Here's a theory. He knows what it's like to be a big fish in a small pond from his high school days before Oak Hill. He knows what it's like to be a small fish in a big pond from his time at Oak Hill and at Iowa. Maybe he would rather be the big fish in a small pond. Especially where he knows the coach at that small pond.
Watching the PTL games
- Thread starter lightning1
- Start date
I didn't watch him play in the PTL so that is not what I'm doing.
Well I don't think he looked good when he played here and he didn't put up great numbers at Oak Hill because he had a ball hog on his team so I'm not sure where you got him pegged as such a talented player. You say Hutton sucked but he could defend and was athletic and still put up 18 ppg in the PTL
I thought he looked talented with bad results mostly due to bad decision making. Example. A guy who does a really quick move to get open than elavates high for a jumper that goes in and out looks more talented than the guy who hits a wide open jumper. I saw some really good things from Fleming that I never saw from a lot of other kids that are maybe just as good at basketball but not as talented. His individual moves looked pretty good but his results were not good. That makes me think he was a talented player who still had 3 years to improve the results. Does that make sense?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Tons of examples of small school kids transferring to P6 teams. Kids with P6 talent on P6 schools that transfer also have lots of landing spot options. Take for instance the 2 kids on ISU roster now. Nick Babb barely played at Arkansas his Fr. year and avg. .7 PPG, he landed at ISU. Kasongo averaged 1.4 PPG at Tennessee and is now at ISU.
Who knows, maybe you are right PC and he just needed more of an opportunity. I don't think the evidence points to that at all (Couldn't beat out Ellingson, and didn't get a sniff from another P6 teams when he transferred). Either way good luck to Fleming, by all accounts he was a good teammate.
Who knows, maybe you are right PC and he just needed more of an opportunity. I don't think the evidence points to that at all (Couldn't beat out Ellingson, and didn't get a sniff from another P6 teams when he transferred). Either way good luck to Fleming, by all accounts he was a good teammate.
Agree to disagree on this one I guess. I think Hutton was the better of the two that transferred out
Look at Marble as a freshman. Man he looked bad at times. He was so mentally out of games that he once shot a free throw with his foot over the line. Fleming would have played a lot on the team 4 years ago and Marble would have hardly seen the court as a freshman on last year's team. Marble turned into a 1st team all conference player. All Fleming would have had to do to prove me right is turn into a decent player.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Hard to judge Hutton, as I never saw him play 1 min. of meaningful BB.
It's more based off Fleming being unimpressive than anything else
He didn't deserve more opportunity last year because of his turnovers and how he had to shoot every time as soon as he came in. If he went to a crappy school in a big conference, it doesn't mean he was good. Just like since he chose to go to a small conference school where he knows the coach doesn't prove that he sucked. If you get a chance to re watch some of the games he played in you should. Maybe I should too. I'm curious to know if either of us would change our opinion.
I was hopeful that Hutton was going to be better because he was such an unknown and he looked so athletic. But from the things I heard it was pretty clear that he was out of his league. What I heard about Fleming was he was unhappy.
For what it's worth, I was more bummed when Hutton transfered than I was when Fleming did.
For what it's worth, I was more bummed when Hutton transfered than I was when Fleming did.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
You and I saw the same thing but came to different conclusions then I guess. Fran has never been shy about letting a player play through his mistakes. He encouraged Jok to always shoot, and put him on the floor a lot even though he made questionable decisions early, turned the ball over, lacked focus, etc. He let Marble play though mistakes, heck he encouraged Ogesbly to just keep shooting the ball. Heck he kept trotting out Ellingson, and I assume that is because he was outperforming Fleming. Fran isn't shy about playing younger kids that he sees upside in.
I agree but it got ridiculous. Every time he came in I would just hope he would play for a few trips down the floor before he did anything at all. But every time he would try to become the focal point of the offense from the very first possession. I really wonder what he and Frans conversations were.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I think PTL are pretty meaningless. He used it to show Fleming had a lot of talent and I just brought it up to emphasize they are meaningless since he said Hutton sucked
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Michigan St go on a hot streak with a combo guard (well, at best a combo guard; more like a combo 2-3) at point last year? That is, after he got back from an injury. Please don't tell me what a great point guard Denzel Valentine is; I'm not saying he isn't a great player, I'm saying he isn't a point guard but was thrust into the role out of need.
The "you can't tell anything from the PTL" crowd cracks me up. Somewhere along the line they heard someone else say it or maybe actually had a thought of their own, then they use it to belittle people. The smarter people understand there are things you can take from the PTL. You just have to know what to look for.
For instance, look at the scoring leaders every year. Other than a few outliers, the best players score the most and the worst players score the least. Watch the highlights. Is a guy making a bunch of wide open 3's? If so, that won't translate. Last year, Dale Jones was burying a bunch of deep contested 3's. That does translate. People should actually put some thought into things before they try to use blanket statements to sound smart.
For instance, look at the scoring leaders every year. Other than a few outliers, the best players score the most and the worst players score the least. Watch the highlights. Is a guy making a bunch of wide open 3's? If so, that won't translate. Last year, Dale Jones was burying a bunch of deep contested 3's. That does translate. People should actually put some thought into things before they try to use blanket statements to sound smart.
trj
Well-Known Member
I guess I am one of those "you can't tell anything from the PTL" crowd. All I care about are the current Iowa guys working on their weaknesses. I will admit I am biased I am from an era where I thought the PTL was just a glorified pick up game.
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