When did you turn Anti-Ferentz

[SamsonHawk515]

I felt the same regarding the ohio state game, Iowa gets a shot to beat OSU once every ten years and to tuck tail and play for OT was sickening. That's why I can't. stomach Ferentz much anymore. In sports its about going for broke no matter the results moral victories are meaningless.

 

[lightning1]

I'm not anti-Ferentz. I'm pro-Iowa! The fans show up and support the team, year in and year out. The University supports the program with new facilities all the way around. The University of Iowa and it's fans deserve better than what Kirk Ferentz is providing.
End of story.

 

[lightning1]

Taking the big knee, in the shoe, in 09. Gutless football and we see it over and over again.

That will be the thing I remember about Kirk Ferentz. 40 years from now I will remember that gutless call. That's coaching scared, IMO and there's no place for it in College Football.

 

[lightning1]

You obviously aren't as informed as you want everyone to think. That workout had been done EVERY YEAR at U of I. NO previous incidents. How was it "mishandled"? And how would you get all "geek" by giving some supporting facts?

Nobody likes negative publicity. But if the Rhabdo incident had happened at Alabama, it would have been just another part of Nick Saban's "drive" that leads to his "greatness". At O$U? Urban would trot out Gene Smith to roll on some Youngstown-area mobster for trying to taint the program. U$C or Texas? It would have been the unseasonably warm weather.

Face it, the "media" tried to jump on KF and the program. Jim Poggi's father came out and publicly shut their traps for them. End of story.

No, that workout has NOT been done every year at Iowa. Kirk Ferentz came out and said it was done twice prior to the incident. I don't remember the years he said they did it but he said that Brian was on the roster during one of those prior occasions. I know things happen during workouts and anyone that thinks the coaches did that to the players on purpose, is misguided. If they even thought it was possible, they wouldn't have done it. I don't think an honest person could say otherwise.
My personal problem with the workout is that after the first 50 squats (maybe less) it does more damage than it does good, to the muscle groups. I believe that workout was supposed to "see who really wants to be here" and it backfired on KF.

 

[SamsonHawk515]

Yep, in 09 at the shoe the fear of losing was greater then taking the chance and winning. I wonder if he regrets that call, prolly not still coaches the same way. Why did we punt on 4th and 18 this week, just throw it up u never know what might happen instead we punt the ball and game away.

 

[MeatMan]

You obviously aren't as informed as you want everyone to think. That workout had been done EVERY YEAR at U of I. NO previous incidents. How was it "mishandled"? And how would you get all "geek" by giving some supporting facts?

Nobody likes negative publicity. But if the Rhabdo incident had happened at Alabama, it would have been just another part of Nick Saban's "drive" that leads to his "greatness". At O$U? Urban would trot out Gene Smith to roll on some Youngstown-area mobster for trying to taint the program. U$C or Texas? It would have been the unseasonably warm weather.

Face it, the "media" tried to jump on KF and the program. Jim Poggi's father came out and publicly shut their traps for them. End of story.

serious? apparently you are the one who doesn't understand. do something besides reading Hawkeye message boards. you might learn something.

 

[mrolympia]

I'd say the whole "city boyz inc." thing got the ball rolling, playing guys who should never have seen the field (schnoor over young and sims, Grigsby over anybody) but 2010 with the team he had back should have been a rose bowl/bcs bowl shoe in and maybe a NC contender, not a 5 loss team with one of those losses being the goophers. That was pretty much it for me. Boring offense, not playing the best players, beyond idiotic special teams, taking knees at halftime and at the end of the game when you have a chance to win (2009 OSU). I'll give you that he does develop non skill players but if you have so many of these NFL guys on your team should you not win more games than he has?

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I'm not and likely never will be. Definitely has shiwn faults in clock managemnt, possibly over conservative at times(although that same conservatisism allow us to upset some better teams it also allow worse teams to beat us). Barring '12 and possibly '10 I still believe the pros out way the cons...overall. that said, win less than 6 this year and less than 7 next(or lose to far inferior teams)...I believe a change will need to be made or at least put into motion.

My expectations are well noted throughout the board.

 

[bud2380]

The smoke n mirrors 2009 campaign on the heels of 2006-2008

That Orange Bowl season was great..... but getting pushed by Ark State, surviving against UNI, a miracle comeback against Ind etc. Left me with the gut feeling coach is an underachiever

What about when we dominated 4th ranked penn st in happy valley on national tv? Or when we dominated a ranked Wisconsin team on the road? How about the orange bowl where Georgia tech punted more in that game than they had in the previous 5 games combined? All flukes? Underachieving? all smoke and mirrors? please.

 

[MeatMan]

Here are some articles to read on the rhabdo situation. I specifically found non-technical articles, but ones with quotes from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Iowa still learning from rhabdo incident that hospitalized 13 players

Iowa staff misused exercise that led to rhabdo, experts say | Hawk Central

College - Overly Aggressive Workouts Put Athletes at Risk of Rhabdomyolysis

Here are a few things that show just how preventable this event was.

1) It was coming off a down period, where kids hadn't been lifting.
2) It was a type of workout that they had done before, but certainly not every year, and never at the start of a training period.
3) It is questionable, though not provable, that some of the kids may have been on supplements during the down period. And while that doesn't mean they were doing anything shady, it does mean that they could have been much more susceptible, or been taking supplements that were of low quality.
4) The workout itself was widely condemned by the Strength Coaches associations, with some qualified individuals equating it with ignorance of the science or negligence.

Here are some of my thoughts. 100 reps at high weight isn't going to show you who's "man enough" or "separate the men from the boys" any better than a cardio workout would. What it does do is create an environment where injury and overuse is very likely. High rep, high intensity workouts coming off a down period is simply idiotic. I see tons of athletes who do this type of crap when they start P90X and all that stuff. They come in with serious muscle strains, tendinitis/tendinopathy, and rotator cuff tears. If you want to send a message, use cardio, don't do a bazillion of the same exercise. That's really, really dumb from a strength training standpoint. Really dumb. If you are going to do a very intense program like this, you work up to it.

Rhabdomyolysis: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatments

Approximately 1 in 4 who suffer from rhabdo will develop long term liver damage. Even to the extent of compartment syndrome, which can lead to permanent nerve damage or even amputation.

CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret | Eric Robertson

This guy is going after CrossFit, but it holds true for over-the-top exercise programs like what happened at Iowa. I actually know this guy, and he's a smart dude.

I'm going to stop there, cause that's one super long post. I hope you get the drift.

 

[hawkfan340]

You DO realize, 13 players could have gotten food poisoning, or a flu outbreak hits the team, etc. "Gross" mishandling? It had NEVER happened before in ALL the other years of doing that workout. The fact it happened all of a sudden points to other factors, possibly.

What would YOUR PR "handling" looked like? Just curious.

13 players didn't get food poisoning or the flu. They got rhabdomyolysis. I don't care if the workout had been done before with no known consequences. It directly led to 13 students being hospitalized this time.

That's like saying you've driven drunk many times without killing anyone, so this accident couldn't have been because of the alcohol. The rain must have been a factor too.

 

[PCHawk]

I'm just gunna say that finishing 8th in '03 was not a great coaching job by Kirk. We finished 5-3 in our conference. The only reason we finished 8th is because it was a jacked up year.

Also it took a fluke play after a terrible coaching job in the cap 1 bowl to finish 8th the following year. If that play doesn't happen we are probably more like 15th at the end of the year.

Those were both good years, especially '04, but us finishing in the top 10 those years were flukes.

 

[lightning1]

Here are some articles to read on the rhabdo situation. I specifically found non-technical articles, but ones with quotes from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Iowa still learning from rhabdo incident that hospitalized 13 players

Iowa staff misused exercise that led to rhabdo, experts say | Hawk Central

College - Overly Aggressive Workouts Put Athletes at Risk of Rhabdomyolysis

Here are a few things that show just how preventable this event was.

1) It was coming off a down period, where kids hadn't been lifting.
2) It was a type of workout that they had done before, but certainly not every year, and never at the start of a training period.
3) It is questionable, though not provable, that some of the kids may have been on supplements during the down period. And while that doesn't mean they were doing anything shady, it does mean that they could have been much more susceptible, or been taking supplements that were of low quality.
4) The workout itself was widely condemned by the Strength Coaches associations, with some qualified individuals equating it with ignorance of the science or negligence.

Here are some of my thoughts. 100 reps at high weight isn't going to show you who's "man enough" or "separate the men from the boys" any better than a cardio workout would. What it does do is create an environment where injury and overuse is very likely. High rep, high intensity workouts coming off a down period is simply idiotic. I see tons of athletes who do this type of crap when they start P90X and all that stuff. They come in with serious muscle strains, tendinitis/tendinopathy, and rotator cuff tears. If you want to send a message, use cardio, don't do a bazillion of the same exercise. That's really, really dumb from a strength training standpoint. Really dumb. If you are going to do a very intense program like this, you work up to it.

Rhabdomyolysis: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatments

Approximately 1 in 4 who suffer from rhabdo will develop long term liver damage. Even to the extent of compartment syndrome, which can lead to permanent nerve damage or even amputation.

CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret | Eric Robertson

This guy is going after CrossFit, but it holds true for over-the-top exercise programs like what happened at Iowa. I actually know this guy, and he's a smart dude.

I'm going to stop there, cause that's one super long post. I hope you get the drift.

I often stop short of calling it an idiotic workout because Coach Doyle gets paid to do what he does and I don't train people for a living. That having been said, I thought it was an idiotic workout too. I have trained in multiple sports and weight trained for health reasons. I have never seen anyone attempt something like that. Nor would I attempt a high rep, high weight exorcise. It only tears up your muscles and hinders muscle recovery. Add to that it was at the beginning of a training period. That would likely set guys back several days in training just to recover from the first workout. It didn't make any sense then and it still doesn't make any sense today.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I often stop short of calling it an idiotic workout because Coach Doyle gets paid to do what he does and I don't train people for a living. That having been said, I thought it was an idiotic workout too. I have trained in multiple sports and weight trained for health reasons. I have never seen anyone attempt something like that. Nor would I attempt a high rep, high weight exorcise. It only tears up your muscles and hinders muscle recovery. Add to that it was at the beginning of a training period. That would likely set guys back several days in training just to recover from the first workout. It didn't make any sense then and it still doesn't make any sense today.

Doyle is considered one of the best in the business...by many if not most. Not my opinion...literally fact. He has national awards and recognitions to prove it. Not saying...just saying.

 

[MeatMan]

I often stop short of calling it an idiotic workout because Coach Doyle gets paid to do what he does and I don't train people for a living. That having been said, I thought it was an idiotic workout too. I have trained in multiple sports and weight trained for health reasons. I have never seen anyone attempt something like that. Nor would I attempt a high rep, high weight exorcise. It only tears up your muscles and hinders muscle recovery. Add to that it was at the beginning of a training period. That would likely set guys back several days in training just to recover from the first workout. It didn't make any sense then and it still doesn't make any sense today.

I have two good friends who are college strength coaches, and they said you would be surprised how many high level strength coaches have little to no training and knowledge about the actual science. Kind of a good old boys networknat some places. Not gonna say Doyle doesn't know what he's doing, but he majorly f'ed up there. Gotta know better than that.

 

[MeatMan]

Doyle is considered one of the best in the business...by many if not most. Not my opinion...literally fact. He has national awards and recognitions to prove it. Not saying...just saying.

And he was roundly and very loudly criticized by the leading members of his profession for it. Just saying....literally fact.

 

[DDStretch]

My theory is Brian is the one who pushed for the 3 tight end sets. Especially because he coached the Patriot tight ends with great success. I think our offensive problem is Greg Davis play calling and offensive game plans. The defense has looked solid this year. The offense looks lost except for the OSU game.

Tend to agree. I believe that if Kirk Ferentz would have just done what Iowa fans DIDN'T want him to do and hired Brian Ferentz as the offensive coordinator, this offense would be much more effective, potentially dynamic down the road.

 

[Sparky]

Anyone in their right mind should know that doing 100 back squats at 50 percent of their one rep max after not doing anything for 3 weeks is a really REALLY bad idea. Doyle should have been fired, I don't care how good he has done at his job in the past.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I have two good friends who are college strength coaches, and they said you would be surprised how many high level strength coaches have little to no training and knowledge about the actual science. Kind of a good old boys networknat some places. Not gonna say Doyle doesn't know what he's doing, but he majorly f'ed up there. Gotta know better than that.

Meat man, I always respect and usually agree with ya posts, and while I agree there obviously a mistake somewhere, by someone....i gotta disagree on this...this was a workout done for many mamy years without incidence. That, combined with the massive respect by his peers along with the many awards for his work, tells me Doyle more than knows what he's doing and something else was a factor. While a bad situation, Doyle deserves the benefit of the doubt, my opinion....which is worth....we'll...as little as everyone's else's here.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Anyone in their right mind should know that doing 100 back squats at 50 percent of their one rep max after not doing anything for 3 weeks is a really REALLY bad idea. Doyle should have been fired, I don't care how good he has done at his job in the past.

Disagree, but its an opinion board.