Last 5 minutes of last 5 games: 85.7% FGs (24-28) and 88.9% 3FGs (8-9)
Heartfelt congrats to ISU
- Thread starter okeefe4prez
- Start date
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
Why would you root for a team you're in direct competition with for recruiting? Not only that but a battle for who's the premier team in the state. Makes zero sense. I won't even touch on the hated rivalry as that shouldn't need any elaboration. Of course your rooting for any team is not going to effect them; that's not the point. Point is why would you wish someone well who's results have a direct effect on your supposed favorite team moving forward? I never said I rooted for any of those teams. In fact I despise every one of them save for Purdue.
Of course there are lots of recruits out there, but again, why cheer for a team that has been kicking your *** on the recruiting trail? They continue to pull in much, much better recruits with us and you just seem to be ok with this. That's fine, but others aren't and don't want to see Iowa State reach where it appears they're heading. And just b/c we aren't always recruiting the same player doesn't mean this recent success isn't benefiting them. They're often recruiting above us as well. We're looking to be like Clown football real soon in that we either hope there is a stud in-state recruit that is a legacy/diehard Iowa fan or we just won't be landing the same talent. I don't know how many more examples of how this isn't good for Iowa. I mean look at the new transfer we were all excited about. Do you th ink there is a chance in hell he comes here now? Fred has the absolute lockdown on any transfer he wants. I can't believe I even have to spell this out.
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DDThompson
Guest
* * DDThompson likes this * *
See, you're not making sense because you're using your brain instead of your emotion gland.
Doesn't matter how many times you say it. Doesn't matter how many different ways you say it. Doesn't matter how many reasons you give (yeah, like brothers are more important than Hawks....sheeesh, get with it). Doesn't matter how rooting to the tv in your family room, mancave, or bar doesn't effect game performance or recruiting or coaching or, whatever....
Some people just don't get it because they don't want to get it.
HawkMD2007
Well-Known Member
That's what we needed this year.
TheIowaHawkGuy
Well-Known Member
Iowa basketball is to Iowa State football as Iowa State basketball is to Iowa football.
HawkMD2007
Well-Known Member
Steve Alford was right then....Iowa is a football school.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
Pot meet kettle. Before you regurgitate the same recycled drivel, no one said that you rooting for Iowa State affects the result of the game(s) or recruiting. Iowa State winning games DOES affect recruiting. Iowa State winning games like this and advancing DOES affect recruiting; making it more difficult to recruit against them (in-state talent as well as out of state talent). Iowa State wiping the floor with Iowa continually DOES affecting recruiting; making it more difficult to recruit against them. Iowa State having success story after success story with transfers DOES affect recruiting; making it nearly impossible to recruit transfers that Iowa State wants. YES, all of this is going to happen whether or not you root for them. So...why would you then root for a team that with every win makes it harder to recruit, and in turn become better, for your favorite team? My brother went there and I'd just as soon pass a kidney stone than ever cheer for the Clowns. Doesn't mean I don't like/respect Hoiberg.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
What direct competition? ISU has been loading up on transfers that we never showed any interest in, and Niang is the only high school player Hoiberg landed that we were after. ISU has been better than Iowa the last couple years, and we still landed the top player in the state in each of the last two years. Hoiberg hasn't really outrecruited Fran at the high school level, at least when you look at players' ratings. Niang, Thomas and Morris are his best gets, and Fran has counted with White, Woody, Gesell and Jok. He's recruiting over Fran in the sense that he's getting transfers like White, Kane, Clyburn, etc. Guys who are already developed and have proven themselves at the D-1 level (White didn't do that, but he was a freak of nature).
Their success benefits them, sure. But if we're not competing for the same recruits, then their success doesn't hurt us. It doesn't prevent Fran from going out and getting top recruits and keeping pace with ISU in the recruiting arms race.
OakRaiders
Well-Known Member
If I am not mistaken. The hawks and clones have both improved the last 3 years. Before that both were awful and UNI was king of the state. If anything you could take it as both schools are again pushing each other on the court and becoming more successful.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Congrats to ISU. It's been fun watching their win streak over the past couple weeks. There's nothing wrong with saying that. You just make yourself look like a sourpuss if you whine about their success. They are doing what it takes to win when it matters most. Have to give them props for that.
The whole "clutch moment" thing is intriguing to me. Iowa State has been lights out during the clutch moments the past couple of weeks. They've hit game winning shots, and they've nailed threes when their back was against the wall and it looked like a loss was imminent. When you compare that to the struggles Iowa has had in late game situations the past couple of years it's like night and day.
I'm starting to attribute it to coaching. That's really the main difference here. I don't think ISU has a bunch more talent than Iowa. In fact, I know they don't have a bunch more talent than Iowa. They have a coach who is calm, cool, and collected almost all of the time. It looks to me like that demeanor is rubbing off on his team. Meanwhile, in Iowa City the Hawks have a loose cannon head coach, and his team can't keep their emotions in check at the end of ballgames. Coincidence? I don't think so. I seriously can't recall the last clutch basket an Iowa player made to win a game. I have no idea when it happened last, but it's been awhile. Naz Long has made more clutch shots in 3 weeks than Iowa's whole team has made in years. I love Fran as the Hawkeye coach. I don't want to see him replaced, but I can't help but compare the Hawks late game failures to the Cyclones late game heroics.
The whole "clutch moment" thing is intriguing to me. Iowa State has been lights out during the clutch moments the past couple of weeks. They've hit game winning shots, and they've nailed threes when their back was against the wall and it looked like a loss was imminent. When you compare that to the struggles Iowa has had in late game situations the past couple of years it's like night and day.
I'm starting to attribute it to coaching. That's really the main difference here. I don't think ISU has a bunch more talent than Iowa. In fact, I know they don't have a bunch more talent than Iowa. They have a coach who is calm, cool, and collected almost all of the time. It looks to me like that demeanor is rubbing off on his team. Meanwhile, in Iowa City the Hawks have a loose cannon head coach, and his team can't keep their emotions in check at the end of ballgames. Coincidence? I don't think so. I seriously can't recall the last clutch basket an Iowa player made to win a game. I have no idea when it happened last, but it's been awhile. Naz Long has made more clutch shots in 3 weeks than Iowa's whole team has made in years. I love Fran as the Hawkeye coach. I don't want to see him replaced, but I can't help but compare the Hawks late game failures to the Cyclones late game heroics.
Marble hit a clutch shot and guarded Tenn best offensive player on the last play to send it to OT.
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
Direct competition as in head to head. Hasn't been a whole lot of battles yet as you stated they've gone the transfer route a lot. But when Iowa does produce talented kids, ISU's success is going to be a huge factor when competing for said kids, is it not? We lost out on Niang. We were after Clark too, but he eliminated both Iowa schools. However, Iowa was eliminated much earlier than ISU if we were even really considered. Hoiberg is very much recruiting over Fran. Now Lee has a visit to ISU scheduled, but guess where he doesn't have one? Really sucks to say, but not sure how you could view it any other way. You just can't. Morris is an absolute stud and was a top 50 kid. Thomas a top 50 kid. Niang a top 75 kid. Custer a top 50 kid. Sure Gesell was top 100 and so was Woodbury, but you can't tell me you wouldn't swap those 2 for any of the 2 I just listed that Fred landed. And that's the whole idea; to at LEAST recruit on par with Iowa State (which we're clearly not doing).
Their success does hurt us. As stated before, the goal IS for Iowa to recruit at that level. We're not competing with them currently for the same recruits mainly b/c we don't have a chance with those types of recruits that aren't inside the state of Iowa or have very close ties to Iowa. So every game that Iowa State wins, and every big game that Iowa p*sses away, the gap widens. This isn't the 80's and Fran is not Callipari. We're not going to reach the level of Iowa State recruiting w/o winning. Winning is exponentially more difficult when you don't have the horses. Vicious circle. So why not wish/hope that the better team in your own state falls apart? Why cheer for the team that continues to own you both on the floor and off (recruiting)?
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Yep, and had Marble played clutch in the other 30+ minutes of the game he was in, Iowa would have won by 10.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Was Iowa ever actually confirmed to have interest? I don't remember seeing anything that solidly said Iowa was after him.
As for Gesell/Woody compared to Hoiberg's recruits, the results after they arrive on campus don't matter for the purposes of this discussion. Fran beat North Carolina to land Woody. He was highly touted, and ISU's success had no sway with him.
When there's so little direct competition, I guess I don't see the big deal if ISU has success. They can go after Thomas, we can go get Hutton. Without direct competition, ISU's success doesn't really hurt Iowa. We can go get equally good players elsewhere...or not, but if we can't get players that ISU isn't going after, that's a "me" problem for Fran, not Hoiberg's/ISU's fault.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I recalled that shot, but we still didn't win the game. Besides the fact Marble has had a dozen other opportunities to hit clutch shots and has failed to do so. The point remains the same. The Hawks are awful during clutch moments. They rarely make clutch shots, and when they do they fail to capitalize on them.
Its funny you brought up the Hoiberg & Ferentz comparison. I thought of that myself since yesterday. I think they are both great coaches. Several basketball broadcasts have mentioned Hoiberg and the quiet confidence it gives the players, etc. Ferentz unfairly gets ripped by Iowa fans for not caring because he has a cool, calm demeanor. For some reason when things go bad some fans want to explain that as not caring enough about the performance or not having passion. I think its pretty silly when they make that accusation.
I can't deny that Iowa has missed some chances at end of game shots. That could boil down to talent and coaching. Iowa only has one player who can create at the end of the shot clock with consistency and that is Devyn. Devyn is good, not great but when everyone knows he is the one who has to create to get a shot or pass to a team mate for a shot teams can focus on him. It can be a coaching issue in that Iowa sets ball screens for Devyn at times bringing another defender to make things more difficult. If you watched the end of the ISU game yesterday ISU just cleared the lane and let Kane create. They did not set a screen or have a post player around the lane, eveyone spread out wide and then crashed the glass for a put back if need be.
To your point of Devyn could have played better earlier not requiring a need for late game heroics. Well there were plenty of games this year where Devyn put up 25 points early and Iowa still needed late game heroics.
Some of it is luck too. It would be funny if next year Iowa hits 3-4 game wining shots as that is how things work out at times.
Iowa just does not have a lot of talented players to create in those end of clock situations when defense really ramps up. I mean you will see guys do some things at times at the 13 min mark of the first half but that is not when the D is always clamping down to it's fullest.
