Howe: Big Dance a Watershed Moment for Hawkeye Program

[revkev73]

So i think we may have identified a problem.

Identifying the problem is the most important step in problem solving, but denial is very powerful, and that "first step" is most often left as a step.

 

[RobHowe]

I noticed on 247's page on Iowa 2019 recruiting that Bryan Greenlee is still listed as having "warm" interest. Is that because 247 simply forgot to change his status after Fran got Toussaint to sign or is it due to there being a wink, wink, nod, nod understanding with him that Iowa would look at bringing him in because it's likely more guys could leave other than Baer and probably Cook?

He's another pg though with underwhelming offers so probably not. Don't know how it all works.

I don’t think they’ve updated their site.

Baer is the only loss we know. Time will tell beyond him.

There were guys that considered moving on after last season other than Cook and Moss testing the nba waters. Pemsl talked about it publicly.

 

[DDThompson]

Understood, I don't know of Smart.

He was the awesome sauce to take Texas’ from their “Tom Davis” to the next level.

So now their “Tom Davis” is coaching at #2 seed Tennessee and Texas is somewhere middling between Lickliter and Alford.

Maybe Prohm is an anecdotal hot sauce coach of your dreams. I can’t think of any others.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I don’t think they’ve updated their site.

Baer is the only loss we know. Time will tell beyond him.

There were guys that considered moving in after last season other than Cook and Moss testing the nba waters. Pemsl talked about it publicly.

If Pemsl transferred would he be granted immediate eligibility by the NCAA? I’m sure he’d have to apply but only playing one game you’d have to like his chances. If he did and was granted a medical redshirt he could play two years elsewhere.

Do you know by chance if Moss is on schedule to graduate in the spring? He’s been at Iowa 4 years. If he is that would make it more realistic to grad transfer or decide to pursue a pro career.

Dailey is the most likely transfer to me, but I assume he’d have to sit out a year unless he wanted to play down a level.

Certainly a lot of stories to follow in the offseason.

 

[lightning1]

He was the awesome sauce to take Texas’ from their “Tom Davis” to the next level.

So now their “Tom Davis” is coaching at #2 seed Tennessee and Texas is somewhere middling between Lickliter and Alford.

Maybe Prohm is an anecdotal hot sauce coach of your dreams. I can’t think of any others.

But Tennessee moved on from their middling coach of Cuonzo Martin and hired Rick Barnes, so......I guess they refused to settle for "Tom Davis" and found their "awesome sauce" coach. Their "Tom Davis" is at Missouri after failing at California? Is Missouri playing in a post season tournament? I'm not even sure.

 

[NikeHawk21]

But Tennessee moved on from their middling coach of Cuonzo Martin and hired Rick Barnes, so......I guess they refused to settle for "Tom Davis" and found their "awesome sauce" coach. Their "Tom Davis" is at Missouri after failing at California? Is Missouri playing in a post season tournament? I'm not even sure.

Well let’s see how Tennessee does in the dance first. Barnes’ recent NCAA tournament struggles have been well documented. Getting a two seed is great but have to make it count with a tournament run.

 

[revkev73]

He was the awesome sauce to take Texas’ from their “Tom Davis” to the next level.

So now their “Tom Davis” is coaching at #2 seed Tennessee and Texas is somewhere middling between Lickliter and Alford.

Maybe Prohm is an anecdotal hot sauce coach of your dreams. I can’t think of any others.

I don't have any coach of my dreams, but I am not a fan who is content with average and season ending tailspins over and over. Does the AD, and coaches have dreams of being champions? Are they willing to take the risks to make it happen? The dream of longevity and security often doesn't allow for championship planning and risks.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

i think it is a bit unfair to say that iowa has to beat Cincinnati (essentially a home game for Cincinnati) and then Tennessee (whom many thought should be a #1 seed until the AU loss, but who some feel still can make the final 4) or fran is on the hot seat. sure, we need to get to a sweet 16. but this is an absolute horrible draw for iowa.

When the bracket was announced, who on this board said: "oh, yeah, iowa wins both. it's an obvious sweet 16 for iowa?" at the beginning of the season, the bar was "make it to the NCAA." there was no mandate to make it to the sweet 16. feels like moving the goal posts, a little. now, next season, to me, better be a sweet 16 season.

To me, even a second-round loss isn't inexcusable unless we are a 5-seed or better. The question becomes, "How did we arrive at that seed?"

To start 20-5, then finish 22-10 (pre-B1G tourney) is pretty much a concern because it has happened several other times. We may be the best 3-seed every January, but by March, we're always wondering how far we've dropped before we even start B1G tourney. To me, B1G tourney should be a time when we figure out whether we have the right draw to win it, not whether or not we are a lock for NCAAs. Sure, a program at our level will see those NIT and stay-at-home years, but we should be hoping for 5-of-7-in-NCAAs, and pretty much expecting 6 or 7 NCAAs each decade, with the balance being NIT, minus a stay-at-home season thrown in somewhere. Under Lute we we were pretty much an NCAA team from 1978 onward. We were never "in danger" of NIT, much less a stay-at-home season. If we could have--somehow!--combined George Raveling's recruiting with Tom Davis's grit/savvy, we would have easily continued on the path Lute set.

Unfortunately, not only did Alford not "raise the bar", but his successor erased the concept OF a "bar". Fran has had some ups-and-downs, but "making it back" in the changing landscape of NCAA basketball may just be tougher than we realized. And his demeanor/behavior has, at times, rankled people. But people forget how surly Lute was his last two seasons, too. His pressers were NOT fun viewing toward the end.

 

[RobHowe]

If Pemsl transferred would he be granted immediate eligibility by the NCAA? I’m sure he’d have to apply but only playing one game you’d have to like his chances. If he did and was granted a medical redshirt he could play two years elsewhere.

Do you know by chance if Moss is on schedule to graduate in the spring? He’s been at Iowa 4 years. If he is that would make it more realistic to grad transfer or decide to pursue a pro career.

Dailey is the most likely transfer to me, but I assume he’d have to sit out a year unless he wanted to play down a level.

Certainly a lot of stories to follow in the offseason.

Pemsl would need to apply. Not sure of his chances. He might also see opportunity here if Cook leaves. That will be an interesting one.

Not sure about Moss' academic standing.

Dailey was distraught after the Michigan loss in Chicago. He had his head buried in his locker and wasn't doing interviews. Take that FWIW.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I have never heard of him. Sorry it didn't work out.

On the other hand, there are tons of young, talented, sane, great BB coaches who have never had the chance to be who they might become. I want one of those, in love with recruiting and coaching fundamental BB. Make Iowa a nightmare to play because of the defensive intensity Iowa brings. (How refreshing that would be) Iowa has learned to fade at the end of seasons. We need a coach who helps a team get better on every level as the season progresses.

If you want a championship team, you need some dynamic leadership. I am not a big fan of open-ended coaching contracts, going for average and being happy with average. You had your 6-8 years, time to try something else.

You have never heard of Shaka Smart?!

I, too, cringe at the thought of open-ended contracts. But what concerns me about THIS year's fade is that, in prior years, we had overseas trips, PTL, etc., so that the team was pretty much "in competition" 9 months of the year. This year we had no overseas trip that I remember, and PTL was cancelled. We should have had "fresh legs" late in the season, IMO. But all we saw was the same fade.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

What? Wisconsin won 4 BIG titles since 2002! Guess how long it was before that? 1947! It CAN happen at Iowa. You just can't have fans that settle for mediocrity and a dog shit Athletic Director.

What fans "settle for" has little effect. The AD, on the other hand...

 

[DDThompson]

But Tennessee moved on from their middling coach of Cuonzo Martin and hired Rick Barnes, so......I guess they refused to settle for "Tom Davis" and found their "awesome sauce" coach. Their "Tom Davis" is at Missouri after failing at California? Is Missouri playing in a post season tournament? I'm not even sure.

The context of my post and others was an awesome sauce coach that hadn’t got a chance at the bigs. Barnes has of course.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Pemsl would need to apply. Not sure of his chances. He might also see opportunity here if Cook leaves. That will be an interesting one.

Not sure about Moss' academic standing.

Dailey was distraught after the Michigan loss in Chicago. He had his head buried in his locker and wasn't doing interviews. Take that FWIW.

I don't follow on the Dailey part. At least SOMEone WAS distraught. Or are you saying he got "walking papers"?

 

[hawkeyebob62]

It's a universal argument when it comes to sports -- what are the reasonable expectations and when is it time to raise the bar?

Like most fans, I find myself going back and forth with Fran. While I have issues with his recruiting and game management, I also realize that he is a major step up from Alford and Lick.

Can Iowa do better? Probably, but, as others have pointed out, there's a substantial risk of taking the program backwards once again. Sometimes the stars align, other times they don't, but, that's the risk.

Personally, I think Barta missed a golden opportunity to fire Fran after his last meltdown. A case quite easily could have been made that he violated the ethics clause, qualifying him for dismissal "for cause." In the vast majority of sports contracts, that negates the buyout.

Yes, we would have lost Connor and Patrick, and, perhaps others, such as Garza and Frederick, but, the program would have sent a message that abusive anger outbursts are not tolerated, and that resonates particularly well with parents of potential recruits. Fran has had enough time to show the fan base that he's worth the big bucks. Late season collapses and 20+ point blow-outs are showing us just the opposite.

With regard to what I bolded above, I don't think parents of recruits care about a coach's "demeanor" as much as they do his "promises"...wink-wink

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Personally, I think Barta missed a golden opportunity to fire Fran after his last meltdown

I'm not sure the U of I can afford another $6+ million lawsuit

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Why isn't he fired yet?

Dolph has just been "woke" to the reason...

 

[NikeHawk21]

Pemsl would need to apply. Not sure of his chances. He might also see opportunity here if Cook leaves. That will be an interesting one.

Not sure about Moss' academic standing.

Dailey was distraught after the Michigan loss in Chicago. He had his head buried in his locker and wasn't doing interviews. Take that FWIW.

Dailey I think is the most likely to go. I feel bad because I do think he worked his tail off this offseason, but I don’t think this season has gone the way he hoped it would on a personal level.

Pemsl as an Iowa kid I think wants to be a hawk, and I think he knows Fran will give him minutes so he will probably be back. If he didn’t go last year probably unlikely now.

Moss I simply have no idea, the kid seems hard to read. I’d prefer to keep him to be quite honest, the other two wouldn’t bother me either way.

 

[revkev73]

You have never heard of Shaka Smart?!

I, too, cringe at the thought of open-ended contracts. But what concerns me about THIS year's fade is that, in prior years, we had overseas trips, PTL, etc., so that the team was pretty much "in competition" 9 months of the year. This year we had no overseas trip that I remember, and PTL was cancelled. We should have had "fresh legs" late in the season, IMO. But all we saw was the same fade.

I "had" never heard of Smart, now I have. Yipee!

Good points, not many valid excuses out there anymore. The team is slow, dabbles with defense, and can be rolled pretty easily. If the threes are falling, well, then it is usually "easy" and can mask the fundamental deficiencies of Fran Ball.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

I don’t think they’ve updated their site.

Baer is the only loss we know. Time will tell beyond him.

There were guys that considered moving on after last season other than Cook and Moss testing the nba waters. Pemsl talked about it publicly.

Thanks Rob.

I did notice as well that Rivals still has Greenlee 100% committed to Iowa. Not sure what to make of that either. Seems odd both 247 and Rivals have forgotten to update their site but then Greenlee probably isn't a high priority for them.

But who knows. Maybe Fran gently talks to Dailey about moving on or Pemsl leaves.

Greenlee probably isn't coming to Iowa and he's only a 2 star anyway so that wouldn't thrill the faithful. Good handle, decent looking shot though.

 

[RobHowe]

Thanks Rob.

I did notice as well that Rivals still has Greenlee 100% committed to Iowa. Not sure what to make of that either. Seems odd both 247 and Rivals have forgotten to update their site but then Greenlee probably isn't a high priority for them.

But who knows. Maybe Fran gently talks to Dailey about moving on or Pemsl leaves.

Greenlee probably isn't coming to Iowa and he's only a 2 star anyway so that wouldn't thrill the faithful. Good handle, decent looking shot though.

Those sites are much more up to date with football recruiting than basketball recruiting. I would not be surprised if they both forgot to update his page.

If Iowa were to have an open schollies, I would hope Fran would go after graduate transfers.