This Program Smells

HawkeyeWalker said:
The combination of all 3 things (wr not getting open, oline protection, and CJ holding a bit long). It's a vicous cycle.

There isn't an quick fix to all three, but a good OC could call more plays and schemes to help get the ball out quicker and buy the qb more time...
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You are right, it's a combo of all three. I see the crux of the situation as the WR's not getting open. That's why I keep calling
deanvogs said:
Fry's best finish was #10 in the country and he did that once. KF has finished top 10 5 different times. So you could say that Fry finished top 10 5% of the time and KF has done so 30% of the time. Stats are a funny thing, you can usually frame the argument to make it look however you like. So KF has given us 25% more top 10 teams than Hayden did. Hayden finished with 6 or less wins (8 times). KF has had 6 or less wins in only 5 years. I personally am not trying to say one is better than the other, just showing anyone can throw out stats to paint an unfair picture.

Fry won 60% of this games compared to KF 59%. If you take away the first two rebuilding years for both coaches Fry won 63% of his games from year 3-20. KF has won 64% of his games from year 3-present. They are nearly identical, and anyone who tries to tell you any different is just using selective stats, and not looking at an entire picture.
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Dean, you're right about stats. They can be juggled around if you have enough of them. Removing the first two rebuilding years is an example of that.

Hayden and Kirk have very similar records, relative to years of service, to date. But, what separates Hayden from Kirk, as the better coach, is that Kirk has lost more games to, or struggled against, teams we shouldn't have lost to. Many fans are simply tired of it. When Hayden was coaching, the national pundits gave Iowa "street cred"; whereas today, they don't and they don't because of the losing to or struggling against lesser teams.

Here are a couple other stats: Kirk Ferentz, in 17.5 seasons, has 89 total losses. In 20 seasons at Iowa, Hayden Fry had 89 losses. Also, Kirk Ferentz coached teams at Iowa have finished in the top 10 5 times and top 25 a total of 6 times, in 17 seasons. Hayden Fry coached teams at Iowa finished in the top 25 10 total times in 20 seasons, including a stretch of 8 out of 11 seasons. Kirk is boom or bust and Hayden was more consistent. Kirk would have to coach teams to top 25 finishes in the next 3 seasons (including this one) in order to finish 1 top 25 season behind Fry in each of their first 20 seasons at Iowa. Boom and bust creates frustration.
 
And, if you compare stats across eras you ignore circumstances.

KF inherited a team that had been stumbling for several years. Hayden's had been comatose for about 20.

Scheduling? How many times did Hayden miss Mich and / or OSU ? I know Hayden's teams played ooc games against Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA , and Miami (FL). How many similar for KF? How many W's did Hayden get against FCS / MAC?

Oh, and Hayden's teams were usually fun to watch. KF's?? Stats aside, its supposed to be entertaining, right?
 
ArvadaHawk said:
You are right, it's a combo of all three. I see the crux of the situation as the WR's not getting open. That's why I keep calling



Dean, you're right about stats. They can be juggled around if you have enough of them. Removing the first two rebuilding years is an example of that.

Hayden and Kirk have very similar records, relative to years of service, to date. But, what separates Hayden from Kirk, as the better coach, is that Kirk has lost more games to, or struggled against, teams we shouldn't have lost to. Many fans are simply tired of it. When Hayden was coaching, the national pundits gave Iowa "street cred"; whereas today, they don't and they don't because of the losing to or struggling against lesser teams.

Here are a couple other stats: Kirk Ferentz, in 17.5 seasons, has 89 total losses. In 20 seasons at Iowa, Hayden Fry had 89 losses. Also, Kirk Ferentz coached teams at Iowa have finished in the top 10 5 times and top 25 a total of 6 times, in 17 seasons. Hayden Fry coached teams at Iowa finished in the top 25 10 total times in 20 seasons, including a stretch of 8 out of 11 seasons. Kirk is boom or bust and Hayden was more consistent. Kirk would have to coach teams to top 25 finishes in the next 3 seasons (including this one) in order to finish 1 top 25 season behind Fry in each of their first 20 seasons at Iowa. Boom and bust creates frustration.
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Who cares about this stat or that stat, just win the games.
 
STILLBUSTER said:
Ya know what they say bout them hog lots here in Iwuh... the smell of money.

A lot like derKirkFeravis football ... dirty, stinky, solid gold pigshit.
Iowans r used to it, don't know any different and don't care enough to find out.
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I guess then fighting for Floyd is appropriate.
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
It's weird. There were improvements in a number of phases as well. Yes, the offense was rough to watch, but when you're clearly not a great squad and you win a road game at a venue that has not been easy, in a hostile environment, and you can't at least enjoy a win...well...

Criticism is warranted and the year has been dissappointing. I'm simply happy with the win and seeing a little improvement.

Welcome home Floyd.
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Agreed! Some folks just like to dwell on negative. Take the win, keep improving and move forward. Or we could sit around complaining and criticizing.
 
deanvogs said:
Those complaining about the win are the same people who claimed we couldn't win.
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I actually had my mind made up we were going to get killed! I just knew the goofs would run all over us but they didn't. The Hawks held them to 102. That's less than half what the goofs normally get so I was very pleased with the defense. Now the offense needs to step up and get their act together.
 
judzeehawk said:
I actually had my mind made up we were going to get killed! I just knew the goofs would run all over us but they didn't. The Hawks held them to 102. That's less than half what the goofs normally get so I was very pleased with the defense. Now the offense needs to step up and get their act together.
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The offense did seem closer this week at least. Untimely turnovers and penalties cost us quite a few points. If they go the right direction the next couple weeks, the Wisconsin game will actually be good. If not, we're toast because we're still nowhere near good enough to win the West right now.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
You are right, it's a combo of all three. I see the crux of the situation as the WR's not getting open. That's why I keep calling



Dean, you're right about stats. They can be juggled around if you have enough of them. Removing the first two rebuilding years is an example of that.

Hayden and Kirk have very similar records, relative to years of service, to date. But, what separates Hayden from Kirk, as the better coach, is that Kirk has lost more games to, or struggled against, teams we shouldn't have lost to. Many fans are simply tired of it. When Hayden was coaching, the national pundits gave Iowa "street cred"; whereas today, they don't and they don't because of the losing to or struggling against lesser teams.

Here are a couple other stats: Kirk Ferentz, in 17.5 seasons, has 89 total losses. In 20 seasons at Iowa, Hayden Fry had 89 losses. Also, Kirk Ferentz coached teams at Iowa have finished in the top 10 5 times and top 25 a total of 6 times, in 17 seasons. Hayden Fry coached teams at Iowa finished in the top 25 10 total times in 20 seasons, including a stretch of 8 out of 11 seasons. Kirk is boom or bust and Hayden was more consistent. Kirk would have to coach teams to top 25 finishes in the next 3 seasons (including this one) in order to finish 1 top 25 season behind Fry in each of their first 20 seasons at Iowa. Boom and bust creates frustration.
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I know you can spin it anyway you want. KF has had 5 seasons better than Hayden's best season. So the question is does finishing #14-#25 >> top ten?

I don't downplay what either one did, and I'm not going to make some big argument if you think Fry is better. I just don't see the stats that show that Fry was like somehow heads and shoulder superior to KF. Fry went 43-38 over his last 7 years. KF is on lots of people's shit list around here because he has gone 50-34 in his last 7 (includes this year til '10, I'm not even counting his great '09 year). The same people kicking dirt on KF, and downplaying what he does would have done the exact same thing to Hayden over his last 7 years (4 of his last 7 years were .500 or worse). It is a good thing that Fry didn't coach in a social media environment those last 7 years.
 
Joshbrown said:
350k/yr for Fry's output. After incentives about half what the dumbbell in charge of dumbbells makes. And what did Fry give us? Ranked teams 50% of the time. KF? Ranked teams 33% of the time. Over ten times as much money for less prestige. Yay for an establishment which delivers less and calls it more.
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Uh...what were YOU making 20-30 years ago? Minimum wage has probably doubled at least. You didn't think before you wrote that did you? Awww. Do you have a stat that shows "less prestige?" How many January 1 or 2 bowl games for Ferentz? 7 or 8? And before you tell me how many more bowl games there are...3 oranges..rose...outbacks and cap ones are all legit Jan 1 games. You admit that the record is the same..but we pay Ferentz too much. Ok. Fry was undervalued. How about that? My argument is WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? If Fry is a God....and he might be (mid-post edit..HE IS!)...doesn't it also make Ferentz...but we simply pay him more? ???
 
trj said:
The comparison to Fry goes a lot deeper than just record. I really do not know what to say; so their record is relatively the same, we are not suppose to second guess anything?
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No. All I see is arguments about statistics. X number of wins for 1 coach doesn't equal X number for the other? If that isn't absolute bias get a dictionary and study. Just say you don't prefer KF's style. Ok. Fair. Don't say KF sucks or isn't a good coach. That makes Fry the EXACT SAME. You can't weight wins. That's lunacy. Just say you are completely prejudiced against coach Ferentz..you don't prefer him..but don't say he's a bad coach. W's and L's. Its a bottom line business.
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
Uh...what were YOU making 20-30 years ago? Minimum wage has probably doubled at least. You didn't think before you wrote that did you? Awww. Do you have a stat that shows "less prestige?" How many January 1 or 2 bowl games for Ferentz? 7 or 8? And before you tell me how many more bowl games there are...3 oranges..rose...outbacks and cap ones are all legit Jan 1 games. You admit that the record is the same..but we pay Ferentz too much. Ok. Fry was undervalued. How about that? My argument is WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? If Fry is a God....and he might be (mid-post edit..HE IS!)...doesn't it also make Ferentz...but we simply pay him more? ???
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Don't let pride become arrogance. Keep it humble like your husband . . .

4ZUpKv.jpg
 
hawkeyes87 said:
And, if you compare stats across eras you ignore circumstances.

KF inherited a team that had been stumbling for several years. Hayden's had been comatose for about 20.

Scheduling? How many times did Hayden miss Mich and / or OSU ? I know Hayden's teams played ooc games against Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA , and Miami (FL). How many similar for KF? How many W's did Hayden get against FCS / MAC?

Oh, and Hayden's teams were usually fun to watch. KF's?? Stats aside, its supposed to be entertaining, right?
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deanvogs said:
I know you can spin it anyway you want. KF has had 5 seasons better than Hayden's best season. So the question is does finishing #14-#25 >> top ten?

I don't downplay what either one did, and I'm not going to make some big argument if you think Fry is better. I just don't see the stats that show that Fry was like somehow heads and shoulder superior to KF. Fry went 43-38 over his last 7 years. KF is on lots of people's shit list around here because he has gone 50-34 in his last 7 (includes this year til '10, I'm not even counting his great '09 year). The same people kicking dirt on KF, and downplaying what he does would have done the exact same thing to Hayden over his last 7 years (4 of his last 7 years were .500 or worse). It is a good thing that Fry didn't coach in a social media environment those last 7 years.
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People are upset with KF because we went 34-30 (19-21 conf) between 2010 and 2014. Then, when KF was, essentially, in a contract season, we go 12-0 (12-2.) KF gets a raise and a contract extension (absolutely, after 12-2 you give the coach a contract extension, if it's a contract season, for recruiting purposes) and immediately follows up with 2 home losses to what should be inferior teams. Again, we can quote all the numbers we want, but Kirk Ferentz is a Boom or Bust coach. Hayden Fry was more consistent. I won't downplay either's accomplishments, but they are very different coaches with different successes.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
People are upset with KF because we went 34-30 (19-21 conf) between 2010 and 2014. Then, when KF was, essentially, in a contract season, we go 12-0 (12-2.) KF gets a raise and a contract extension (absolutely, after 12-2 you give the coach a contract extension, if it's a contract season, for recruiting purposes) and immediately follows up with 2 home losses to what should be inferior teams. Again, we can quote all the numbers we want, but Kirk Ferentz is a Boom or Bust coach. Hayden Fry was more consistent. I won't downplay either's accomplishments, but they are very different coaches with different successes.
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It is only when people try to "parse" the wins is the only way to make them any different. KF wins at a 59% clip and Hayden won at a 60% rate, it is what it is. Personally, I think it is silly to try to say that a 8-4 and 9-3 season is somehow sooooo much > than a 11-2 and 7-5 season. Each 2 year stretch has 7 losses to Nash your teeth over and each has 17 or 18 wins to celebrate.
 
Joshbrown said:
Don't let pride become arrogance. Keep it humble like your husband . . .

4ZUpKv.jpg
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Now there it is...ignorance. And you think a homosexual reference hurts my feelings? Big boy pants in the wash? Worked when I was 5..now it just makes you look like a bigot. Happily married to a woman and confident in myself enough to respect all people. Maybe youd like to pick on minorities and handicapped people next?
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
Now there it is...ignorance. And you think a homosexual reference hurts my feelings? Big boy pants in the wash? Worked when I was 5..now it just makes you look like a bigot. Happily married to a woman and confident in myself enough to respect all people. Maybe youd like to pick on minorities and handicapped people next?
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The husband reference was cuz I thought you were a girl . . . Oh I get it, you think Hawkeye = male so that's what I should've assumed. Sexist (smh)
 
Joshbrown said:
The husband reference was cuz I thought you were a girl . . . Oh I get it, you think Hawkeye = male so that's what I should've assumed. Sexist (smh)
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Don't remember where it was, but I don't think that was your only gay reference over the weekend. I seriously doubt you thought women were in this thread based on some of the earlier childish comments by others.
 
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