Oh Marino. You mean one of the best 5 QB's in the history of the NFL? By your dumb logic, Karl Malone sucks. John Stockton sucks. Steve Nash sucks. Reggie Miller sucked. I could go on and on. Measuring someone's skill and accomplishments by their rings is ridiculous. Had Elway retired before his skills deminished greatly he would have 0 rings, but all of the sudden now he's great because he gets 2 rings when he is at best an average QB? Dumb.
who is the most overrated star in the nba?
- Thread starter Foval21
- Start date
Oh Marino. You mean one of the best 5 QB's in the history of the NFL? By your dumb logic, Karl Malone sucks. John Stockton sucks. Steve Nash sucks. Reggie Miller sucked. I could go on and on. Measuring someone's skill and accomplishments by their rings is ridiculous. Had Elway retired before his skills deminished greatly he would have 0 rings, but all of the sudden now he's great because he gets 2 rings when he is at best an average QB? Dumb.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
Elway was an average QB?
When he won his rings? Yes. For the 10 plus years where he was the best QB in the world even though he didn't have a ring? no. That's my point. Had he retired in 96 with 0 rings instead of 98 with 2 he would have been a top 2-3 qb of all time.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
Gotcha, I misread your post. I thought you meant he is considered great because of the rings when he was just average
Rings are overrated in team sports but performances in big games when there is a body of work of not coming through means something
theboat
Well-Known Member
none of the above mentioned are considered the best and never will be. I don't think anyone argues that lebron is a great player, he is just not even in the discussion for GOAT. The same way that anyone that mentions Marino as the greatest QB would get laughed at. He is possibly the greatest passer ever, as lebron may be the greatest athlete, but they ain't close to the best.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
anyone got a derpy pony?
I think this shows the extent to which he's the most talented player ever. With that being said, maybe Wilt Chamberlain was more talented, but that was just a pure size thing in an old era.
No one, not even jordan, had what Lebron has. Now I'm not comparing these two in particular, because that's not an argument Lebron would win. I'm just saying that the only guy you can compare to Lebron (in terms of size, athleticism, strength, speed, versatility) is Magic Johnson. And Magic Johnson was not the athlete that Lebron is! Lebron= Magic on steroids
Lebron is the only guy in the history of the league that can handle the ball, create for himself and others, rebound with anyone, block shots, defend any position and lead the fast break. To say he's overrated is foolish.
Yes, he lacks the championships and he can't blame "everyone else" or "lack of supporting cast" anymore, because now it's on him. But we're talking about individual players not teams, and he's the best in the game. With that being said, it's possible to be the best in the game and also overrated, it's almost certain actually. With today's media, I think all of the stars are overrated. They are glamorized to a point of overrating. However, to say Lebron is overrated implies a Skip Bayless like demeaning of him as a player, which he doesn't deserve. He's the best player in basketball.
theboat
Well-Known Member
what did I say that you disagree with?
twinlaker
Well-Known Member
IMHO, the "talking heads" of sports talk radio and the columnists of "tabloid papers" created the unnecessary term of "the greatest to never ever win" whatever championship. If you don't believe that the likes of Karl Malone, Dan Marino, Carl Yaztresmki, Marcel Dionne, Eric Dickerson, Elgin Baylor and Ted Williams just to name a few, don't belong in the Pantheon of all time greats.. then you don't know squat.
Team sports require so much of your "team mates" in order for you to excell... the knock on these guys is so unjustified...
Team sports require so much of your "team mates" in order for you to excell... the knock on these guys is so unjustified...
tm3308
Well-Known Member
What did he say that was so wrong? LeBron is king of nothing right now. He's a great player, and possesses more talent than just about anyone in history. But he currently lacks the intangible aspect that leads to what history demands of someone nominated for GOAT: rings.
Lots of players, in all sports, are in a similar boat. Nobody will tell you Karl Malone sucks, or Dan Marino. But you don't find many people holding them up as the GOAT, either.
twinlaker
Well-Known Member
Not real history... this is a relatively new "idea". Made up by talk show hosts and sports columnists. To suggest otherwise is silly.... the great writers of the past never, ever suggested otherwise Tork. And someday you will too, and we can all say, we knew you when.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Not real history... this is a relatively new "idea". Made up by talk show hosts and sports columnists. To suggest otherwise is silly.... the great writers of the past never, ever suggested otherwise Tork. And someday you will too, and we can all say, we knew you when.
Well, "real" history generally doesn't give two ***** about sports. There are notable exceptions (Jackie Robinson, Ernie Davis, etc.), but for the most part sports are irrelevant. Sports history has demanded rings for a long time. You don't get regarded as the best ever without finishing better than second at least once.
twinlaker
Well-Known Member
No not a long time.. maybe in your life time..which God bless you, is not very long. But in my life time, the notion of you "ain't nothin' without a ring" is quite new.
Trent Dilfer will never be in the same conversation as Marino.. and I know that is only one example, but just saying... in a team sport, the fact that someone hasn't won a ring, does not or should not keep them out of the GOAT ranks.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it's newer than I give it credit for. But it's largely thanks to Jordan and the way he willed his team to victory when it really counted. That's what truly has him at the top, not the rings themselves. His ability to transcend seemingly everything in a team sport is what makes him so special, not just his immense talent. The guy dropped 38 in a pivotal Finals game with a triple-digit fever. LeBron hasn't shown anything on that level yet.
Since when did GOAT become a thing? For me, GOAT is and always will be the nickname somewhen gets when they f*** it up. The GOAT is the guy you blame: Chris Weber for traveling, the kicker for missing the kick, Buckner lets it go through his legs.
I remember watching a Summer Olympics Games, maybe 2000 or 20004. The USA had a favorite in the 100M dash named Maurice Green and he had a tattoo that read GOAT. He was asked about it on TV and he talked about how it meant Greatest Of All Time. That was the first time I had ever heard it used in this way and I'm not a huge fan.
If anything, I think using 'GOAT' as a moniker/description is a new thing, that should stop.
I remember watching a Summer Olympics Games, maybe 2000 or 20004. The USA had a favorite in the 100M dash named Maurice Green and he had a tattoo that read GOAT. He was asked about it on TV and he talked about how it meant Greatest Of All Time. That was the first time I had ever heard it used in this way and I'm not a huge fan.
If anything, I think using 'GOAT' as a moniker/description is a new thing, that should stop.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Greatest Of All Time. I think everybody here can recognize the difference, given the context.
Right...did you read what I wrote?
tm3308
Well-Known Member
It's largely an internet/text thing, no different than "IMO" or "KF". Outside of the example you posted, I'd never heard of it actually being used outside of this realm.
actually GOAT became used for a basketball player named earl manigault (sp?) he was a street ball legend that they called the goat because of his name and how good he was. in fact there are some big named players that believe he was the best ball player to never make the nba because of drugs. supposedly at 5'11 he played with weights on his ankles and still would dunk over everyone. and then would take them off and do even more.
