2019 Tyreke Locure

deanvogs said:
I meant we need ANOTHER player who is a PF, as Patrick isn’t a PF and will never grow into being one. Patrick is a SF, he doesn’t need to weigh 220-240 lbs
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You can say power forward, small forward, or even tiny forward. Doesn’t matter.

Show me one Big Ten forward less than 205 lbs. I’ll help you out, there isn’t one (feel free to check, don’t take my word for it). Better yet, show me one starting Big Ten forward under 220. I wouldn’t waste much time.

I’m not hating on the kid, it’s just a fact. Cancer effed him up good and that’s not his fault at all. He’d have to put on 30 lbs in one year just to be the smallest in the Big Ten at his spot. It ain’t happening. You can deride me all you want but it doesn’t change data...guys with that frame size don’t make it in P5 basketball and there’s nothing that says he’s going to be any different.
 
Fryowa said:
You're basically trying to Mel Kuiperize high school recruits. It's not a draft but you're still trying to analyze talent without seeing any reliable predictors. College ball isn't the NFL, and the Big Ten is definitely not Iowa AAU.

Guys like him and McShay do that for a living with way more info than you, and they miss more than half the time when they predict who's going to be the best players..
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No I get that. I've argued your side of the argument as well. I was just responding to someone else who said point blank that Carton is a better recruit than Locure and I corrected him saying "probably" is the best way to put it. Carton is a top 50 recruit and I don't even think Locure is rated. There is a correlation between ratings and actual performance.

Let me put it this way. Would I bet my house that Carton will be better than Locure? Not a chance. Would I bet $100 on it? You bet.
 
Fryowa said:
You can say power forward, small forward, or even tiny forward. Doesn’t matter.

Show me one Big Ten forward less than 205 lbs. I’ll help you out, there isn’t one (feel free to check, don’t take my word for it). Better yet, show me one starting Big Ten forward under 220. I wouldn’t waste much time.

I’m not hating on the kid, it’s just a fact. Cancer effed him up good and that’s not his fault at all. He’d have to put on 30 lbs in one year just to be the smallest in the Big Ten at his spot. It ain’t happening. You can deride me all you want but it doesn’t change data...guys with that frame size don’t make it in P5 basketball and there’s nothing that says he’s going to be any different.
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Most teams are going with 3 guards, sometimes 4 of them. How the heck did Nova win the title then with guys like this:

Brunson 200 lbs
Bridges 190 lbs
Divincenzo 200 lbs
Paschall 205 lbs
Booth 185 lbs

The only double digit scorer they had that was over 205 lbs was Spellman, they had 4 guys under 205 lbs plus one big guy. Now according to you they need to have a 3 man that is 220 lbs or more? LOL man, get with the times.

If you think that our 3rd guard or 3 man should be over 220 lbs, then you like Fran are way behind how BB is played now. That is the problem, we trot out guys like Nunge at 6'11 220 lbs and tell them to guard the Charles Matthews, Duncan Robinson at Michigan (both under 200 lbs) on the wing. We need to play more 3 guard lineups, or have a SF like Marble (200 lbs) who has the quickness to guard the others plays 3 man who is typically just a 3rd guard now a days.
 
deanvogs said:
Most teams are going with 3 guards, sometimes 4 of them. How the heck did Nova win the title then with guys like this:
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Whoa.....

We don't play in the Big East. Not even close.

How did Villanova win the title? They fly around and move the ball, shoot way more, and rely on their point guards. Jay Wright has said numerous times that he's fine with his players shooting a ton even though they miss because it shows they have confidence in their shots. It's an entirely different style of basketball tailored to that style of player.
deanvogs said:
If you think that our 3rd guard or 3 man should be over 220 lbs, then you like Fran are way behind how BB is played now.
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Welcome to the Big Ten, where Iowa actually plays. The B1G game is slow, lumbering basketball with monster forwards and centers. Even non-basketball people could easily see as much during the tournament when they'd watch the different conferences playing each other.

Going back to my previous post you obviously can't point out any super undersized B1G forwards because there aren't any. But, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State...they must all be behind the times like Fran right? What sense does it make to imagine McCaffery in the Big East or ACC as opposed to where he actually plays? Unless you're trying to deflect the debate in a different direction.
 
Fryowa said:
Whoa.....

We don't play in the Big East. Not even close.

How did Villanova win the title? They fly around and move the ball, shoot way more, and rely on their point guards. Jay Wright has said numerous times that he's fine with his players shooting a ton even though they miss because it shows they have confidence in their shots. It's an entirely different style of basketball tailored to that style of player.
Welcome to the Big Ten, where Iowa actually plays. The B1G game is slow, lumbering basketball with monster forwards and centers. Even non-basketball people could easily see as much during the tournament when they'd watch the different conferences playing each other.

Going back to my previous post you obviously can't point out any super undersized B1G forwards because there aren't any. But, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State...they must all be behind the times like Fran right? What sense does it make to imagine McCaffery in the Big East or ACC as opposed to where he actually plays? Unless you're trying to deflect the debate in a different direction.
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Playing the wing position isn't about size, it is about athleticism. For instance Eric May could play the wing at 220, because he was athletic enough. Marble could play on the wing at 200, because he was athletic enough. Pete could also play the 3 at 200 lbs. Vince Edwards played the wing at 220 because he was an athletic freak, not because he is 220.

Also what about Michigan who was the best in the B1G at the end of the year, and beat everyone easily with wings that were NOT 220 or bigger? The game is played differently. If we were to have a Vince Edwards on the wing who is 6'7, 220 lbs, then great. If we had a wing like Matthews that is 6'6 and 190 lbs then great. It is about having a player who is quick enough, can handle the ball and make shots on the wing. It isn't about about being a certain weight.
 
deanvogs said:
Playing the wing position isn't about size, it is about athleticism. For instance Eric May could play the wing at 220, because he was athletic enough. Marble could play on the wing at 200, because he was athletic enough. Pete could also play the 3 at 200 lbs. Vince Edwards played the wing at 220 because he was an athletic freak, not because he is 220.

Also what about Michigan who was the best in the B1G at the end of the year, and beat everyone easily with wings that were NOT 220 or bigger? The game is played differently. If we were to have a Vince Edwards on the wing who is 6'7, 220 lbs, then great. If we had a wing like Matthews that is 6'6 and 190 lbs then great. It is about having a player who is quick enough, can handle the ball and make shots on the wing. It isn't about about being a certain weight.
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We can argue this till we're blue in the face.

I'll leave off with this...

No 170-ish basketball player who isn't a guard plays ball in the P-5. He's got 30 pounds to go to get to Marble (as you mentioned) or Uthoff, and that's just not going to happen in a year or even two. I get that you think I'm putting too much of an emphasis on weight, but size is something you can't substitute for. He's going to get pushed around and manhandled. It's physics. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
 
Adam said:
Aren't the reach in rules the same in high school? Either way a good defender should adapt quickly.
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The reach rules may be the same, but the caliber of athlete that he guards is completely different.... unless you're saying that all the PGs in the CIML will be Big 10 PGs.
 
Fryowa said:
We can argue this till we're blue in the face.

I'll leave off with this...

No 170-ish basketball player who isn't a guard plays ball in the P-5. He's got 30 pounds to go to get to Marble (as you mentioned) or Uthoff, and that's just not going to happen in a year or even two. I get that you think I'm putting too much of an emphasis on weight, but size is something you can't substitute for. He's going to get pushed around and manhandled. It's physics. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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I agree that 170is needs development. I only said the 190-200 wings are just fine, you see them all the time at the P6 level.
 
tksirius said:

The point guard scores 22 points along with 10 assists.
The shooting guard scores 25 points along with 9 rebounds.

Can you see why I want Iowa to have Locure at the #1 and Carton at the #2?

BTW, both Carton & Locure averaged 5.7 rebounds a game this past high school season.
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Their two teams played at grossly different paces, though, with Des Moines North averaging somewhere close to 2x more possessions per game (I know we went around on the per possession stats earlier, but I am too lazy to look up specifics).
 
deanvogs said:
Not sure how Locure assists have any affect on what DJ is?

DJ is super athletic, has great handles, has an almost 40" verticle, can finish at the rim, and doesn't shot very well from the outside. But you wanna put him out on the wing and not have the ball in his hand where he can drive and finish at the rim?

Now if you are saying that Locure is just such an elite level PG, that he will push DJ (the #30 ranked player in the country), out to the wing, then I guess you view Locure as a 5* PG type.
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No reason why an explosive wing can't drive and finish at the rim. It is good to have people who can drive, and good to have people who can shoot. Nothing says one needs to be a point guard and the other needs to be a #2. There many examples of attacking wings in the NBA game who have been complemented nicely by sweet-shooting PGs (think MJ and Armstrong/Paxson/Kerr).
 
CP87 said:
No reason why an explosive wing can't drive and finish at the rim. It is good to have people who can drive, and good to have people who can shoot. Nothing says one needs to be a point guard and the other needs to be a #2. There many examples of attacking wings in the NBA game who have been complemented nicely by sweet-shooting PGs (think MJ and Armstrong/Paxson/Kerr).
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Yeah, my point about that is that Locure is more adept at passing after driving in the lane than Carton is. However, Carton is probably better at finishing at the rim, although Locure isn't too shabby at it for being shorter.
 
CP87 said:
Their two teams played at grossly different paces, though, with Des Moines North averaging somewhere close to 2x more possessions per game (I know we went around on the per possession stats earlier, but I am too lazy to look up specifics).
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I remember this, after taking the possessions into consideration, Locure's assist & steal numbers were still quite a bit better. Of course, the assist to turnover ratio doesn't change. ;)
 
Just hope Fran gets at least one of Carton, Terry, Locure, or unknown and athletic point guard. I'm not confident of it though.
 
Fryowa said:
We can argue this till we're blue in the face.

I'll leave off with this...

No 170-ish basketball player who isn't a guard plays ball in the P-5. He's got 30 pounds to go to get to Marble (as you mentioned) or Uthoff, and that's just not going to happen in a year or even two. I get that you think I'm putting too much of an emphasis on weight, but size is something you can't substitute for. He's going to get pushed around and manhandled. It's physics. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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Brandon Ingram showed up to Duke weighing like 170 lb. Packed on another 20 and was the second overall pick
 
hawkewilly said:
Brandon Ingram showed up to Duke weighing like 170 lb. Packed on another 20 and was the second overall pick
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FWIW he said he was 165 at the beginning of last summer and 175 by the end of it. He's presently listed at 180. So that's already 15 pounds over what he started at last summer. He has a year of weights to go and the freshman 15. He could easily be 200-210 by the time he starts.
 
N8theGr8 said:
FWIW he said he was 165 at the beginning of last summer and 175 by the end of it. He's presently listed at 180. So that's already 15 pounds over what he started at last summer. He has a year of weights to go and the freshman 15. He could easily be 200-210 by the time he starts.
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This literally screams "redshirt". But the freshman fifteen is real. When you live in the dorms and someone else is doing the cooking for you and you are supplementing your diet with late night Paul Revere's Wedgies and College Street sidewalk vendors I know I went from 155-170 in a hurry.
 
Northside Hawk said:
This literally screams "redshirt". But the freshman fifteen is real. When you live in the dorms and someone else is doing the cooking for you and you are supplementing your diet with late night Paul Revere's Wedgies and College Street sidewalk vendors I know I went from 155-170 in a hurry.
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That’s almost extactly what happened with me! I went from 155-175. My lifting coach made me down a shake before and after every session. That plus those waffles and unlimited chocolate milk. Haha those were the days...
 
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