who is the most overrated star in the nba?

[HawkeyeMike23]

I get what you are saying, but whatever LeBron is doing at the end of the game isnt working. Whether it is shooting himself, dishing to teammates or shooting free throws, for the most part it doesnt end well for LeBron or his team. I can think of 2 instances where LeBron won the game for his team in the playoffs. The Eastern Conference Finals game against the Pistons where nobody could stop him and he scored like 23 straight points and the buzzer beater he hit in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2009 against the Magic.

Granted he and Pierce had a very good battle in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals back in 2008 but it was in a losing effort.

While it seems that LeBron often makes the right decision at the end of games in regards to dishing to teammates or shooting, he is going to take the rap for the result because of how big of a star he is...fair or not.

Really? Just two instances? How about yesterday? How about the entire Bulls series last year? Every playoff series the Cavs won?

Who had the more "clutch" performance this weekend, LeBron or Durant? Durant was great at the end of the game on Saturday but without Westbrook keeping the Thunder in the game in the second and third quarter, they lose that game by 10+. LeBron was great from start to finish on Sunday on both ends, he kept the Heat in the game while he waited for Wade to get going in a game on the road that they absolutely had to have. How is that not a clutch performance?

 

[bcl20]

Miami is Wade, Lebron and a bunch of poo right now. LeBron's game yesterday was absolutely clutch. Hell, he's been clutch all series.

LeBron has never had a good supporting cast his entire career aside from last year and, if Bosh comes back if they Pacers, this year, and even then, outside the Big 3, his supporting cast has been awful and the Cavs were making runs in the playoffs all the time.

Look at the Cavs team that he took to the finals (yeah, I know the East was down but still). They were terrible. That has to count for something as far as his legacy goes.

 

[DuffMan]

was magic scared when he fished to a wide open Scott at the end of games? was mj scared when he hit kerr?the idea that hes scared is for lazy people who don't think for themselevs. lebron is a complete basketball player, not just a scorer. he should be judged by his decision making at the end of games, not by whether or not he puts up a shot. only a fool would think drawing three defenders on penetration and kicking to a wide open teamate is "playing scared". forcing a bad shot in traffic is bad basketball, and perfectly exemplifies the selfish "me first" attitude so many people on here claim to hate about the NBA.

You would have a point if that is what he did. Half the time he is standing in the corner as the "decoy." You wantt o argue that he is a great player? Fine. He is definitely top 20. You want to pretend he is clutch? That is a joke. Until that changes he isn't even in the discussion for best ever. Jordan and Magic would pass if needed, but you would never see them standing in the corner damn near out of bounds with 10 seconds left.

neither magic nor mj played with a hof player who also operated best with the ball in their hands. it only makes sense that lebron would share some of the end game load with wade. I don't think u can recall him bring a deke with the cavs.

 

[jkriv]

Carrying a team does not make someone the best player. Allen Iverson did it and he isn't in the discussion for best either.

Until Lebron proves himself to be clutch and not scared in the last few minutes of important games, the criticism will rightfully continue. He very well could grow into the discussion, but not yet.

Criticism is fine... but no one should ever seriously belive an MVP of any sport to be overrated. Title or no title any MVP is not overrated.

 

[theboat]

neither magic nor mj played with a hof player who also operated best with the ball in their hands. it only makes sense that lebron would share some of the end game load with wade. I don't think u can recall him bring a deke with the cavs.

Wait, I thought the arguments were that Worthy and Pippen were so great and that is why those guys were great too.

I think you just proved my point though, since Lebron isn't the most clutch on his own team, it is silly to have the discussion for greatest of all time. He is possibly the best all around player of all-time, but to be the greatest ever you need a lot more than that.

 

[Section136]

Really? Just two instances? How about yesterday? How about the entire Bulls series last year? Every playoff series the Cavs won?

Who had the more "clutch" performance this weekend, LeBron or Durant? Durant was great at the end of the game on Saturday but without Westbrook keeping the Thunder in the game in the second and third quarter, they lose that game by 10+. LeBron was great from start to finish on Sunday on both ends, he kept the Heat in the game while he waited for Wade to get going in a game on the road that they absolutely had to have. How is that not a clutch performance?

I should have mentioned I didnt watch the game yesterday.

 

[theboat]

Criticism is fine... but no one should ever seriously belive an MVP of any sport to be overrated. Title or no title and MVP is not overrated.

I don't think Lebron is overrated as a basketball player by most people. I think only those that consider him one of if not the greatest ever are greatly overrating him though.

If you want to say he is top 5 today and possibly number one, then that is fine.

If you want to say he is top 5 all-time and possibly number one, that is just wrong.

 

[Section136]

Wait, I thought the arguments were that Worthy and Pippen were so great and that is why those guys were great too.

I think you just proved my point though, since Lebron isn't the most clutch on his own team, it is silly to have the discussion for greatest of all time. He is possibly the best all around player of all-time, but to be the greatest ever you need a lot more than that.

Worthy and Pippen didnt operate best with the ball in their hands, Wade does. That is what Duff was saying.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Wait, I thought the arguments were that Worthy and Pippen were so great and that is why those guys were great too.

I think you just proved my point though, since Lebron isn't the most clutch on his own team, it is silly to have the discussion for greatest of all time. He is possibly the best all around player of all-time, but to be the greatest ever you need a lot more than that.

Way to keep up with the media narritive. Please list all of Wade's great clutch performances, especially those in the four years preceding LeBron's arrival?

 

[theboat]

Way to keep up with the media narritive. Please list all of Wade's great clutch performances, especially those in the four years preceding LeBron's arrival?

media narrative? Duff was the one saying that it was OK to share the end of the game load with DWade, not the media.

If someone is sharing the load, that probably means they are even or not as good, don't you think? Or is Spoelstra in on the media narrative too and just trying to hold Lebron down?

 

[jkriv]

I don't think Lebron is overrated as a basketball player by most people. I think only those that consider him one of if not the greatest ever are greatly overrating him though.

If you want to say he is top 5 today and possibly number one, then that is fine.

If you want to say he is top 5 all-time and possibly number one, that is just wrong.

I think we are on the same page. Is he overrated? No.

Is he top 5 of all time? Not yet.

My gut tells me he will be in 5 years though.

 

[theboat]

Worthy and Pippen didnt operate best with the ball in their hands, Wade does. That is what Duff was saying.

I know exactly what Duff is saying. He is saying that DWade is just as capable at the end of the game. So either DWade is also one of the best ever, or Lebron isn't. Which is it?

 

[theboat]

I think we are on the same page. Is he overrated? No.

Is he top 5 of all time? Not yet.

My gut tells me he will be in 5 years though.

Probably.

 

[DuffMan]

Worthy and Pippen didnt operate best with the ball in their hands, Wade does. That is what Duff was saying.

I know exactly what Duff is saying. He is saying that DWade is just as capable at the end of the game. So either DWade is also one of the best ever, or Lebron isn't. Which is it?

yes, dwade is just as capable a scorer in late game situations but..

1) that doesn't make lebron any less clutch and...

2) scoring is only one aspect of the game. Lebrons much more capable of getting that big defensive stop (guarding any position on the floor), tough rebound, blocked shot, steal, etc.

 

[theboat]

yes, dwade is just as capable a scorer in late game situations but..

1) that doesn't make lebron any less clutch and...

2) scoring is only one aspect of the game. Lebrons much more capable of getting that big defensive stop (guarding any position on the floor), tough rebound, blocked shot, steal, etc.

Yes, he is. But that is what will always keep him out of the discussion for best ever. It's the law.

 

[DuffMan]

yes, dwade is just as capable a scorer in late game situations but..1) that doesn't make lebron any less clutch and...2) scoring is only one aspect of the game. Lebrons much more capable of getting that big defensive stop (guarding any position on the floor), tough rebound, blocked shot, steal, etc.

Yes, he is. But that is what will always keep him out of the discussion for best ever. It's the law.

so you are admitting your position is untenable?

btw the best player in the NBA right now at getting and making a shot down one in end game situations is melo, should we talk about him being the greatest ever?

 

[Travisam]

Yes, he is. But that is what will always keep him out of the discussion for best ever. It's the law.

Amongst ignorant people yes. I seem to recall a guy named Scotty Pippen who may have seen MJ play a few times. I think he made a comment about Bron maybe being the best ever....until he got absolutely thrashed in the media.

Lebron is a better all around player than Jordan. Jordan was a better scorer. Jordan was a better closer. Bron is more versatile, better defender due to his ability to guard anyone on the floor(Ask D Rose and his 6.3% when Bron guarded him last year in playoffs), better rebounder, better passer.

I'm not sure how this is even debatable honestly.

 

[theboat]

so you are admitting your position is untenable?

btw the best player in the NBA right now at getting and making a shot down one in end game situations is melo, should we talk about him being the greatest ever?

No, we shouldn't. Clutch isn't the decider, it is the icing on the cake. And until Lebron is the go to guy on his own team, I will never consider him in the same area code as Jordan.

 

[theboat]

better defender due to his ability to guard anyone on the floor(Ask D Rose and his 6.3% when Bron guarded him last year in playoffs), better rebounder, better passer.

I'm not sure how this is even debatable honestly.

Travis, I like you, but that is just dumb. Jordan was the best on the ball defender ever. If you want to argue that Lebron is bigger then fine, but better ain't even close.

You not only think Lebron is the best ever, you think it is beyond debate?

 

[Travisam]

Travis, I like you, but that is just dumb.

You not only think Lebron is the best ever, you think it is beyond debate?

I said he's a better all around player. The things I stated i don't think are debatable. Better defender, rebounder, passer. Worse scorer, finisher. What in there do you think is up for debate?