End of Season Conclusions

[Hawk90]

The haters keep invoking Lute, Ralph and Mr. Davis. (Remember that Raveling was basically run out of town by the fan base at the time, mostly due to criticism of his outside interests and his skin color.)

Ralph had peaked and was trending down. Mr. Davis, after starting at a high level was trending down except for the last season (it was announced it would be his last season before it started). Lute peaked in the middle of his years at Iowa; I remember many wanting to run Lute out of town due to losing to Wichita St in the tournament (by trying to stall the entire second half away).

It seems the farther back in history our former coaches get, the greater they were.

Your argument doesn't jibe with the facts. Lute had an almost identical record his last year as his Final Four year; 23-10 vs 21-10. Ralph Miller won the Big 10 championship, with an undefeated record and was 20-5. He was at the top of his game!... and then he left. Mr. Davis made the Sweet 16 his final year. All three of those were great coaches, the first two among the greatest. Mr. Davis could coach, but not recruit.

So yes, the bar is high....I would argue that the Alford/Lick years are the anomaly in Hawkeye BBall history, not the norm. And remember the NCAA wide open field of 64, now 68 is relatively new. Fran has had six years, this should have been his peak year....because of the seniors. Are the expectations so low after Alfraud and Lick that mediocrity is now accepted? Not a hater, I want Iowa to be the best......why don't you?

 

[deanvogs]

Your argument doesn't jibe with the facts. Lute had an almost identical record his last year as his Final Four year; 23-10 vs 21-10. Ralph Miller won the Big 10 championship, with an undefeated record and was 20-5. He was at the top of his game!... and then he left. Mr. Davis made the Sweet 16 his final year. All three of those were great coaches, the first two among the greatest. Mr. Davis could coach, but not recruit.

So yes, the bar is high....I would argue that the Alford/Lick years are the anomaly in Hawkeye BBall history, not the norm. And remember the NCAA wide open field of 64, now 68 is relatively new. Fran has had six years, this should have been his peak year....because of the seniors. Are the expectations so low after Alfraud and Lick that mediocrity is now accepted? Not a hater, I want Iowa to be the best......why don't you?

If Lute was awesome at 21-10 (10-8 in the B1G) and 23-10 (10-8 in the B1G), then why isn't Fran doing ok at 22-10 (12-6 in the B1G) and 22-12 (12-6 in the B1G)?

I'm sure you would have been totally ok with Lute's first 4 years at Iowa. In year 4 he was 12-15 (5-13 in the B1G), and had yet to make the NCAA's.

You don't just fire a guy who has taken the program that was a complete and total joke, and turned them into back, to back, to back NCAA teams. I'm sure many like you wanted to fired Lute in year 4, because "you don't accept mediocrity". DERP.

 

[Knight78]

Your argument doesn't jibe with the facts. Lute had an almost identical record his last year as his Final Four year; 23-10 vs 21-10. Ralph Miller won the Big 10 championship, with an undefeated record and was 20-5. He was at the top of his game!... and then he left. Mr. Davis made the Sweet 16 his final year. All three of those were great coaches, the first two among the greatest. Mr. Davis could coach, but not recruit.

So yes, the bar is high....I would argue that the Alford/Lick years are the anomaly in Hawkeye BBall history, not the norm. And remember the NCAA wide open field of 64, now 68 is relatively new. Fran has had six years, this should have been his peak year....because of the seniors. Are the expectations so low after Alfraud and Lick that mediocrity is now accepted? Not a hater, I want Iowa to be the best......why don't you?

Lute changed his offensive philosophy after his Final Four year. He coached not to lose. We lost to Wichita St by 5 after trying to stall the entire second half away. We lost to Idaho in overtime trying to stall most of the second half and the entire overtime period away. Record-wise, we were similar to the 1979-80 team; the team philosophy was quite different.

Yes, Ralph left on an undefeated record. The year before he was 8th in the Big 10. The year before that he won the Big 10. Consistent? Not so much. He must not have been happy at Iowa, though. He coached at three different schools: Wichita St for 13 seasons, Iowa for 6 seasons and Oregon St for 19 seasons. He did get in trouble and OSU had to forfeit 15 games 1975-76; perhaps he saw something coming from his recruiting Connie Hawkins?

Mr. Davis had a unique style. I would submit that it was the unique style that he coached that led to the illusion that he was a good coach more than he was actually a good coach.

Now, you state that "Fran has had six years, this should have been his peak year". Looking at it that way, only Ralph and Lute met that criteria. Although it could be said that Lute's team had to fight through the Lester injury during the Big 10 season. And Ralph, while going undefeated in the Big 10, only went to the Sweet 16. Mr. Davis failed miserably by finishing 19-11 and 5th in the Big 10.

I DO want Iowa to be the best. So what do we do? Fire Fran and hire the National Coach of the Year? That worked so well for us last time.

 

[Hawk90]

Year 6....Year 6 there Deaner, read! In year 6 Lute had Iowa in the Final Four. Year 5 they won a Big 10 Championship.

 

[Hawk90]

Lute changed his offensive philosophy after his Final Four year. He coached not to lose. We lost to Wichita St by 5 after trying to stall the entire second half away. We lost to Idaho in overtime trying to stall most of the second half and the entire overtime period away. Record-wise, we were similar to the 1979-80 team; the team philosophy was quite different.

Yes, Ralph left on an undefeated record. The year before he was 8th in the Big 10. The year before that he won the Big 10. Consistent? Not so much. He must not have been happy at Iowa, though. He coached at three different schools: Wichita St for 13 seasons, Iowa for 6 seasons and Oregon St for 19 seasons. He did get in trouble and OSU had to forfeit 15 games 1975-76; perhaps he saw something coming from his recruiting Connie Hawkins?

Mr. Davis had a unique style. I would submit that it was the unique style that he coached that led to the illusion that he was a good coach more than he was actually a good coach.

Now, you state that "Fran has had six years, this should have been his peak year". Looking at it that way, only Ralph and Lute met that criteria. Although it could be said that Lute's team had to fight through the Lester injury during the Big 10 season. And Ralph, while going undefeated in the Big 10, only went to the Sweet 16. Mr. Davis failed miserably by finishing 19-11 and 5th in the Big 10.

I DO want Iowa to be the best. So what do we do? Fire Fran and hire the National Coach of the Year? That worked so well for us last time.

No, I am under no illusion that Fran will be fired this year, and I really don't think that he should. But like Kirk, I hope that there is enough pressure for him to re-examine his program and make some changes. I also do not believe that Iowa will be better next year....too young. There is nothing unhealthy about the fanbase getting restless and having higher expectations. But the whole "look what happened the last time we did this with Mr. Davis" is just hogwash. This school, this program should expect to win a B1G championship every decade, we should expect to make the tourney........68 teams! And for christsake it is not acceptable to have the third best basketball program in this state and lose to the clowns every year.

 

[BryceC]

I think it's completely fair to say I think Fran has definitely outperformed my expectations the last few years. I think he is like Ferentz in that he is best at identifying under the radar talent and getting the most out of it.

I also think it's fair to question what his ceiling is, and question why Iowa has struggled down the stretch and in close games.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

During their hot stretch they were shooting lights out as a team... and the defense was solid.

As they started to struggle with their shooting the defense got worse. The defense against Villanova was god awful in the first half.

The biggest problem on this team was it's lack of scoring punch outside two players... Earlier in the year Mike G had some 20 pt plus games... he disappeared offensively nearly the entire rest of the season.

We were just way to easy to guard.. get up in Uthoff's space... play close attention to Jok.

And even if they get theirs the rest of the team will get nothing and you can still win.

 

[Bluesman]

The team's overall record was fine as far as I'm concerned; however the way they arrived at it was a bit of a downer. Crumbling down the stretch 2 of the last 3 years is a bit deflating and both of those teams clearly carried that over into the NCAA tourney.

This team had shortcomings. A point guard who couldn't shoot from the perimeter and couldn't finish at the basket either. A big man inside with limited mobility and virtually no offensive skills. No real offensive options outside of Uthoff and Jok. No above average defenders outside of Uthoff. I think considering the talent on the team they had a decent season. I actually think there is a real chance next years team is better; there were better athletes sitting on the bench than were playing this year and I think some of the new guys coming in can have an immediate impact as well. I'm not pessimistic about next year at all.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Walker....I'm beinning to think you are FRANtastics business agent

business is pretty good. Not great, but pretty good.

Fran isn't an elite coach, but he's done a pretty good job. At least to this point, good enough that calling for his head is asinine. That's all I'm saying.

Fran has weaknesses and does a few things (or doesn't do a few things) that frustrate me as well. I'm simply not delusional enough to think I know more or care more than he does. He may not be able to get us higher, but he sure as helll has earned more time to find out.

But that's message boards.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

A strong possibility that Hawknick & HawkeyeWalker are related.

I'm on the optimistic side, but cmon.

It does amaze me how he still is able to get under so many people's skin still.

Calling for Fran's job and stating he's an awful coach is just as asinine as what Duff/Ghost/Hawknick/ClintonIAfan posts. Actually, it's far worse.

 

[Hawk4Fan]

Walker, I respect you as a poster, and you are more reasonable than I am, but losing by 19 isn't respectable. Our starters cutting the deficit against their backups isn't a sign of mental toughness. It's a pure talent issue. The game was over. Villanova wasn't trying at that point.

Considering Nova didn't have all their starters out till less than a minute left in the game your smoking something

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I think it's completely fair to say I think Fran has definitely outperformed my expectations the last few years. I think he is like Ferentz in that he is best at identifying under the radar talent and getting the most out of it.

I also think it's fair to question what his ceiling is, and question why Iowa has struggled down the stretch and in close games.

Bryce, just become a Hawkeye fan. You know you want to. You're far too logical to be a clone fan

 

[BryceC]

I am a Hawkeye fan. I just root for the clones too. Heck I picked Cory Clark in my wrestling bracket too.

I have a rule that I subtract 1 win from Iowa State when I project how I think Iowa State will do, and I always add 1 when it comes to Iowa basketball. I'm adding two after the last few years.

 

[ColumbusHawk]

The haters keep invoking Lute, Ralph and Mr. Davis. (Remember that Raveling was basically run out of town by the fan base at the time, mostly due to criticism of his outside interests and his skin color.)

Ralph had peaked and was trending down. Mr. Davis, after starting at a high level was trending down except for the last season (it was announced it would be his last season before it started). Lute peaked in the middle of his years at Iowa; I remember many wanting to run Lute out of town due to losing to Wichita St in the tournament (by trying to stall the entire second half away).

It seems the farther back in history our former coaches get, the greater they were.

What? Ralph won the B1G two of his last three seasons. In his last four years, Ralph was twenty games over five-hundred in the conference. Remember, the B1G only played fourteen games. Ralph's winning percentage in the conference those four years was 67.9%. I wish Iowa had more coaches trending downward like Ralph.

From '79 through '82, Lute was twenty-four games over five-hundred for a winning percentage of 66.7%. Lute's last season was '83 & the Hawks made the Sweet 16.

In the last thirty-three seasons, Iowa has won at least two-thirds of its B1G games in a season only six times. Iowa should find more trending downward coaches like Ralph & Lute!

 

[PCHawk]

What? Ralph won the B1G two of his last three seasons. In his last four years, Ralph was twenty games over five-hundred in the conference. Remember, the B1G only played fourteen games. Ralph's winning percentage in the conference those four years was 67.9%. I wish Iowa had more coaches trending downward like Ralph.

From '79 through '82, Lute was twenty-four games over five-hundred for a winning percentage of 66.7%. Lute's last season was '83 & the Hawks made the Sweet 16.

In the last thirty-three seasons, Iowa has won at least two-thirds of its B1G games in a season only six times. Iowa should find more trending downward coaches like Ralph & Lute!

Are the last 2 years included in those 6 years?

 

[PCHawk]

Anyone who thinks Woody, Gesell, and Sapp suck should think Fran is the greatest game day coach of all time. I think those 3 guys are decent and Jok and Uthoff are good. Even if you have 3 decent starters and 2 good ones (which is more credit than most here will give) it's impossible to go 12-6 in the Big 10 with terrible coaching. When everything about your team is terrible, you're Rutgers and Minnesota.

I haven't seen a single post on here that said these players are too good to have this bad of record. That's when you know you have bad coaching.

 

[ColumbusHawk]

Are the last 2 years included in those 6 years?

Yes, just shows how Iowa basketball has sucked over the last thirty-three years. Davis won at least two-thirds of the games in the conference three times, Alford once, & Fran the last two seasons. Of course Raveling never did it. Throw out the last two years & Iowa won at least two-thirds of the conference games in a season four times. In the last two years, Fran has accomplished something that Iowa only did four times in the previously thirty-one years. I think that is pretty impressive. Plus, Fran didn't inherit Armstrong, Gamble, Horton, Jones, Lorenzen, Louhaus, Marble, Moe & Wright. In his last eleven seasons, Davis only won two-thirds of the conference games once.

 

[PCHawk]

Yes, just shows how Iowa basketball has sucked over the last thirty-three years. Davis won at least two-thirds of the games in the conference three times, Alford once, & Fran the last two seasons. Of course Raveling never did it. Throw out the last two years & Iowa won at least two-thirds of the conference games in a season four times. In the last two years, Fran has accomplished something that Iowa only did four times in the previously thirty-one years. I think that is pretty impressive. Plus, Fran didn't inherit Armstrong, Gamble, Horton, Jones, Lorenzen, Louhaus, Marble, Moe & Wright. In his last eleven seasons, Davis only won two-thirds of the conference games once.

And Fran did that with players that some people think suck. How can you accomplish such a rare feat with crappy players when you're a terrible coach?

 

[docholihawk]

Raveling was a great recruiter but his coaching left a lot of questions. He underachieved based on the talent he had.

 

[Stanzi]

End of season conclusions mean discussing coaches from 30 years ago? I feel like this thread went off the rails. Back on topic...

Fran is a good coach and it would be foolish to get rid of him. Villanova looked like a legitimate championship contender. The Gonzaga team that whooped us last season just destroyed both teams it faced in the first two rounds who were both higher seeds than we were. Blowout losses suck but at least they were both to really good teams. We have some enticing recruits for the next few seasons. I'm willing to give Fran a few seasons to show what he can do with more athletic players.