The reason we dropped so much after our last big class graduated is because the 3 classes after that had one really good player, one good bench player, and a bunch of busts. After this class graduates we have Wieskamp, Garza, and Nunge. That's already way better than last time. Then we have some other possibilities like Pemsl, Joe T, Patrick, and Connor. Not to mention any impactful freshman from the next big class.
Howe: Big Dance a Watershed Moment for Hawkeye Program
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The reason we dropped so much after our last big class graduated is because the 3 classes after that had one really good player, one good bench player, and a bunch of busts. After this class graduates we have Wieskamp, Garza, and Nunge. That's already way better than last time. Then we have some other possibilities like Pemsl, Joe T, Patrick, and Connor. Not to mention any impactful freshman from the next big class.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I just would never advise for a 5 man class regardless of the scenario. Obviously that class hurt us for several reasons.
Honestly as a program who isn’t consistently landing top flight talent we should be shooting to have 2-3 graduating seniors every year, similar to Wisconsin.
We just have not been able to balance our classes under Fran. This is the third strait year graduating 1 senior. The year following next we are scheduled to graduate 1 senior (Garza). Graduating only 1 senior in 4 out of 5 years is a terrible formula and frankly downright sad.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
the phrase "roster mismanagement" rings a bell
Depends on what you want. If you want the same results every season, what you are suggesting is a good idea. But a big senior class is also the best way to have a special season. The last one was a couple baskets in a couple games from a very memorable season. Maybe the next one will make the couple baskets. Or be lucky enough that the other team actually misses theirs.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Lol what? Having even classes means you have the same results every season? I don’t agree with that sorry. You can have special seasons with balanced classes.
Mine weren't updating last night either but are now. Fran must of sabotaged it
I was going by your reasoning. If you say you don't want a big class because we will be down after they graduate, you are the one saying unbalanced classes cause downs. It stand to reason that they would cause ups too. A class full of seniors is our best chance at a special season. That was my point and I think you agree with it.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry PC, we see many things in a similar way but I simply just don’t agree with this.
The way we will have a special season is when instate recruiting is good, we hit on one or two under the radar guys, and we have a good mix of verteran and younger players.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Give it up PC. Going back and forth with Nike is usually a reasonable exchange. But Nike has been spending a lot of time lately telling other posters how things are. I was shocked to learn that (in Nike’s mind) I use injuries as an excuse every time Iowa loses...even though Nike failed to produce posts to support this.
RobHowe
Administrator
The reason Garza is the only player in his class is because Connor and Nunge red shirted. They're now in Wieskamp's class, which lost Fredrick due to a redshirt. Pemsl is in Garza's class after red shirting. These are different than the last few years when it was through attrition.
There's just a lot of moving parts in college basketball these days with transfers, redshirts, injuries, etc. You do your best to balance classes but the most important thing is putting together the best roster annually.
There's just a lot of moving parts in college basketball these days with transfers, redshirts, injuries, etc. You do your best to balance classes but the most important thing is putting together the best roster annually.
Yeah the balancing act of class size is tough.. Every year is a new year anymore. This would be a bigger deal about 15-20 yrs ago when kids stayed 4-5 yrs. Now it's just go with the flow and cross bridges when you get to them
If the Iowa base, the AD, coaches, etc. etc. are pretty much content with average, (AKA Tremendous) assuming that is the only realistic place for Iowa to be, then we need to downgrade on our next hires and pay low to mid range salarys and contracts. That would be more logical, get by on the cheap, be average, and leave it at that. Fans will come anyhow. Why waste the $$$ and time planning on what won't happen. Now we are over paying, hoping for something that will never be with our current leadership, and perhaps, just being Iowa.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Sure. There are always reasons, but the last three years we have graduated only one senior in each class:
2017: Jok
2018: Uhl
2019: Baer
At a school like Iowa, that’s just not going to cut it, and the results bear that out. In each of those years, Fran could have sought out grad transfers, or other transfers to balance out the classes and improve those rosters, but he simply didn’t do it. Imagine a grad transfer to help Jok’s team, we likely make the dance with one.
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
I'm having the same problem. The site is no longer remembering where I left off.
RobHowe
Administrator
That's why I mentioned Garza class and not the others. His class is different and Iowa is trending the other way to more balanced classes. It can't go back and change the last three years. That resulted from empty recruiting classes from attrition, which I mentioned.
And if Fran would have added grad transfers after last year, he would have lost players from the roster. They would have left. That, I know. This year he would be replacing guys that already left. That's the difference.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I agree looking forward we are in a little better shape than we were.
But now you’re sort of asking to have it both ways. I’m saying we should have added a grad transfer in Jok’s year. On one hand you’re saying that would cause you to lose some players, but you’ve also mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread you need to put your best team on the floor each year. Jok’s senior year team lacked a True Center and Moss was starting at guard when he probably wasn’t ready. So a grad transfer would have improved our team that season in my estimation. A grad transfer guard this season would have upgraded our roster, Cmac and Dailey were well below average players statistically. If we lost one of the because of it so be it.
Again there is no easy answer to this whole roster management thing, on one hand you want to develop your younger players and on the other you want the best team out there in each year. It’s a balancing act and it’s by no means easy.
I agree with most of what you’ve said. Obviously we have hindsight on our sides. My main issue is the uneven classes and I really believe Fran could have corrected this in the many years he’s been here but for whatever reason he just hasn’t done it.
RobHowe
Administrator
Again, if Fran would have added grad transfers that last season, guys would have left the program. Same with other years. If he were to add them this year, it would be because guys were leaving. Otherwise, there are no open scholarships.
The goal is to put the best team on the floor each year. The equation changes every year. There are moving pieces. There isn't just one formula. Who can you bring in? Who will you lose because of it? Were Cook and Moss going to stay in the draft last season? Will Cook leave this year?
The misses in 2014 and '15 recruiting classes are the main reason things got out of whack in terms of balanced classes. Seven of the nine players (Dickerson, Ellingson, Hutton, Fleming, Wagner, Jones, Williams) signed in those classes didn't finish here. Uhl is the only one to finish so far. Moss would be the other if he comes back.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this earlier. Aren’t we in essence banking a scholarship right now?
9 guys in our rotation + Nunge + Pemsl + CJF.
That’s 12. Aren’t you allowed 13 schaolrships?
Or another way I look at it. Last year we lose Williams, graduate Uhl, lose Wagner and Ellingson. Gain Wieskamp, CJF gets scholly, Cmac gets Scholly. Should still be one ride?
