Black. Of the about 20 or so executed in the 50s and 60s were black except for maybe 1. Do you know about the hangings at Camp Dodge in 1918?

do you know about the civil rights movement...the PEACEFUL civil rights movement that one of the greatest leaders in united states history lead? do you realize that dr. martin luther king won? he won. but when political people decided they still needed to subjugate, they assassinated him. are you aware that it is liberal policies that killed the black nuclear family and that is the point at which black poverty began in america? so, if you want to solve systemic racism, at least start in the right spot.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/black-family-40-years-lies-12872.html

 

[HawkGold]

do you know about the civil rights movement...the PEACEFUL civil rights movement that one of the greatest leaders in united states history lead? do you realize that dr. martin luther king won? he won. but when political people decided they still needed to subjugate, they assassinated him. are you aware that it is liberal policies that killed the black nuclear family and that is the point at which black poverty began in america? so, if you want to solve systemic racism, at least start in the right spot.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/black-family-40-years-lies-12872.html

It's starts with everyday people.

Are you aware of the transfer of wealth under Bush? I'm actually a Republican, but it happened. The biggest theft was from the poor and lower middle. Conservative hiring practices also destroy the Black nuclear family. This is not a liberal conservative debate. It's human decency.

Black poverty began centuries ago, not the 60s.

 

[dirtwrap]

Your wrong my friend. See Drew Brees who said the exact same thing you did.

This isnt about the flag. This is about social injustice. In fact, it was a veteran who told Kapernick he should kneel. Do you think that a veteran, who sacrificed everything for this country was telling him to disrespect the flag?

Do you see what I have been saying all along? To you this is about social injustice. To Arvada it's about the flag. Arvada also appears to support social justice reform. But Arvada gets hung up on the flag, because to him the flag represents the very freedom that allows the other side to protest in the first place. And when Arvada doesn't support the reform until the opposition stops protesting the flag, then Arvada is labeled a racist and the opposition gets upset because they think their constitutional rights are being violated. Then, they protest that, by, you guessed it, by protesting the flag, and it starts all over again.

Bottom line is that if anyone really wants social justice reform or police department reform, then, protesting the flag is exactly the wrong way to do it. Of course it is their right to do that, but they won't accomplish a thing and they will just spin their wheels, because the other side is dug in and I promise they will not budge.

 

[PCHawk]

Your wrong my friend. See Drew Brees who said the exact same thing you did.

This isnt about the flag. This is about social injustice. In fact, it was a veteran who told Kapernick he should kneel. Do you think that a veteran, who sacrificed everything for this country was telling him to disrespect the flag?

It was actually a veteran who told him a good compromise was to kneel instead of sitting like he was doing.

 

[PCHawk]

Let's not confuse things. The REAL person who suggested Kaep kneel was his girlfriend. The REAL reason he started doing it is because he lost his starting job.

I'm all for his rights, but let's at least be intellectually honest. Like Candace Owens said of George Floyd, it's terrible what happened, but let's not pretend he was a saint all his life.

Frankly, I would rather everyone stand for the anthem and let them do the Black Power salute a la Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 Olympics. It wouldn't right the wrong of kicking them out of the Olympic Village, but it would at least acknowledge, finally, that they should NOT have been punished for it.

I've been watching a lot of stuff over the last week trying to educate myself as the left says. I have learned a lot and have softened my views on some things. But I have also reaffirmed my beliefs in a lot of things too. Candice Owens had a lot to do with the latter. If you are on the left and have any desire to educate yourself about how good people who lean right view these topics, she would be a great place to start. If you don't have an open mind there's no point in wasting your time tho. Also if there is a specific person on the left that anyone could recomend listening to, I'd like suggestions.

 

[HawkGold]

you're wrong, my friend. if you don't respect the american flag, then you don't respect the actual country...the ONLY country in the world that allows you to speak freely. that's just the way it is.

You are wrong. The US has slander laws. About any nation in west Europe has free speech. You should travel more.

 

[kicker22]

Oh you are going to get hammered for this because your white privilege means you don't get it. But I agree with you. I also agree with most viewpoints on this as well, because there are so many origins of perception and the views don't directly oppose each other.

Personally, I am 110% supportive of protesting if don't the right way. However, in this case, calling attention to your cause during the national anthem was an extremely poor choice, I don't care who told Kap to do it. The reason is because for those protesting, they know they aren't protesting our flag, our country, our constitution, but to everyone else that is exactly what it is. So that is where the debate stalls and we all spend so much time debating something that has nothing to do with the reason for protesting. If another form of protest were were chosen, the rest of people would get behind it because they would know the protest is in an effort to make America better and not trying to tear it apart.

If we all stop to look at the true issues here, I think all of us can agree on two things.

1. I think most of us would think there definitely needs to be reform in a lot of the police departments. The overwhelming majority are appalled at the Floyd killing, Arbery killing, Hawley football players getting searched, etc. I don't know one person that thinks that is ok. In so many places police officers are power drunk, and the reason is the militarization of the police.
2. But we have to have authority and there needs to be an accountable police service, I think most agree. We just can't get rid of it, chaos would ensue otherwise.

And that is what the protest at the beginning was about. Right now action needs to be taken so we can eliminate the rest of the nonsense and get something done. And I think everyone is behind that too.

I hear where your coming from and will never blast a belief. That said the focus is almost always on protesting this or protesting that is disrespectful to the flag, but IMO it goes way beyond that. Forget the thought of protesting being disrespectful to the flag. What is going on in our country is disrespectful to the flag.

we’re as decided as we’ve ever been as a nation and we’re talking about people being upset if an athlete takes a knee to express their beliefs. My beliefs are this country’s core values and beliefs are in shambles to the point it sickens me. I’m sorry, and I’m not directing this toward you, but I can’t find it in me to understand how there are people that are ashamed of the thought of a flag being disrespected (when there’s no intent to disrespect it in the first place) yet have no problem with how things are playing out in the world around us.

 

[kicker22]

you're wrong, my friend. if you don't respect the american flag, then you don't respect the actual country...the ONLY country in the world that allows you to speak freely. that's just the way it is.

Our country is imploding and the issue is disrespecting the flag? What about respecting those that have a reason to protest. It is possible to respect the flag while demanding change.

 

[Hawk1960]

I guess if you want to classify me as “elitist” go ahead. If describing the background of your views is elitist, then I guess you don’t like resumes’. Your insult #2 gets the same response.
The sound bite, “failing public schools” does not hold water. Yes, the inner city schools are struggling not because of high minority populations, but because of abject poverty, lack of decent jobs, high rents for sub standard housing, poor health care, and the list goes on. The racists love to promote failures in those schools so they can define people of color as less capable. Be careful about using the sound bite. You have some company you may not like.

Yeah, you guys love vouchers. So, state spending on public schools is diverted to vouchers, exacerbating the failure to adequately fund public schools. Nice try. There are a lot of us who do not approve of tax dollars going to religious based education. You want private, pay for it.
Now, plug in open enrollment. Kid from inner city school can go to a high achieving public school in the suburbs. That is available in many states, including Wisconsin.

The diversity related to private schools is a big joke. Tuition is still too high, privates are not required to enroll minorities, and they turn away kids with disabilities routinely. Again, nice try.

Public schools defined as a monopoly is another sound bite with little foundation. Ever hear of local school boards? Every community across our Nation has one. You could serve, you can vote for whomever you like on the ballot, and they will be the local banker, the local barber, the restaurant owner, whatever. Good grief! How is that a monopoly?

There are areas where private and public sector operational rules are very different. There was a big cry for a while about private sector entities were going to come in and improve schools and save lots of money. They all failed and went broke. They found out that in the private sector, if they got raw materials that were defective, they would send them back. They could not manipulate kids from all kinds of backgrounds the same way. Fail.

Our fathers throughout history knew that a free public education for all kids through the 12th grade was a foundation for an educated society. If you don’t believe in this basic truth, that is your choice. But, you had better be right.

Just so you will know, I have blocked Okeef. I do not need more of his blather. I am much more pleased with HN now that I am rid of Sirius, Fry, seepig, and a few others. I enjoy lively respectful controversy over sports. I just do not need the aggravation, and they simply do not add much of anything I am interested in.

I don’t generally disrespect your views. But, I think you are dead wrong on this one.

We'll agree to disagree.

I could pick your last post apart but I see your too far embedded to ever change ... that's fine. Change and competition is all I'm looking for to improve all education. Defend that mediocre public education monopoly with pride. Meanwhile others are looking for better results.

 

[HuckFinn]

We'll agree to disagree.

I could pick your last post apart but I see your too far embedded to ever change ... that's fine. Change and competition is all I'm looking for to improve all education. Defend that mediocre public education monopoly with pride. Meanwhile others are looking for better results.

That is fine. I suggest you forward your well documented evidence to a system that has been an integral part over time of making the US the greatest, most highly educated country in the world. Our competition is seeking the probably impossible goal of successfully educating every child in the US. I welcome your superior wisdom to achieve that goal. But you and others have reduced the criticism to a sound bite. I guess that is much more comfortable for you.

 

[Hawk1960]

That is fine. I suggest you forward your well documented evidence to a system that has been an integral part over time of making the US the greatest, most highly educated country in the world. Our competition is seeking the probably impossible goal of successfully educating every child in the US. I welcome your superior wisdom to achieve that goal. But you and others have reduced the criticism to a sound bite. I guess that is much more comfortable for you.

The strength of the American education system is at the university level, which has far more choices (and competition) than the K-12 levels. There is plenty of evidence out now suggesting that it could be equally successful at the K-12 level if there was more choice and competition. See recent Cato article below which recaps several pro/con studies on vouchers. As worldwide comparisons have shown, time and time again, the U.S. is very mediocre with K-12. I understand the fear from teacher's unions and the NEA because they've owned that turf for so long and want to defend that territory, but their customer base is not happy with the value proposition they've been given.

https://www.cato.org/blog/highly-positive-impacts-vouchers

 

[revkev73]

Will an Iowa player be allowed to kneel to protest the high percentage of whites who are murdered by African Americans? Will his protest and personal views also be protected by such a public statement? Can the individual players all sign up before each game to let other players and the fans know for which cause they are "bending" during each game?

 

[HawkGold]

Will an Iowa player be allowed to kneel to protest the high percentage of whites who are murdered by African Americans? Will his protest and personal views also be protected by such a public statement? Can the individual players all sign up before each game to let other players and the fans know for which cause they are "bending" during each game?

You aren't being reasonable. When is the last time you were stopped for DWW?

It's not the same and you know it.

 

[revkev73]

You aren't being reasonable. When is the last time you were stopped for DWW?

It's not the same and you know it.

Free Speech is fragile, easily hijacked by one way think. Mob rule/think can be fun but abuses and isolates others.

Who will protect all voices?

I identify as Dutch, not white.

 

[Hawk4Fan]

Your wrong my friend. See Drew Brees who said the exact same thing you did.

This isnt about the flag. This is about social injustice. In fact, it was a veteran who told Kapernick he should kneel. Do you think that a veteran, who sacrificed everything for this country was telling him to disrespect the flag?

However there are ALOT of Vets who feel otherwise and they say it is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for, are you going to say their opinion is wrong....I know ALOT of Vets who want nothing to do with the NFL anymore and they watched it all the time before they started kneeling and they won't ever watch it again, if the Colleges start doing it also they won't go to anymore games or watch it then...saying their opinion doesn't matter or is wrong is stupid at best!

 

[Motigerhawk]

However there are ALOT of Vets who feel otherwise and they say it is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for, are you going to say their opinion is wrong....I know ALOT of Vets who want nothing to do with the NFL anymore and they watched it all the time before they started kneeling and they won't ever watch it again, if the Colleges start doing it also they won't go to anymore games or watch it then...saying their opinion doesn't matter or is wrong is stupid at best!

Hello, pot. This is the kettle.

 

[HawkGold]

Free Speech is fragile, easily hijacked by one way think. Mob rule/think can be fun but abuses and isolates others.

Who will protect all voices?

I identify as Dutch, not white.

I think you just inadvertently made a point. Mob rule. The majority mob has for a long time tolerated orderly mob action. The idea is to keep the savages under control so the majority mob is comfortable. Why you can't get that is incomprehensible.

So many on here when some of BF s and Doyle s powerful rhetoric was met with I like it. That is a peaceful mob. We take savages and weak non savages and make them into MEN that act the way we want them.

Yes it was mob action. White mob action. White civilized controlled mob action. White abusive mob action.

 

[Motigerhawk]

I think you just inadvertently made a point. Mob rule. The majority mob has for a long time tolerated orderly mob action. The idea is to keep the savages under control so the majority mob is comfortable. Why you can't get that is incomprehensible.

So many on here when some of BF s and Doyle s powerful rhetoric was met with I like it. That is a peaceful mob. We take savages and weak non savages and make them into MEN that act the way we want them.

Yes it was mob action. White mob action. White civilized controlled mob action. White abusive mob action.

Good points. I never thought it was like this, though.

I thought Doyle should have been gone after the rahbo (sp?) incident. And looking back now (Yes, hindsight is 20/20) it seems like these players felt they had to do whatever Doyle said. And it injured them. Yet, KF let it slide.

I knew BF was immature and a hothead. But not knowing what these guys said or did, you just thought he needed to mature up.

But, man, talk about some serious problems. And all under KFs watch. This is not a good thing. Not at all. And on do many levels.