Stephen A. Smith Rant - Vote For Trump

Grady said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Damn socialists. Oh wait, that's the Statue of LIberty. Guess we better take a wrecking ball to that sucker.
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I know what it says but I seriously doubt that it ever really meant it. Witness the Japanese interment in WW2.
 
pjgzell said:
Okeefe said, "The government ushered in widespread fascism and central planning through regulatory creep in DC starting with Roosevelt's New Deal."

Fascists are headed by a 'strong man, who does the ultimate in central planning with liberal application of force exerted on the citizenry. Fascism breeds tyrants like Putin, members of the Park dynasty in N. Korea, Xi. Hitler was a fascist. For fascists, fake elections are the rule, courts are tools of dear leader, and legislatures are constructed of sycophants, because the wrong mindset can be punishable by death. Fascist governments are loathe to hold fair elections, because they'd lose, and when an up and coming tyrant loses, he denies the result, sometimes with force. For a better discussion of fascism than I can give, see Yale prof Timothy Snyder's book, "On Tyranny."

If you don't like central planning, you'll hate Trump's second term, now that the Subprime Court has made POTUS above the law with respect to official acts. You're also gonna hate Project 2025, especially if you have a woman in your life who needs an abortion. The Subprime Court will be also going after birth control (see comments by Clarence Thomas after Hobbs). Education will consist of theocratic indoctrination. Undesirables (like scientists, artists, non-Christians) will be 'reeducated'. Members of the LGBTQ community will be singled out for special treatment. Non white communities will be repressed, and worse. If you have thoughts that contradict the thinking of dear leader, you'll want to keep them to yourself. If you value democracy, do not vote for the Donald.
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Isn't most of that stuff happening now? Are you one of the people who somehow don't see the irony of saying Donald Trump will go after his political opponents?
 
PCHawk said:
Isn't most of that stuff happening now? Are you one of the people who somehow don't see the irony of saying Donald Trump will go after his political opponents?
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Leftists are so full of soyglop, HFCS, propaganda and Pfizer juice that they can't think straight. Try not to engage them. They have no ability to understand how Jim Crow Joe (the man wanted to amend the Constitution to ban busing designed to desegregate schools) mandating the Pfizer COVID vaccine that was tested for 12 weeks is absolutely and categorically fascism. They believe they are rebels, but in actuality if propagandists create a straw man and then tell them they are opposed to that straw man thus they are rebels they will believe it. They have no ability to think critically whatsoever. If they could think, they would understand why taking some shit Pfizer tested for 12 weeks is stupid as F, yet here we are staring down 6 sigma actuarial excess death numbers and these dumbfucks are going on about how Trump is a fascist. The ability of the media to plant a shiny object in their brains is truly frightening, but if you point it out to them you are a "conspiracy theorist."
 
PCHawk said:
Isn't most of that stuff happening now? Are you one of the people who somehow don't see the irony of saying Donald Trump will go after his political opponents?
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The concept that "no man is above the law" is central to our democracy. Trump's 3 USSC appts made "no man is above the law" obsolete, to protect Trump. Mission accomplished.

You think poor Donald is a victim of political retribution? With respect to the porn star case, perhaps so. But this is the only case that was allowed to proceed, and a jury of his peers found Trump guilty on 34 out of 34 charges. So he shouldn't be held liable for law breaking because of who he is? The more important cases (the stolen files, the Jan. 6 insurrection) are being held up by Trump appointed judges (Cannon, 3 of the six seditionist subprimes). Are you suggesting that Trump shouldn't be accountable for these strong cases?
 
okeefe4prez said:
Leftists are so full of soyglop, HFCS, propaganda and Pfizer juice that they can't think straight. Try not to engage them. They have no ability to understand how Jim Crow Joe (the man wanted to amend the Constitution to ban busing designed to desegregate schools) mandating the Pfizer COVID vaccine that was tested for 12 weeks is absolutely and categorically fascism. They believe they are rebels, but in actuality if propagandists create a straw man and then tell them they are opposed to that straw man thus they are rebels they will believe it. They have no ability to think critically whatsoever. If they could think, they would understand why taking some shit Pfizer tested for 12 weeks is stupid as F, yet here we are staring down 6 sigma actuarial excess death numbers and these dumbfucks are going on about how Trump is a fascist. The ability of the media to plant a shiny object in their brains is truly frightening, but if you point it out to them you are a "conspiracy theorist."
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Okeefe said "Leftists are so full of soyglop, HFCS, propaganda and Pfizer juice that they can't think straight."

I'll have you know that my wife won't let me use jams on my toast if they have HFCS. As for your folderol regarding the Pfizer covid vaccine, there were how many excess deaths, those that would not have happened except for the administration of the vaccine? All your six sigma citation tells us is that the computed actuarial data has a low error value. And what was the death rate from covid for those unvaccinated souls versus the rate for vaccinated ones? Be sure to report any reviewed medical journals you are citing not including the name 'Fox'. How's that for critical thinking, you over-generalizer you?
 
pjgzell said:
The concept that "no man is above the law" is central to our democracy. Trump's 3 USSC appts made "no man is above the law" obsolete, to protect Trump. Mission accomplished.

You think poor Donald is a victim of political retribution? With respect to the porn star case, perhaps so. But this is the only case that was allowed to proceed, and a jury of his peers found Trump guilty on 34 out of 34 charges. So he shouldn't be held liable for law breaking because of who he is? The more important cases (the stolen files, the Jan. 6 insurrection) are being held up by Trump appointed judges (Cannon, 3 of the six seditionist subprimes). Are you suggesting that Trump shouldn't be accountable for these strong cases?
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The problem with "no man is above the law" is that pretty much every politician in the history of Americs has been above the law. Does that really not make you question why they picked Trump? Or do you just think no other politician has broken a law?

As far as being found guilty on 34 of 34 charges goes. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's 34 charges because he reimbursed his lawyer with 34 checks. If that's accurate, it's crazy as hell to call that 34 separate felonies.

In the stolen documents case, to me it depends on why he had them. If it was nuclear secrets he was selling to China, he needs to be executed. But if it was incriminating evidence on another politician, or proof that he didn't commit a crime that he thought his political opponents were going to charge him for, then I agree with him taking them. I'd also need to learn more about why all other presidents hold onto classified documents. Is it a standard practice that's no big deal, but they are out of nowhere charging Trump with it? If that's the case, I'm on Trump's side.

In the insurrection case, again I'd want to know more about what Trump knew. If it can be proved without a doubt he actually knew he lost (there's no way to prove that) but still pretended there was cheating, then he needs to be held accountable because that's a douche move. If he really thought he lost, then he was well within his rights to question the election and I'm on his side. If he somehow knew without a doubt that the election was stolen, then in my opinion he didn't do enough and I want no part of him being president again. If he's so weak that he knew a US presidential election was stolen and he let it happen, he has no business being in office again. A president can't let that happen.

I assume he only had heresy evidence of the election fraud and was kinda stuck in the middle on what to do. I can't really blame him much either way on that one.

Serious question for you. Does whether there was election fraud or not even factor into your decision on Trump's guilt? Or do you not care either way? Same question for the stolen documents. Do you even care which documents he had and why he had them? Do you care that other politicians have been known to have classified documents too? Do you question why he would keep classified documents when he could simply take a picture of it and put it back? It's all really strange to me.

One more question. Do you believe there were Feds in the crowd on January 6th?
 
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pjgzell said:
Okeefe said, "The government ushered in widespread fascism and central planning through regulatory creep in DC starting with Roosevelt's New Deal."

Fascists are headed by a 'strong man, who does the ultimate in central planning with liberal application of force exerted on the citizenry. Fascism breeds tyrants like Putin, members of the Park dynasty in N. Korea, Xi. Hitler was a fascist. For fascists, fake elections are the rule, courts are tools of dear leader, and legislatures are constructed of sycophants, because the wrong mindset can be punishable by death. Fascist governments are loathe to hold fair elections, because they'd lose, and when an up and coming tyrant loses, he denies the result, sometimes with force. For a better discussion of fascism than I can give, see Yale prof Timothy Snyder's book, "On Tyranny."

If you don't like central planning, you'll hate Trump's second term, now that the Subprime Court has made POTUS above the law with respect to official acts. You're also gonna hate Project 2025, especially if you have a woman in your life who needs an abortion. The Subprime Court will be also going after birth control (see comments by Clarence Thomas after Dobbs). Education will consist of theocratic indoctrination. Undesirables (like scientists, artists, non-Christians) will be 'reeducated'. Members of the LGBTQ community will be singled out for special treatment. Non white communities will be repressed, and worse. If you have thoughts that contradict the thinking of dear leader, you'll want to keep them to yourself. If you value democracy, do not vote for the Donald.
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Dude, abortion opportunities are still available and will always be available. It just gave the decisions back to the states. Way overblown and is only used as a political topic to push agendas. You need to back away from the cliff a bit. Trump is not going to put people in camps, re-educate anyone. You've listened to CNN waaaay tooo much. Ridiculous.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Leftists are so full of soyglop, HFCS, propaganda and Pfizer juice that they can't think straight. Try not to engage them. They have no ability to understand how Jim Crow Joe (the man wanted to amend the Constitution to ban busing designed to desegregate schools) mandating the Pfizer COVID vaccine that was tested for 12 weeks is absolutely and categorically fascism. They believe they are rebels, but in actuality if propagandists create a straw man and then tell them they are opposed to that straw man thus they are rebels they will believe it. They have no ability to think critically whatsoever. If they could think, they would understand why taking some shit Pfizer tested for 12 weeks is stupid as F, yet here we are staring down 6 sigma actuarial excess death numbers and these dumbfucks are going on about how Trump is a fascist. The ability of the media to plant a shiny object in their brains is truly frightening, but if you point it out to them you are a "conspiracy theorist."
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The fact that they lock in on those shiny objects is disconcerting, at least the number of people that do. It's really disturbing.
 
PCHawk said:
The problem with "no man is above the law" is that pretty much every politician in the history of Americs has been above the law. Does that really not make you question why they picked Trump? Or do you just think no other politician has broken a law?

As far as being found guilty on 34 of 34 charges goes. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's 34 charges because he reimbursed his lawyer with 34 checks. If that's accurate, it's crazy as hell to call that 34 separate felonies.

In the stolen documents case, to me it depends on why he had them. If it was nuclear secrets he was selling to China, he needs to be executed. But if it was incriminating evidence on another politician, or proof that he didn't commit a crime that he thought his political opponents were going to charge him for, then I agree with him taking them. I'd also need to learn more about why all other presidents hold onto classified documents. Is it a standard practice that's no big deal, but they are out of nowhere charging Trump with it? If that's the case, I'm on Trump's side.

In the insurrection case, again I'd want to know more about what Trump knew. If it can be proved without a doubt he actually knew he lost (there's no way to prove that) but still pretended there was cheating, then he needs to be held accountable because that's a douche move. If he really thought he lost, then he was well within his rights to question the election and I'm on his side. If he somehow knew without a doubt that the election was stolen, then in my opinion he didn't do enough and I want no part of him being president again. If he's so weak that he knew a US presidential election was stolen and he let it happen, he has no business being in office again. A president can't let that happen.

I assume he only had heresy evidence of the election fraud and was kinda stuck in the middle on what to do. I can't really blame him much either way on that one.

Serious question for you. Does whether there was election fraud or not even factor into your decision on Trump's guilt? Or do you not care either way? Same question for the stolen documents. Do you even care which documents he had and why he had them? Do you care that other politicians have been known to have classified documents too? Do you question why he would keep classified documents when he could simply take a picture of it and put it back? It's all really strange to me.

One more question. Do you believe there were Feds in the crowd on January 6th?
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PCHawk said: "As far as being found guilty on 34 of 34 charges goes. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's 34 charges because he reimbursed his lawyer with 34 checks. If that's accurate, it's crazy as hell to call that 34 separate felonies."

If you run a red light 34 times, you could be charged 34 times (if you were still alive). He wrote 34 checks, meaning he had 34 opportunities to change his mind; instead, he showed intent to defraud 34 times. I am not a lawyer. Perhaps if one is reading this, he/she could comment on the justification for so many counts.

Re your comments on the insurrection case: The Campaign Legal Center quoted Liz Chaney, "Rep. Liz Cheney, the former chair of the House Republican Conference, stated on February 23: "The president and many around him pushed this idea that the election had been stolen. And that is a dangerous claim. It wasn't true," she said. "There were over 60 court cases where judges, including judges appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents, looked at the evidence in many cases and said there is not widespread fraud." Yet Trump continued to ignore these findings and to lie about the outcome of the election. And on January 6, for 187 minutes, he passively watched the insurrection, while many around him pleaded that he contact the mob and call them off. He refused.

Re Trump's retention of classified documents: according to the New York Times' Luke Broadwater et al, 6/12/23, "The government tried repeatedly for more than a year and a half to get the former president to return documents from his time in office. Finally, it resorted to a search of his property and, eventually, criminal charges." See also Matt Tait of Lawfare Media.org, 6/14/23, "What are the Classified Documents in the Trump Indictment?"-https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-are-the-classified-documents-in-the-trump-indictment. Trump held onto some very serious stuff. By the way, classified documents were also discovered in Biden's properties. I don't know whether he knew they were there, but when they were discovered by his staff, they immediately turned the materials over to the government (I assume the National Archive).

Re your serious questions for me: I am convinced that our democracy is at risk due to Trump and his allies. His intent is to establish an authoritarian government, with him the dictator. There is ample evidence in the MSM and credible on-line sources to support what I am saying. Please do your own research. You will see that I am not engaging in hyperbole. I am frightened for our country, and you should be too.

You asked me, "One more question. Do you believe there were Feds in the crowd on January 6th?" I don't know; how would I. But I don't buy for a second the notion that the feds instigated the riot. And there were feds at the receiving end of the crowd's behavior, the Capitol Police.
 
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MelroseHawkins said:
Dude, abortion opportunities are still available and will always be available. It just gave the decisions back to the states. Way overblown and is only used as a political topic to push agendas. You need to back away from the cliff a bit. Trump is not going to put people in camps, re-educate anyone. You've listened to CNN waaaay tooo much. Ridiculous.
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Melrose said, "Dude, abortion opportunities are still available and will always be available. It just gave the decisions back to the states."

I think you are ill informed about the availability of reproductive care for women in the red states. Here's a link with a simple map you might find interesting: https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/

Actually, I listen to multiple TV news sources and subscribe to 3 newspapers. Being retired has its advantages. You seem to be way underestimating the threat Trump and his allies pose to our democracy, and our children's futures. Don't just accuse me of being hyperbolic, do your own damn research!
 
PCHawk said:
The problem with "no man is above the law" is that pretty much every politician in the history of Americs has been above the law. Does that really not make you question why they picked Trump? Or do you just think no other politician has broken a law?

As far as being found guilty on 34 of 34 charges goes. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's 34 charges because he reimbursed his lawyer with 34 checks. If that's accurate, it's crazy as hell to call that 34 separate felonies.

In the stolen documents case, to me it depends on why he had them. If it was nuclear secrets he was selling to China, he needs to be executed. But if it was incriminating evidence on another politician, or proof that he didn't commit a crime that he thought his political opponents were going to charge him for, then I agree with him taking them. I'd also need to learn more about why all other presidents hold onto classified documents. Is it a standard practice that's no big deal, but they are out of nowhere charging Trump with it? If that's the case, I'm on Trump's side.

In the insurrection case, again I'd want to know more about what Trump knew. If it can be proved without a doubt he actually knew he lost (there's no way to prove that) but still pretended there was cheating, then he needs to be held accountable because that's a douche move. If he really thought he lost, then he was well within his rights to question the election and I'm on his side. If he somehow knew without a doubt that the election was stolen, then in my opinion he didn't do enough and I want no part of him being president again. If he's so weak that he knew a US presidential election was stolen and he let it happen, he has no business being in office again. A president can't let that happen.

I assume he only had heresy evidence of the election fraud and was kinda stuck in the middle on what to do. I can't really blame him much either way on that one.

Serious question for you. Does whether there was election fraud or not even factor into your decision on Trump's guilt? Or do you not care either way? Same question for the stolen documents. Do you even care which documents he had and why he had them? Do you care that other politicians have been known to have classified documents too? Do you question why he would keep classified documents when he could simply take a picture of it and put it back? It's all really strange to me.

One more question. Do you believe there were Feds in the crowd on January 6th?
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I'm an avowed lefty, and will attempt to answer your questions:
1) Re Jan. 6, I broke ranks with my anti-Trump friends and never believed he should be prosecuted for "instigating" the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol. I listened to his entire speech that day and he never came close to saying anything criminal. Was he aware of plans to attack the Capitol? Of course, he gets security briefings every day. Did he play into that energy with his speech? Yes. Was he hopeful that somehow he might hold onto power? Judging from the content of his speech, possibly. Was he neglectful in executing his role as 'Commander in Chief' to assure a peaceful transfer of power that day? Having full knowledge of the attack and doing nothing for 3 hours would suggest yes -- and this is what he could have been prosecuted for.
2) Were Feds in the crowd on Jan. 6? I'd be shocked if they weren't! Holy cow, it's no secret they have informants within every radical group in the country, on both sides of the political spectrum. I was an anti-nuke leader in CA back in the late-70s, and when I requested my Freedom of Information files I discovered they had plants in our meetings and at the highest levels of progressive organizations -- I'm sure the same is true of right-wing groups. But did the Feds initiate the violence on Jan. 6? Of course not.
3) Re: the classified documents case, Trump brought this upon himself. If he just would have given the files when first asked, he wouldn't have been prosecuted. He was basically asking to be charged.
4) Re election results, I think the recording of Trump's call to the Georgia Sec. of State answers all your questions related to this. Trump didn't care if the election was fraudulent or not, he just didn't want to lose. He didn't call the Georgia Sec. of State and ask him to double-check to make sure the election there was fair...he requested that the Sec. of State find X number of votes, so he would win. This is surely a prosecutable offense, coming from the President of the U.S. Well, I guess it would have been, prior to last week's Supreme Court ruling.
 
PCHawk said:
Isn't most of that stuff happening now? Are you one of the people who somehow don't see the irony of saying Donald Trump will go after his political opponents?
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Trump is engaging in much more than the typical political infighting. You should have gotten the hint when he encouraged his Jan. 6 crowd to go to the capitol, on the very day when congress was to approve the states' results of the 2020 election, and when it turned violent, did nothing to stop it for over 3 hours. He also tried to get VP Pence to refuse to ratify the vote. He still contends the 2020 election was stolen from him. It wasn't. You might have a low opinion of some, if not most politicians. I dislike many of them. But Trump wishes to operate in a different political universe, one in which there will be no room for democracy. You want evidence? Check out the Subprime Court's opinion holding that a President cannot be held criminally liable for any "official" act. For the first time in our nation's history, we have a citizen who is legally above the law. A society in which any person is above the law cannot sustain a democracy.
 
pjgzell said:
Melrose said, "Dude, abortion opportunities are still available and will always be available. It just gave the decisions back to the states."

I think you are ill informed about the availability of reproductive care for women in the red states. Here's a link with a simple map you might find interesting: https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/

Actually, I listen to multiple TV news sources and subscribe to 3 newspapers. Being retired has its advantages. You seem to be way underestimating the threat Trump and his allies pose to our democracy, and our children's futures. Don't just accuse me of being hyperbolic, do your own damn research!
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Trump has already been in office once and we are all still alive and thriving. We aren't losing our democracy. Don't buy into the scare tactics.

Would you rather have a president in office with unfortunately some kind of dementia going on? Hell, even without the dementia he has absolutely zero stamina and needs days to recover. We can't have that either and I'm surprised nobody is calling out that. We can't have a president who is only lucid from 10:30 to 1:30. He had the chance to rest and prepare for 1-2 weeks before the debate and still got confused. We can't have a president with even minimal dementia going on let alone a noticeable diagnosis that is not being admitted to.
 
pjgzell said:
Trump is engaging in much more than the typical political infighting. You should have gotten the hint when he encouraged his Jan. 6 crowd to go to the capitol, on the very day when congress was to approve the states' results of the 2020 election, and when it turned violent, did nothing to stop it for over 3 hours. He also tried to get VP Pence to refuse to ratify the vote. He still contends the 2020 election was stolen from him. It wasn't. You might have a low opinion of some, if not most politicians. I dislike many of them. But Trump wishes to operate in a different political universe, one in which there will be no room for democracy. You want evidence? Check out the Subprime Court's opinion holding that a President cannot be held criminally liable for any "official" act. For the first time in our nation's history, we have a citizen who is legally above the law. A society in which any person is above the law cannot sustain a democracy.
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You are NEVER going to convince me that election was on the up and up. NEVER. Never going to convince me the dems didn't have ballots stuck in storage units they could pull out when needed to sway certain precincts.

You mention losing democracy. What do you think the reason is to open the borders and let millions of illegals come in to this country? To increase the voting base in the future. Get people who rely on the government and handouts to survive. This when these resources aren't being used to support our legal residents. Is this democracy? Then the constant attempt or drive to loosen the voting requirements like not having to show ID's. Is this democracy? Loosen the rules so pretty much anybody can vote or so it can't really be tracked. Provide paths for illegal voting. It's a crock of shit and people really look foolish trying to defend and support it.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Trump has already been in office once and we are all still alive and thriving. We aren't losing our democracy. Don't buy into the scare tactics.

Would you rather have a president in office with unfortunately some kind of dementia going on? Hell, even without the dementia he has absolutely zero stamina and needs days to recover. We can't have that either and I'm surprised nobody is calling out that. We can't have a president who is only lucid from 10:30 to 1:30. He had the chance to rest and prepare for 1-2 weeks before the debate and still got confused. We can't have a president with even minimal dementia going on let alone a noticeable diagnosis that is not being admitted to.
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Have you listened to Trump's delivery at his rallies? I agree with your concerns about Biden's ability to do the job long term, but I think that Trump is truly off his rocker. His niece, the clinical psychologist Dr. Mary Trump, labeled him a malignant narcissist. There are other democrats that I'd prefer to run for POTUS than Biden. That being said, if Biden refuses to step down, I'll vote for him and his risky longevity.
 
I don't want either candidate. Both parties are screwing the public over by putting them up. I hope they do something to make me feel better.
 
pjgzell said:
PCHawk said: "As far as being found guilty on 34 of 34 charges goes. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's 34 charges because he reimbursed his lawyer with 34 checks. If that's accurate, it's crazy as hell to call that 34 separate felonies."

If you run a red light 34 times, you could be charged 34 times (if you were still alive). He wrote 34 checks, meaning he had 34 opportunities to change his mind; instead, he showed intent to defraud 34 times. I am not a lawyer. Perhaps if one is reading this, he/she could comment on the justification for so many counts.

Re your comments on the insurrection case: The Campaign Legal Center quoted Liz Chaney, "Rep. Liz Cheney, the former chair of the House Republican Conference, stated on February 23: "The president and many around him pushed this idea that the election had been stolen. And that is a dangerous claim. It wasn't true," she said. "There were over 60 court cases where judges, including judges appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents, looked at the evidence in many cases and said there is not widespread fraud." Yet Trump continued to ignore these findings and to lie about the outcome of the election. And on January 6, for 187 minutes, he passively watched the insurrection, while many around him pleaded that he contact the mob and call them off. He refused.

Re Trump's retention of classified documents: according to the New York Times' Luke Broadwater et al, 6/12/23, "The government tried repeatedly for more than a year and a half to get the former president to return documents from his time in office. Finally, it resorted to a search of his property and, eventually, criminal charges." See also Matt Tait of Lawfare Media.org, 6/14/23, "What are the Classified Documents in the Trump Indictment?"-https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-are-the-classified-documents-in-the-trump-indictment. Trump held onto some very serious stuff. By the way, classified documents were also discovered in Biden's properties. I don't know whether he knew they were there, but when they were discovered by his staff, they immediately turned the materials over to the government (I assume the National Archive).

Re your serious questions for me: I am convinced that our democracy is at risk due to Trump and his allies. His intent is to establish an authoritarian government, with him the dictator. There is ample evidence in the MSM and credible on-line sources to support what I am saying. Please do your own research. You will see that I am not engaging in hyperbole. I am frightened for our country, and you should be too.

You asked me, "One more question. Do you believe there were Feds in the crowd on January 6th?" I don't know; how would I. But I don't buy for a second the notion that the feds instigated the riot. And there were feds at the receiving end of the crowd's behavior, the Capitol Police.
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I see what you are saying with the red light analogy, but I don't really agree with it. I think it's more like speeding down the highway and getting caught by 34 straight cameras. It's all one act of speeding. Otherwise a cop could just ride behind you and give you a new ticket for every time he clicks is radar gun.

I don't doubt you can find people that back the claim that there wasn't widespread election interference. But I see videos on X all the time of courtrooms discussing the widespread fraud. There have already been at least two local elections where the fraud was caught. I remember how long it took to sort out Florida in 2000. To me it's very telling how quickly everyone was so sure there was no fraud. It's a big country with a lot of polling sites. There is no way they could have known that really nothing was shady.

One way I look at it is I see cheating going on everywhere, regardless of how important it is. I was just talking to someone tonight who was complaining about people googling answers on trivia night. People find ways to cheat at all levels of sports. People cheat on tests in school. There is nothing more important with more power and more money at stake than a presidential election. How can anyone possibly think no one wants to win bad enough to cheat?
Also Trump did choose to ignore the findings of everyone who said there was no cheating. Instead he listened to all the people who said there were. I don't see how either side had more ground to stand on at the time. And you are really late to the party by saying the words "credible media".

In my mind, it's either a crime to have documents or it's not. Whether or not you give them back after they ask makes little to no difference to me. What does matter to me is Trump was the president and Biden wasn't. And if Biden "didn't even no he had them" that makes it even worse. How careless can you be?

You are convinced that a guy who was already president for 4 years and didn't steal our democracy is going to steal it this time around? That makes no sense. Thos time you have even less to worry about than last time. He already didn't do any of the things we were gaslighted into thinking he would do the first time. And this time if he gets in we don't even need to worry about him not conceding the election because he can't even run again. Hos max of two terms with have expired so he won't even run again.
 
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