Yes, I am tired of the sound resonating out of the echo chamber known as the legends, defend any coach no matter how poor his coaching is, 'cause we are just little ole' Iowa and should expect nothing better. I hear you guys on the Kirk and Fran call-in shows, always the same, "Gee coach you are doing a wonderful job, what did you have for breakfast this morning." The sounds of hero worship and low expectations. Have some pride.
End of Season Conclusions
- Thread starter deanvogs
- Start date
Go back and watch the game. Villanova starters came into the game with very little time left only to go back out soon afterwards.
I thought it was a nice gesture by their coach for the seniors.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Where is the Hero worship from me? I have been very critical of Fran in the past. I still would like to see he offense change, I still think he needs to lose the big blowups and be more calm on the sidelines (he did better this year, but could do even better in the future). I think he is too loyal to some of his guys in the past and needed to move on from them quicker (McCabe, Ellingson) and even Olesani over Woody more a couple years ago.
Nobody is performing hero worship around here 90. This program was BURIED when Fran got here. He has now accomplished things that haven not been done since some of the heydays of this program (late 80's and early 90's) Going to 3 straight NCAA tournaments. Winning 33 B1G games over 3 years. Most winning set of Sr. in the program since the late 80's I think.
You don't get to have it both way 90's. You don't get to say that someone posters around here are performing hero worship, and then pretend that the program is in a shambles. Overall the program is the healthiest it has been since the early 90's. It is simply a fact supported by data. Fran can and must do better to take us to the "next level" that everyone here wants (I wanted Mr. Davis to get us there as well). The last coach able to do that was Lute, but hopefully Fran can get it done with the athletic set of players he has in the program now, and the top talent coming in over the next 3 years (top 100 player Cook, Pemsl, Kreiner, and Bohannon), (top 100 player Conner), (to 50 player Weiscamp), (top 50 player Patrick). There shouldn't be panic on HN, there should be optimism for the future IMO. That is just the way I see it when I look at all the facts. If you see it differently, then fine, but stop playing the martyr and crying about attacks, all the while attacking away at anyone with differing opinions.
I agree with most of your post. In a another post I pointed out that I didn't think Fran should be fired. I do think Barta should give him clear expectations.....and maybe he has. He should be given a chance with the recruits he has coming in. But my concern, and you alluded to it in your post, is that expectations are so low after Alford/Lick that just getting back to a respectable program is enough for some Iowa fans. There are concerns with Fran's coaching that you mentioned above. But the fact that so many fans are gun-shy based on the post Mr. Davis drama that just being a respectable program seems good enough.
We finished tied for 3rd the last two years. If seen people say they don't count because tie breakers. If anything, they should count more because of lopsided schedules. This year we played more of the top teams than anyone else. Last year, Wisconsin was all but a guaranteed loss for anyone who played them. The teams we tied with only played them once.
Being a respectable program is good enough for now. It shouldn't be in a few more years.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, the bar does need to be raised on the goals/expectations. Fran has done an incredible job resurrecting this basketball program but can he take that next step?
atomicblue224
Well-Known Member
How about them Gators! I'm wearing Florida Gators .
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The expectations were low now for a reason (climbing out of a Alraud/Lick crater). I don't think the expectations will remain the same over time. That is the nature of sports. For instance many didn't even expect this team to make the NCAA's this year, and were expected to finish 9th by most "experts". Now people are ticked off that we didn't win the B1G because expectations changed during the season. People are ticked that we didn't make the sweet 16. Expectations are always changing.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Spot on.
When the Hawks made the NIT in 2012 people were excited because of what the previous 5 years had looked like. If the Hawks are in the NIT next year, people won't be thrilled. It's all relative and depends on which way you're trending as a program.
Naturally, people will always want more and more, so there does have to come a time where you say it's "good enough". Ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers as to what they're satisfied with.
As PC said above, 2nd round NCAA appearances are good enough for now since it hasn't been done in a while, but over time, you want to see them break into the Sweet 16 or further on occasion.
If things regress from here, then yeah, easy choice - move on. If we stay at Mr. Davis level (2nd round loss every year) then that's where it gets to be a tough call. It's tough to run a guy who's done a solid job, but I'm not jumping up and down about 2nd round blowouts, either. But, for now, it's nice being back in the NCAA's.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Totally agree on the Mr. Davis type results call. You will get some very heated discussion on this type of thing when you are saying that yeah he is successful........just not successful enough.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Only time will tell. Fran does seem to have a pipeline of good players coming, so I'm optimistic.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
For sure.
I'm sort of in the "be careful what you wish for" camp, but admit that it could work out fine, too. I know one thing, I sure wouldn't want the AD to make a move without having someone good lined up, first. I'd rather keep the status quo until the time is right.
Obviously this is all very premature. Mark me down as hoping Fran continues to build this program into what we'd all like to see. I like the guy - but the jury is still out on what things will look like in 3-5 years.
I still think recruiting an All-B10 caliber PG would make a huge difference.
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Tiptontiger
Well-Known Member
The thing that gets me is people who say this is Fran's ceiling. As long as you have a solid roster like we do now, all it takes is a Marble or Uthoff type player to raise the ceiling even more. This year, Uthoff's team was a fairly solid group and we had a team that was capable of finishing a little better than they did. Put Uthoff with the surrounding cast it looks like we will have in the very near future and we blow threw the "ceiling" Fran has now. Put a player like Uthoff but with a killer instinct on this year's team, we also blow threw that ceiling.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
This is a general statement not directed at anyone in particular...just an observation. I don't want to hire a John Groce or Richard Pitino. Tubby and Weber were better. Collins looks like a better coach on paper but he hasn't done anything yet to convince me he was better than Carmody...got Holy Cross to the NCAA this year with a losing record. I like Chambers but he hasn't done anything in his 5 years.
Everyone knows I like Fran and want him at Iowa. And I think he's just scratching the surface. But changing coaches is a tricky deal. Most agree that we're at least back to the Tom Davis level...and he has been gone since 1999. That's a long time to wait IMO.
Everyone knows I like Fran and want him at Iowa. And I think he's just scratching the surface. But changing coaches is a tricky deal. Most agree that we're at least back to the Tom Davis level...and he has been gone since 1999. That's a long time to wait IMO.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I like Fran too and don't know if he has or has not reached his ceiling, but I'd like to see him stick around for at least a few more years to see how much further he can take this thing.
I said earlier in this thread, that I'd rather keep the status quo and remain "OK" until the time is right instead of firing your coach and then go shopping. That goes for Fran and KF. That strategy rarely seems to work, unless you're a blue blood that can go out and lure away just about anyone you want. Frankly, I think after Lickliter, we got pretty lucky to even get a coach like Fran that could get us back to dancing again. Many programs fire their coach and continue to suck..
If your coach isn't cutting it, it's an easy choice, but there would have to be a deal pretty much already in place with someone really, really solid before I'd want to pull the trigger on a Mr. Davis type scenario again. I'm not saying "don't do it", but that you just have to be really sure of where you're headed when you do.
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Iowa has gotten better every year and will continue to get better under the coaching staff. It should be fun watching the new guys along with Jok next year. The team is going to look a lot different. The team has pretty much looked the same in a lot of ways with Gesell and Woodbury as the foundation of the last four years with Fran upgrading the talent every year. I think the coaching staff has done a great job. The coaching staff are getting better and better recruits every year. When Fran took the job he saw it as a process, and it continues to be an upward process.
Iowa has either won a Big 10 Championship, or been in the Elite 8 every decade since the 30s'.....except for the past 16 years. Even Stevie won a B1G tournament a couple of times. I do not think that Iowa is a basket-case coaching graveyard some would have us believe. We can get a good coach if Fran decides to leave, or does not perform in the next few years. We have good facilities, a good fanbase, and plenty of money. There are plenty of up-and-coming coaches that would love to coach here, if for no other reason than to get to a blue-blood someday.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
Including the last two years, Iowa has won at least two-thirds of its conference games in a season only six times since Lute left. That is thirty-three years people. In other words, prior to last year, the Hawks had won two-thirds of its B1G games in a season only four times in the previous thirty-one years. All Fran has to do next year is win one conference game & he will have the same conference record in years three through seven as Mr. Davis. In comparing the two, I throw out the first two seasons because Davis inherited Armstrong, Horton, Gamble, Jones, Lohaus, Lorenzen, Marble, Moe & Wright; whereas Fran inherited Lick recruits.
