But the problem is if NC doesn't come without Duke then more than likely the B1G takes them both.
Talk of FSU and Clemson to Big 12.
- Thread starter hawkfan1319
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But the problem is if NC doesn't come without Duke then more than likely the B1G takes them both.
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Then it won't happen.
In my opinion, there are too many other options for the B1G to take both UNC and Duke. For example (and not that I think this would happen either,)if you want to get into North Carolina, why not take NC State? That way you penetrate that market and only have one mouth to feed.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Because you are not looking to just feed a "mouth", you are looking to expand your revenues and bring more money to the conference for everyone to get a share. You get UNC & Duke and you turn the B1G into thee elite basketball conference in the NCAA. You get your football revenues with the extra TV sets but now you demand a premium for your basketball tv contracts as well. People across the country will tune into Duke versus whoever in basketball, only a few in North Carolina will care about NCST vs whoever.
There is no question that basketball in the B1G would get a lot more attention with those two schools in the league. I have been under the impression that basketball, no matter how good it is, can only bring in a small fraction of what football does. Therefore, there is not enough money to be made by bringing both schools in. I haven't seen any basketball revenue numbers, so I admit, I could be wrong.
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
You're not going to make enough money by bringing in both UNC and Duke. You can't squeeze $60 million a year out two schools in the exact same market who both suck at football.
This is what I am hearing down here. NC State is going SEC. Their academics don't fit with the B1G and they are a better cultural fit with the SEC. The SEC is taking NCSTATE and VaTech.
B12 is getting GTech, WVU, Clemson, FSU. They are then choosing between Miami, Louisville, and others. Also, they think the ND dream is alive, but every league believes that.
I am also hearing the ISU thing is a problem for a lot of these schools. They don't want 9 schools in the west and don't want a northern school, particularly one that doesn't add much revenue.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I am still with the DTwill it-will-never-happen crowd, but we can still dream. The money is in football, no question about it. Those 2 schools will pay for themselves just with football alone since it will add all those tv sets. But where they make the conference more money is with basketball. How much? I have no idea as no big time basketball conference has added a UNC & Duke to it's offering. You would have to figure it would be a lot as every time I tune into ESPN during basketball season it seems like they were showing some Duke vs whoever game.
Every conference is going all out to improve their football revenues, at some point it will be tapped out as you can only slice the pie so many ways. The only other potential for revenue growth is in basketball.
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Very interesting. They should just kick ISU out
I guess we'll see what happens in the next month or two.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
CAAR - what are you hearing about how the leagues line up? Are they just partners, or is it increased divisions? Lastly how does the Pac12 grow to keep up? We have a football schedule to think about? That point is being overlooked and I do not think that we will add members without them doing the same so soon after the announcement of those games.
A lot of rumors floating around the internet and the ISU athletics department that FSU will be announced a member of the Big 12 in the next couple weeks, the 12th member is Clemson? I wont be surprised if Notre Dame is all in at this point minus football and is then in after the 2015 season.
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Duke has over 25 programs offering Ph.Ds and top flight Medical and Law Schools. They are actually a better fit culturally thanND.
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Those schools will NOT pay for themselves with football TV sets. ONE of those schools MIGHT pay for itself by bringing North Carolina tvs, but if you bring in the second one, you add no additional tvs but still have to pay the school. There's no way it will work financially.
I think Big 12 gets their 12, FSU and Clemson looking most likely, and everyone stops there. ND will move olympic sports, if a conference will take them as partial member (Possibly ACC or Big12).
14 is yet to be proven as a successful model, so i think everyone else stands at 12 and waits to see if successful.
14 is yet to be proven as a successful model, so i think everyone else stands at 12 and waits to see if successful.
This is one of those interesting things. Remember how we first heard about 4 team divisions in 16 team conferences? I haven't heard anything along those lines lately, but I have heard the major conferences were actually inline with the CUSA people on the 2 rounds of in-conference playoffs. My understanding is the NCAA is still trying to figure out what the number of teams that need to be in a conference to approve this move, but you know if the Big Boys want it, it will happen.
This would fit really nicely with the 4/4 conference model. That would also work with the current thinking for the B1G possible expansion. Think of this - Nebby, Wisky, Minny, Iowa / Illinois, NW, UM, MSU / OSU, Purdue, Indy, PSU / Maryland, UVA, Duke, UNC. With the champs of each division seeded in a home field conference tournament. Now, of course, Delaney wouldn't allow this line-up. But it just gives you a picture of how things could look in the most simple terms.
Just think how awesome that game would be between an undefeated Iowa and a 2 loss UNC in Kinnick in early November!
As far as the P12 is concerned, I have no idea how they get to 16 teams. They really don't want to get involved with BYU. But it might end up that they need to just hold their nose and do it. Boise is NOT an option. They are a disaster academically.
Here is the issue for the P12. They need to get into the CTZ. They are doing that somewhat with the B1G agreement, but they need more than that. Right now they have the original P8 teams for a Western Conference. Their East looks like this - Utah, Colorado, UofA, ASU. They need four more teams.
Possible unattached candidates could be Nevada, BYU, CSU, and Air Force. But none of those is particularly attractive to key members of the conference. That then seems to indicate that Scott would probably have to strike a deal with Bowlsby to possibly pull a team or two from the B12 to be replaced by more Eastern expansion. And yes, that seems highly unlikely, but might be the only way for the P12 to get to 16.
It really is a gamble. If the B12 stays put at 12. Their champ may or may not be deemed worthy to be in the top 4. If they went to 16 and had 2 rounds of playoffs, it would seem highly unlikely that that champ wouldn't be top 4, as they would have beat 2 division winners. This would also give 4 B1G teams a chance to play for the NC and also make a crap load of money for the conference.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I don't think you just get the North Carolina TVs. I think you get South Carolina, southern Virginia, and eastern Tennessee. But again there has to be additional revenue on the basketball side of things or you are right, it does not make sense financially. The B1G will only expand if there is additional money to be made for all schools, not just to expand for the sake of expanding.
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Possibly, but you don't get any more of those tvs by adding both teams instead of just one.
This isn't how the BTN revenue situation works. You need to have a school in the state. Virginia will come with the UVA deal. That is an easier deal. No way So Carolina is in play. There was talk about Vandy to the B1G, but I never gave that much credence.
As DT has correctly stated, UNC would give you all you need in NC. Again, I have been saying for awhile that I thought Duke would be a good fit with Louisville, GTown, Cuse, Pitt, Wake, Nova, etc. in a primary basketball league. But, I have heard more and more talk lately of them both in the B1G, which might really have to do with the academics. But it might also be like the old Missouri to the B1G talk, which was just because people couldn't think outside existing boxes.
