When did you turn Anti-Ferentz

[hawkeyebob62]

i do. as a healthcare provider, especially as one who works with sports medicine, this particular incident has been discussed in many conferences i've been at as an example of negligence on the part of the strength staff. if you want, i can get into particulars, but didn't want to get all geek in here.

from a PR standpoint, they also messed up horribly. Barta and KF. and then the gall to give Doyle the nod for assistant of the year just shows how out of it that KF is. sure, he didn't want to throw his friend (and a great CSCS) under the bus. but he didn't have to do that, and it reeked of arrogance and ignorance.

You obviously aren't as informed as you want everyone to think. That workout had been done EVERY YEAR at U of I. NO previous incidents. How was it "mishandled"? And how would you get all "geek" by giving some supporting facts?

Nobody likes negative publicity. But if the Rhabdo incident had happened at Alabama, it would have been just another part of Nick Saban's "drive" that leads to his "greatness". At O$U? Urban would trot out Gene Smith to roll on some Youngstown-area mobster for trying to taint the program. U$C or Texas? It would have been the unseasonably warm weather.

Face it, the "media" tried to jump on KF and the program. Jim Poggi's father came out and publicly shut their traps for them. End of story.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

The smoke n mirrors 2009 campaign on the heels of 2006-2008

That Orange Bowl season was great..... but getting pushed by Ark State, surviving against UNI, a miracle comeback against Ind etc. Left me with the gut feeling coach is an underachiever

So how did you feel in 2002-2003-2004? In your "gut", I mean.

 

[hawkfan340]

You obviously aren't as informed as you want everyone to think. That workout had been done EVERY YEAR at U of I. NO previous incidents. How was it "mishandled"? And how would you get all "geek" by giving some supporting facts?

Nobody likes negative publicity. But if the Rhabdo incident had happened at Alabama, it would have been just another part of Nick Saban's "drive" that leads to his "greatness". At O$U? Urban would trot out Gene Smith to roll on some Youngstown-area mobster for trying to taint the program. U$C or Texas? It would have been the unseasonably warm weather.

Face it, the "media" tried to jump on KF and the program. Jim Poggi's father came out and publicly shut their traps for them. End of story.

13 players ended up in the hospital due to the workout. This is indisputable and that is gross mishandling of the players health and well-being. No need to get geeky at all. The following PR handling of the issue and awarding Doyle assistant of the year were also an embarrassment. We fans have moved on because there is nothing that can be done now, but there's no way I'm going to dismiss what happened. That was a terrible job done under KF/Barta's watch.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Go look at the past ten years and tell me how many teams Iowa is better than over that span. Last year was bad but they were still top 25 in the country in wins the last ten years with a 4 win season. That's pretty remarkable. He is right there with Michigan and Nebraska.
It's not that easy to find another coach that can do that.

Since 2001 Iowa leads the Big Ten in Bowl wins an winning percentage.
4th in big ten wins the past ten years
4th in big ten wins the last 5 years

3 time Big Ten coach of the year
National Coach of the year
Ranked in top Ten in final poll 4 times
Two conference championships

We aren't talking about Lickliter here guys.

That all looks great on the surface, but the problem is that most of this was done roughly a decade ago, or more. National coach of the year, 11 years ago. The last conference championship, 9 years ago. 3 of the 4 Top 10 finishes, 9+ years ago.

Out of 14 years (this year is the 15th), Iowa has 4 Top Ten finishes. Great! But the other 10 years, just ONE appearance in the final Top 25 poll, and it looks like it will most likely be 1 out of 11 once this year is done. I don't give a rip about pre-season rankings.. It's where you finish that counts.

Kirk has done a nice job at Iowa, I'll agree, and his overall body of work looks strong once you average it all out, but this isn't the same program that it was a decade ago. And frankly, I am sick of living in the past and talking about 2002-04. It has little relevance in 2013. What are we going to do moving forward?

Don't get me wrong, those Top 10 seasons were great. But I would almost rather be more consistently a Top 25 program than have a few big years and then do squat for a decade.

 

[JHHawk]

I did not like him back in the 80's as an assistant.....too good looking, and my wife had a crush on him.

 

[brhawks18]

This shows just how stupid you really are...More teams playing up tempo?! This is a serious question, have you seriously not watched any Iowa football this year?!?!?!

Of course I have. The most boring offense to watch in college football. About the only change I've seen is no huddle. Instead they go to the line of scrimmage where there are still several plays per game that the play clock almost runs out. By up tempo I am talking about not giving the opposing teams defense time to get set up. Iowa ran 66 plays per game last year and 72 this year. Not a big difference.

Standing at the line of scrimmage and looking over to the sidelines for 15 to 20 seconds waiting for a play to be called is not much different then huddling up. As a matter of fact, with the inept offensive philosophy of this staff, going back to huddle up and letting the play clock run down may give the defense a little more time to get rested up.

The offensive philosophy of KF has been stuck in the 80's for his entire tenure. It gets worse every year as other programs evolve with the times. Look at the offensive stats year over year is all you need to do.

 

[BLKNGOLD48]

That all looks great on the surface, but the problem is that most of this was done roughly a decade ago, or more. National coach of the year, 11 years ago. The last conference championship, 9 years ago. 3 of the 4 Top 10 finishes, 9+ years ago.

Out of 14 years (this year is the 15th), Iowa has 4 Top Ten finishes. Great! But the other 10 years, just ONE appearance in the final Top 25 poll, and it looks like it will most likely be 1 out of 11 once this year is done. I don't give a rip about pre-season rankings.. It's where you finish that counts.

Kirk has done a nice job at Iowa, I'll agree, and his overall body of work looks strong once you average it all out, but this isn't the same program that it was a decade ago. And frankly, I am sick of living in the past and talking about 2002-04. It has little relevance in 2013. What are we going to do moving forward?

Don't get me wrong, those Top 10 seasons were great. But I would almost rather be more consistently a Top 25 program than have a few big years and then do squat for a decade.

100% agree. Good post.

 

[HomerChampless]

Started being anti-Iowa-defense (mainly 'cause, early on, I realized Iowa couldn't defend the pass, realizing it maybe as early as 2003 against Purdue?). I wasn't anti-KF at that time, but I wondered how KF thought he could win games with a strong D and a game manager's offense when Iowa's pass D couldn't defend. He's sacrificed talent, for example, Greg Garmon, Brandon Wegher, C.J. Beathard, and possibly other recruits on offense, like Melvin Gordon III, so he could run his game manager's offense. KF sacrificed defensive talent, for example, Cedric Everson, any of the Hawk corner backs that were turned into safeties in the NFL 'cause they weren't taught how to press cover at Iowa, because KF wanted to run his soft 2 deep pass zone, the bend and break pass defense Iowa is known for. KF will never take a gamble - even if the game condition may dictate it or the odds are 50-50. Ferentz is a couch stuck in the mid-1990s. This might not be so bad, but Iowa's pass defense is suspect, and can't be counted on - and Ferentz counts on defense to win games. The college football world has passed him by.

 

[SamsonHawk515]

Basically, IMO, Kirk and the staff blew Shonn Greene's Junior year losing the 4 games by a combined 12 points. (2008)

Key moments include JC starting to begin the year, if I remember correct Ricky "Two Glove" Stanzi was benched at the end of the 1st half vs Pitt for irking KOK and company. Loss number one 20-21

The following week Northwestern rolled into town and Jewell Hampton had witnessed little playing time at this point in the year, Greene gets nicked up during this game and KF of little freshman faith has no one to back up Greene. What ensues is Northwestern taking the lead and Iowa still having an opportunity to win the game. First and goal at the northwestern 8 yard line with plenty of time to run or throw and the game on the line. KOK decideds to throw 4 straight passes and we fail to score. Why didnt we run, likely because Kfed and company were so nervous to hand the ball to a freshman in a crucial situation Iowa goes down to the cats 17-22

The next loss was absurd as Iowa is down 16-13 at East Lansing, the Hawks have 4th and 2 inches to go for the first down. Instead of a QB sneak we run a stupid misdirection play with Greene and the Fullback goes the wrong way Hawks stuffed game over. Some may say well it was the Fullback's fault for missing the block, no it was the coaches fault for not running a QB sneak and allowing MSU to apply pressure to the back field.

Last loss of the season was at Illinios Iowa makes a nice comeback to tie the game, but what ensued was actually on Norm and Kfed for a change rather than KOK and Kfed. Instead of applying a four man rush Iowa drops 8 for the majority of Illinios' game winning drive. Just sickening to watch the Illini march down the field and set up for the game winning FG. I understand the logic of this type of D when a TD is needed, but a FG requires a different set of D IMO.

This is were my angst towards Kirk grew, dont get me wrong the next season was a blast, but I still feel coaching decisions cost that team from doing something even more special.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Basically, IMO, Kirk and the staff blew Shonn Greene's Junior year losing the 4 games by a combined 12 points. (2008)

Key moments include JC starting to begin the year, if I remember correct Ricky "Two Glove" Stanzi was benched at the end of the 1st half vs Pitt for irking KOK and company. Loss number one 20-21

The following week Northwestern rolled into town and Jewell Hampton had witnessed little playing time at this point in the year, Greene gets nicked up during this game and KF of little freshman faith has no one to back up Greene. What ensues is Northwestern taking the lead and Iowa still having an opportunity to win the game. First and goal at the northwestern 8 yard line with plenty of time to run or throw and the game on the line. What ensue KOK decideds to throw 4 straight passes and we fail to score. Why didnt we run, likely because Kfed and company were so nervous to hand the ball to a freshman in a crucial situation Iowa goes down to the cats 17-22

The next loss was absurd as Iowa is down 16-13 at East Lansing, the Hawks have 4th and 2 inches to go for the first down. Instead of a QB sneak we run a stupid misdirection play with Greene and the Fullback goes the wrong way Hawks stuffed game over. Some may say well it was the Fullback's fault for missing the block, no it was the coaching fault for not running a QB sneak and allowing MSU to apply pressure to the back field.

Last lose of the season was at Illinios Iowa makes a nice comeback to tie the game, but what ensued was actually on Norm and Kfed for a change rather than KOK and Kfed. Instead of applying a four man rush Iowa drops 8 for the majority of Illinios game winning drive. Just sickening to watch the Illini march down the field and set up for the game winning FG. I understand the logic of this type of D when a TD is needed, but a FG requires a different set of D IMO.

This is were my angst towards Kirk grew, dont get me wrong the next season was a blast, but I still feel coaching decisions cost that team from doing something even more special.

Agreed on 2009. Still a great season, but the first thing about that year is that when Stanzi went down against NW, it was painfully obvious that JVB was brutally unprepared to step in and be even a serviceable backup. The way JVB handled himself at times @OSU the very next game, would he have been better against NW if he had seen more snaps earlier in the season in mop up duty?

I'm not sure I will ever forgive KF for sitting on the ball with nearly a minute, 2 timeouts, 100% of the momentum, only needing a FG to win at OSU in regulation, but he elected to play it safe. OT was a disaster. I know some will disagree with me on this (and I don't really want to get into it) but I was ticked off about that decision as it was happening, BEFORE the OT was played, so it's not a case of hindsight. We'll never know if Iowa would have won the game if it had gone for it in regulation, but Iowa didn't go for the kill when the game was right there on a silver platter, waiting to be claimed. It was just a spineless decision to play for overtime IMO.

These two things could very well have cost Iowa a perfect regular season. It still may have been Alabama vs. Texas in the title game anyway, but I would have liked to have seen our Hawks right there, embroiled in another BCS controversy. We would have been relevant, if only for that one season.

 

[pmchawk]

Next year if we have a bad year. I think the reason Kirk was given the rediculous contract he has so he had time to make changes. No way he was going to be bought out before next year. When his contract is through 2020. 8-4 should be the floor for next year. Anything less Barta should be let go so a different AD can make the hire if Kirk doesn't hit 10 wins the following year.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Next year if we have a bad year. I think the reason Kirk was given the rediculous contract he has so he had time to make changes. No way he was going to be bought out before next year. When his contract is through 2020. 8-4 should be the floor for next year. Anything less Barta should be let go so a different AD can make the hire if Kirk doesn't hit 10 wins the following year.

I agree on this point, particularly with how easy the schedule is. A very good team would win 10+.

 

[pmchawk]

These two things could very well have cost Iowa a perfect regular season. It still may have been Alabama vs. Texas in the title game anyway, but I would have liked to have seen our Hawks right there, embroiled in another BCS controversy. We would have been relevant, if only for that one season.

Computers loved iowa in 09. Only way they don't jump Texas was if they were ranked 5th by human polls. iirc computers liked Iowa more then Bama before the injury.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Computers loved iowa in 09. Only way they don't jump Texas was if they were ranked 5th by human polls. iirc computers liked Iowa more then Bama before the injury.

Now that you mention it, I think you are right. I'm not sure how things would have shaken out, but maybe Iowa had a good chance after all. I'm pretty sure that Iowa was ranked 4th in the AP and/or ESPN polls when it lost to NW, so assuming a win there, and a win @OSU, it seems safe to assume it would have at least held its position in the polls.

 

[pmchawk]

Now that you mention it, I think you are right. I'm not sure how things would have shaken out, but maybe Iowa had a good chance after all. I'm pretty sure that Iowa was ranked 4th in the AP and/or ESPN polls when it lost to NW, so assuming a win there, and a win @OSU, it seems safe to assume it would have at least held its position in the polls.

We had a great chance and that is why so much hate was thrown our way.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

13 players ended up in the hospital due to the workout. This is indisputable and that is gross mishandling of the players health and well-being. No need to get geeky at all. The following PR handling of the issue and awarding Doyle assistant of the year were also an embarrassment. We fans have moved on because there is nothing that can be done now, but there's no way I'm going to dismiss what happened. That was a terrible job done under KF/Barta's watch.

You DO realize, 13 players could have gotten food poisoning, or a flu outbreak hits the team, etc. "Gross" mishandling? It had NEVER happened before in ALL the other years of doing that workout. The fact it happened all of a sudden points to other factors, possibly.

What would YOUR PR "handling" looked like? Just curious.

 

[Makavelihawk]

You DO realize, 13 players could have gotten food poisoning, or a flu outbreak hits the team, etc. "Gross" mishandling? It had NEVER happened before in ALL the other years of doing that workout. The fact it happened all of a sudden points to other factors, possibly.

What would YOUR PR "handling" looked like? Just curious.

Kirk coming off the road of a recruiting trip immediately would have been a good move.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Kirk coming off the road of a recruiting trip immediately would have been a good move.

Why? To my knowledge, NONE of the players were on their death bed. He still has a job to do. He did HIS job, and he let the medical staff/personnel do THEIR job.

And why, oh, why is nobody ever talking about Rhabdo after a win? And if it was so bad, why wasn't their a huge push to fire him then?

 

[Jjgoiowa11]

You DO realize, 13 players could have gotten food poisoning, or a flu outbreak hits the team, etc. "Gross" mishandling? It had NEVER happened before in ALL the other years of doing that workout. The fact it happened all of a sudden points to other factors, possibly.

What would YOUR PR "handling" looked like? Just curious.

Yes, 13 players getting sick is super and reflects well on our program.

Just curious how you know it was the exact same workout for 15 years? And i agree with you, that other 'factors' played a role..

 

[528646]

Started being anti-Iowa-defense (mainly 'cause, early on, I realized Iowa couldn't defend the pass, realizing it maybe as early as 2003 against Purdue?). I wasn't anti-KF at that time, but I wondered how KF thought he could win games with a strong D and a game manager's offense when Iowa's pass D couldn't defend. He's sacrificed talent, for example, Greg Garmon, Brandon Wegher, C.J. Beathard, and possibly other recruits on offense, like Melvin Gordon III, so he could run his game manager's offense. KF sacrificed defensive talent, for example, Cedric Everson, any of the Hawk corner backs that were turned into safeties in the NFL 'cause they weren't taught how to press cover at Iowa, because KF wanted to run his soft 2 deep pass zone, the bend and break pass defense Iowa is known for. KF will never take a gamble - even if the game condition may dictate it or the odds are 50-50. Ferentz is a couch stuck in the mid-1990s. This might not be so bad, but Iowa's pass defense is suspect, and can't be counted on - and Ferentz counts on defense to win games. The college football world has passed him by.

^ LOL, sorry, but anyone claiming Iowa's D has had much of anything to do with our struggles is LOL-worthy.

Look at our scoring defense ranking over the Ferentz years and then let me know if you still think the defense is the problem (in fact, I think the problem is Iowa has gone about things with the philosophy to try to score just 1 more point than your opponent, rather than getting aggressive and trying to score loads of points like everyone else seems to do!)