Starting to hear some ugly rumors coming out of the Barnstormers AAU program

[Adam]

Keeping your child from being alone with other adults is virtually impossible. Most perps are family or family friends. You also can't keep them from being alone with peers where abuse also happens. Listen to the testimony of Kyle Stephens. I't heartbreaking.

Theory on child rearing is really hard to implement.

I understand that alot of families have a hard time managing working and raising children, but the reason these issues are reaching a societal zenith is because the family home dynamics have changed so greatly.

There is a reason why the old traditional family structure of fathers working and providing and mothers staying home to raise children was so successful for hundreds of years.

Once my wife and I had our first child our lives changed forever. We abandoned our selfish desires and sacrificed for the sake of our child. My wife left her 60k salary to stay home and be there for our daughter. Could we have a bigger nicer home? Sure. Could we have better furniture and more material things? Sure. Could we drive Mercedes's instead of Ford's? Sure. Would any of those things be worth it if our children ever had to experience something like this because of our unwillingness to be present? Not in my opinion.

Is it possible to let your children experience a full world in a safe and constructive way without being omni present? I'm sure many of you can attest that it is indeed possible. However I doubt that it doesn't increase the risks 10 fold.

For all the glitz and glamour of our modern culture it is still a sick and depraved world we live in. Evil lurks inside of every human everywhere. You can not shelter your children from every possible scenario, but parents sure as hell could reduce their children's exposure and reduce the risks. To me it comes down to personal choices and actions. As a parent I would choose poverty before before choosing to be absent.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

That's a risky situation for both parties. Kids can lie too.

There's that angle on it too. The fact parents are willing to put their kids out there to be acces
[QUOTE="revkev73, post: 1700269, member: 81504"]Pastor...wants to take boys from his youth group to a national youth rally...insists on saving money by having the boys "sleep" in his room...uuuuh, no..."well, then I won't take the boys." That's really weird bro... Resignation...

It takes a system of "support" to keep such people "in business"...PSU, Barnstormers, thousands of others... It takes a network of enablers..groomed...talented...sick...

Players who don't know any better...parents who "need" to have their kids become college and NBA talents...gay guys who love to spend unlimited hours around "athletic boys"...perfect storm

This story will not have a happy ending...and the puke won't be far from the University of Iowa[/QUOTE]
Churches are the worst... There's a local church about 10 miles from me that had a convicted child molester some how become the head day care person.... He was in that spot for years before it came to light.
Think about it all of these people we are talking about Pastors, teachers, coaches, friends etc are still strangers to us all aren't they. How well can anybody know them. We don't hardly know our next door neighbors yet we think blindly trusting temporary custody of minor children off to these people is a good thing. I'd rather not risk that crap happening. childhoods won't be ruined because they didn't go on an overnight trip with a pastor or play AAU basketball away from home for weeks at a time. This idea that kids need to stay overnight with one another with limited supervision from strangers is ridiculous. Think about it we can't even leave our kids alone with doctors (MSU) That's where our world has gotten to.

 

[Adam]

I guess im pretty damn sure id beat a pedophile till the cops got there if my 2 boys were molested. Everyone is different though

I can not blame you for your feelings. While I do not condone vigilate justice as a whole. I would not be able to restrain myself either if ever faced with the situation of someone hurting my children.

Let's face it. The legal system has no tools for combating pedophilia. It is an incurable sexual preference. So in these situations I would never be able to convict a parent for actions taken in response to the abuse of their children. I believe that any action resulting from such a scenario would easily fall under temporary insanity, and at the end of the day I am ok with that.

 

[HawkGold]

I understand that alot of families have a hard time managing working and raising children, but the reason these issues are reaching a societal zenith is because the family home dynamics have changed so greatly.



There is a reason why the old traditional family structure of fathers working and providing and mothers staying home to raise children was so successful for hundreds of years.

Once my wife and I had our first child our lives changed forever. We abandoned our selfish desires and sacrificed for the sake of our child. My wife left her 60k salary to stay home and be there for our daughter. Could we have a bigger nicer home? Sure. Could we have better furniture and more material things? Sure. Could we drive Mercedes's instead of Ford's? Sure. Would any of those things be worth it if our children ever had to experience something like this because of our unwillingness to be present? Not in my opinion.

Is it possible to let your children experience a full world in a safe and constructive way without being omni present? I'm sure many of you can attest that it is indeed possible. However I doubt that it doesn't increase the risks 10 fold.

For all the glitz and glamour of our modern culture it is still a sick and depraved world we live in. Evil lurks inside of every human everywhere. You can not shelter your children from every possible scenario, but parents sure as hell could reduce their children's exposure and reduce the risks. To me it comes down to personal choices and actions. As a parent I would choose poverty before before choosing to be absent.

You are speaking to the choir about family and sacrifices.

The rates of abuse really havent changed over time. Its always been a problem. Perps are very damn good at it is my point. Dont know how old your kids are, but my biggest surprise is how little control a parents have.

 

[PCHawk]

You are 100% correct. I am surprised more parents don’t snap, though. You look at your kid and all that innocence has been stolen I can see how someone would be uncontrollable angry.

I can not blame you for your feelings. While I do not condone vigilate justice as a whole. I would not be able to restrain myself either if ever faced with the situation of someone hurting my children.

Let's face it. The legal system has no tools for combating pedophilia. It is an incurable sexual preference. So in these situations I would never be able to convict a parent for actions taken in response to the abuse of their children. I believe that any action resulting from such a scenario would easily fall under temporary insanity, and at the end of the day I am ok with that.

Especially if you catch them red handed. If I heard about it, then saw that person later, I could maybe control myself. If I walked in on it, I would probably kill the guy and would definitely be temporarily insane.

 

[Adam]

You are speaking to the choir about family and sacrifices.

The rates of abuse really havent changed over time. Its always been a problem. Perps are very damn good at it is my point. Dont know how old your kids are, but my biggest surprise is how little control a parents have.

I really don't mean to argue because of the inflammatory nature of the topic, but doesn't a parent have complete control? We as parents don't have to integrate our children with society at all do we? I believe most of us do it for the healthy benefit of our children.

Yes my children are both young so I concede that my perspective could yet still change. I have not had to make parental decisions for a young adult yet, and I realize that the waters of such get murkier and not more clear as the children get older.

I also agree that largely the raw ratio numbers of sexually abused children has probably not changed much over the annals of history, but it is more to me that the situations in which it happens have morphed drastically. It seems not long ago that child sex abuse stemmed from fewer sources. It may of happened in the same variable ratio, but it would have been easier to prevent from parents consciously trying to prevent it.

I personally know families that were destroyed from foolhardy faith in the Catholic Church. The assumption that any person alive could achieve a state of being free from sin is by the bibles own teachings a simple falsehood.

People have known about the sickness that plauges mankind since the dawn of our existence. From the earliest point in human history one can find a plethora of examples of atrocities committed against humans, by none other than...humans.

A child is born with only 1 inherent safety net in this world. That is the instinctive mammal trait of maternal love. As a species we have made strides in establishing a foundation of love and care from both a father and a mother. We even pass that love and care down through generations. We call it family.

The saddest fundamental failure we face as species is the birth of children from parents who do not possess this instinctive trait. Instead we breed millions of children generationally that grow up without the proper love and care needed to develop emotionally and cognitively. Then we wonder how society could be so depraved. Would problems like this not exist if everyone was raised in a "perfect" manner? I'm sure they still would, but would they be anywhere near the extent? I highly doubt it.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I understand that alot of families have a hard time managing working and raising children, but the reason these issues are reaching a societal zenith is because the family home dynamics have changed so greatly.

There is a reason why the old traditional family structure of fathers working and providing and mothers staying home to raise children was so successful for hundreds of years.

Once my wife and I had our first child our lives changed forever. We abandoned our selfish desires and sacrificed for the sake of our child. My wife left her 60k salary to stay home and be there for our daughter. Could we have a bigger nicer home? Sure. Could we have better furniture and more material things? Sure. Could we drive Mercedes's instead of Ford's? Sure. Would any of those things be worth it if our children ever had to experience something like this because of our unwillingness to be present? Not in my opinion.

Is it possible to let your children experience a full world in a safe and constructive way without being omni present? I'm sure many of you can attest that it is indeed possible. However I doubt that it doesn't increase the risks 10 fold.

For all the glitz and glamour of our modern culture it is still a sick and depraved world we live in. Evil lurks inside of every human everywhere. You can not shelter your children from every possible scenario, but parents sure as hell could reduce their children's exposure and reduce the risks. To me it comes down to personal choices and actions. As a parent I would choose poverty before before choosing to be absent.

The keeping up with the 'Joneses' is what people can't seem to control. People care so much about where they are status wise in society/neighborhood/family. It's competition that everyone voluntarily takes part in. Families are constantly trying to find that balance of giving their kids everything and having everything etc etc. All while maxing out their credit cards and living above their means. It's how the housing bubble happened. Lots of folks like to blame the banks for giving out the sub prime loans to those that couldn't pay right. Well what's up with those same folks not being able to do math and know that for themselves prior to getting themselves into trouble? I'm a big proponent of controlling what you can. It's not that tough. A whole lot of folks seem to make life a lot tougher on themselves then it has to be.

 

[trj]

Especially if you catch them red handed. If I heard about it, then saw that person later, I could maybe control myself. If I walked in on it, I would probably kill the guy and would definitely be temporarily insane.

Not an apples to apples comparison, but Mike McQueary saw it go down and panicked. Maybe he reacts differently if it was his own kid........I don’t know. The natural instinct of a father protecting his family kicks in and you go bat shit crazy. As I stated before I am surprised more parents don’t snap.

 

[Doublewide]

The keeping up with the 'Joneses' is what people can't seem to control. People care so much about where they are status wise in society/neighborhood/family. It's competition that everyone voluntarily takes part in. Families are constantly trying to find that balance of giving their kids everything and having everything etc etc. All while maxing out their credit cards and living above their means. It's how the housing bubble happened. Lots of folks like to blame the banks for giving out the sub prime loans to those that couldn't pay right. Well what's up with those same folks not being able to do math and know that for themselves prior to getting themselves into trouble? I'm a big proponent of controlling what you can. It's not that tough. A whole lot of folks seem to make life a lot tougher on themselves then it has to be.

Spot on here.

 

[Fryowa]

Let's face it. The legal system has no tools for combating pedophilia. It is an incurable sexual preference.

While I agree with the idea that it’s an uncontrollable sickness, the sickness leads to hurting the weakest and most defenseless people in society, children. If their urges are acted on, they need to be dealt with as a cancer that has to be exterminated. Society should have no obligation to give them housing, food, water, and medical care for the rest of their lives. If ever released it will happen again, that is clear. Pedophiles and those who look at pictures taken by pedophiles should be given an injection (if you want to be nice) and thrown in a hole.

I can’t stress enough that these types of people stop being humans at that point and should have no civil rights.

 

[Adam]

While I agree with the idea that it’s an uncontrollable sickness, the sickness leads to hurting the weakest and most defenseless people in society, children. If their urges are acted on, they need to be dealt with as a cancer that has to be exterminated. Society should have no obligation to give them housing, food, water, and medical care for the rest of their lives. If ever released it will happen again, that is clear. Pedophiles and those who look at pictures taken by pedophiles should be given an injection (if you want to be nice) and thrown in a hole.

I can’t stress enough that these types of people stop being humans at that point and should have no civil rights.

I can't argue a single point. There is no rehabilitation for sexual preference and if someone has a sexual preference for children they have to be predators to ever achieve that sexual encounter. I would maybe argue that not only do they stop being human beings but perhaps even less then human. They don't even deserve the rights afforded to cats and dogs.

 

[Robowe]

Yes. I am aware of them but forget about them. Actually my boys in the past have played aganst Pump-n-run as well as some of the players on the Barnstormers. Thanks for the reminder. Always had respect for the Pump-n-run as they seem to be good guys. Duez and Jason as well. Good Hawks in the day.

 

[Fryowa]

Especially if you catch them red handed. If I heard about it, then saw that person later, I could maybe control myself. If I walked in on it, I would probably kill the guy and would definitely be temporarily insane.

This is the exact situation you are talking about...

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news...ts-son-molester-bloody-pulp-article-1.1872584

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Stephen did not respond to multiple calls from the Register, but his father, Roger Stephen, told the AP: "There's nothing to hide. It isn't the way it looks. My son has got many, many scholarship players for all the schools around here. The team has been a great, great deal for the community. He's a great guy and there's no reason for all this to happen."

Stuff like this pisses me off. How does the number of scholarships he's gotten kids even remotely matter.

There's a reason why they advise folks to lawyer up... Exibit A. WTF. There's no spinning/sugar coating this. There's no "well he did great things so this shouldn't matter" What kind of BS excuse is that? Just shut your mouth and come to the realization your son was doing some sick ass shit and he'll be locked up for the foreseeable future.
Has there been any follow up on this yet? I haven't heard if he's even been arrested yet

 

[earlkoppelman]

I understand that alot of families have a hard time managing working and raising children, but the reason these issues are reaching a societal zenith is because the family home dynamics have changed so greatly.

There is a reason why the old traditional family structure of fathers working and providing and mothers staying home to raise children was so successful for hundreds of years.

Once my wife and I had our first child our lives changed forever. We abandoned our selfish desires and sacrificed for the sake of our child. My wife left her 60k salary to stay home and be there for our daughter. Could we have a bigger nicer home? Sure. Could we have better furniture and more material things? Sure. Could we drive Mercedes's instead of Ford's? Sure. Would any of those things be worth it if our children ever had to experience something like this because of our unwillingness to be present? Not in my opinion.

Is it possible to let your children experience a full world in a safe and constructive way without being omni present? I'm sure many of you can attest that it is indeed possible. However I doubt that it doesn't increase the risks 10 fold.

For all the glitz and glamour of our modern culture it is still a sick and depraved world we live in. Evil lurks inside of every human everywhere. You can not shelter your children from every possible scenario, but parents sure as hell could reduce their children's exposure and reduce the risks. To me it comes down to personal choices and actions. As a parent I would choose poverty before before choosing to be absent.

Quality Post.Radar GPS in heart would help.And much more! Quality Talks to kids about "potential situations" please.....

 

[BryceC]

I really don't mean to argue because of the inflammatory nature of the topic, but doesn't a parent have complete control? We as parents don't have to integrate our children with society at all do we? I believe most of us do it for the healthy benefit of our children.

Yes my children are both young so I concede that my perspective could yet still change. I have not had to make parental decisions for a young adult yet, and I realize that the waters of such get murkier and not more clear as the children get older.

I also agree that largely the raw ratio numbers of sexually abused children has probably not changed much over the annals of history, but it is more to me that the situations in which it happens have morphed drastically. It seems not long ago that child sex abuse stemmed from fewer sources. It may of happened in the same variable ratio, but it would have been easier to prevent from parents consciously trying to prevent it.

I personally know families that were destroyed from foolhardy faith in the Catholic Church. The assumption that any person alive could achieve a state of being free from sin is by the bibles own teachings a simple falsehood.

People have known about the sickness that plauges mankind since the dawn of our existence. From the earliest point in human history one can find a plethora of examples of atrocities committed against humans, by none other than...humans.

A child is born with only 1 inherent safety net in this world. That is the instinctive mammal trait of maternal love. As a species we have made strides in establishing a foundation of love and care from both a father and a mother. We even pass that love and care down through generations. We call it family.

The saddest fundamental failure we face as species is the birth of children from parents who do not possess this instinctive trait. Instead we breed millions of children generationally that grow up without the proper love and care needed to develop emotionally and cognitively. Then we wonder how society could be so depraved. Would problems like this not exist if everyone was raised in a "perfect" manner? I'm sure they still would, but would they be anywhere near the extent? I highly doubt it.

Parents today spend more time with their kids than they have at any point in modern history.

https://qz.com/1143092/study-modern...heir-kids-than-their-parents-spent-with-them/

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Parents today spend more time with their kids than they have at any point in modern history.

https://qz.com/1143092/study-modern...heir-kids-than-their-parents-spent-with-them/

Totally believe that. I had a ton of freedom as a kid. I've heard for years that the time spent with kids is of no consequence to how your kid will turn out. People are individuals and they'll make their life choices how they'll make them. There's plenty of logic to the thought of how the apple doesn't fall far from the tree but it's not the end all be all. Not even close.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I understand that alot of families have a hard time managing working and raising children, but the reason these issues are reaching a societal zenith is because the family home dynamics have changed so greatly.

There is a reason why the old traditional family structure of fathers working and providing and mothers staying home to raise children was so successful for hundreds of years.

Once my wife and I had our first child our lives changed forever. We abandoned our selfish desires and sacrificed for the sake of our child. My wife left her 60k salary to stay home and be there for our daughter. Could we have a bigger nicer home? Sure. Could we have better furniture and more material things? Sure. Could we drive Mercedes's instead of Ford's? Sure. Would any of those things be worth it if our children ever had to experience something like this because of our unwillingness to be present? Not in my opinion.

Is it possible to let your children experience a full world in a safe and constructive way without being omni present? I'm sure many of you can attest that it is indeed possible. However I doubt that it doesn't increase the risks 10 fold.

For all the glitz and glamour of our modern culture it is still a sick and depraved world we live in. Evil lurks inside of every human everywhere. You can not shelter your children from every possible scenario, but parents sure as hell could reduce their children's exposure and reduce the risks. To me it comes down to personal choices and actions. As a parent I would choose poverty before before choosing to be absent.

Post of the year. Well stated. We did the same in our family. Wife previously worked as a therapist but when boys turned 4 decided to change the dynamic of our family so she could be home or around more instead of having them go to after school programs, etc, or find care for them in the summer. They by far aren't perfect, but they are pretty balanced boys. She took on a job with the school system and didn't get paid nearly what she did before, but was on the same schedule as them and had the summers off as well. She wanted a job where she wouldn't have to miss their sporting games, practices, etc..

We provide structure and a schedule. They go to bed without complaining because that is all they know. They don't sleep in the same bed with us because that is all they know. They are almost 11 now, get up and get themselves ready for school without having to be told to get moving or asked if they are ready or complain about going. We can even leave them home together for short times and not worry that they are killing each other or burning the place down.

Luckily she just recently advanced within the school district and her salary went up quite a bit, which is a bonus. So, I am currently looking to upgrade our 11yr old van that I got when the boys were born and in the market for a new vehicle. I'm not looking to get a Lexus, although, we'd probably be able to afford it. No, I'm looking to purchase a Subaru Outback, because that is what is practical for our family at this time.


On a side note, I read the other day that the average monthly car loan has just exceeded $500 for the first time, and is now at $503.00 a month. That is just ridiculous, IMO!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Sexuality is a core essence of human beings. It permeates every aspect of our social, psychological and physiological existence and functioning. So much of our identity - who we are, how we behave, how we see and interact with the world and others - is based on sexuality.

Just like your body, it can be injured and scarred. Unfortunately, because it is not just physical, but also, psychological, emotional and spiritual, that scarring is usually deeper and more permanent. I'm no biologist but I'd bet that, because it's touches so much of your entire being, it more quickly becomes a more ingrained defect.

In my first career in mental health counseling, worked a little over a year with both victims and perps (generally, fathers) of incestuous sexual abuse. So often, the perps have had their own sexually traumatic and / or abusive experience. One related how, as a pre-teen, he and friends would frequently swim naked with their fathers and other adult men (in his case, church elders). Imagine all the "incidental" touching during such a fun activity and "bonding" experience. To them, probably normal, however, still no less traumatic and damaging to the development of their sexual identity and sexuality.

In no way does it excuse - and I'm certainly not advocating any sympathy - but it does help explain.

At their very core, these perps are intrinsically defective. Without intensive, ongoing treatment, extreme measures to restrict and monitor them, they have a high recidivism rate. I don't know about execution (I agree, it would be no great loss to society or humanity) but there's no doubt their burden outweighs their worth and the best way to prevent them from destroying others' is to isolate and eliminate them.

We always hear on the news when talking about an individual reported to be on the sexual registry, that they are a low risk, medium risk or high risk to re-offend. Do you have anything to add or touch on the vetting that goes on to determine the risk level for these individuals? Is it all by interviewing the individual, well along with history for some?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

You are speaking to the choir about family and sacrifices.

The rates of abuse really havent changed over time. Its always been a problem. Perps are very damn good at it is my point. Dont know how old your kids are, but my biggest surprise is how little control a parents have.

I clearly remember as a young boy trying to be enticed or picked up in my small hometown in NE Iowa by some middle aged (50-60) man that I don't believe lived in our town. I can still vividly picture the intersection where I was and his green car he was driving. I never told anybody. I got the hell out of there and just went along with my day.