Rivals 2013 Class Rankings

PalmettoHawkFan said:
crack 33% and the 3 is the better shot

ugly to watch, but effective
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The mid range game gets to the FT line a lot more and that is problem for the other team.
Marble played 30 mins per game and shot 189 FTs. Ogelsby played 16 mins PG and shot 24 FTs. Besides the number of points scored, think of the effect all of those fouls that Marble drew, had on the opposing team's line up options.
It's also harder for opposing teams to take the 3 pt shot away from a player, if he has a mid range game and Jok can shoot the 3 (45 % or so this last season, IIRC).
I've had to guard both 3 pt specialists and players with a good mid range game. It was much easier to guard the 3 pt specialist. I didn't have to work nearly as hard on the defensive end.
Doesn't matter. It's just my opinion.
 
Clowns said:
Bold claim when watching a combined zero minutes of them play college basketball. ISU played multiple good defensive teams last year, it just didn't matter. The comments from ND before the game still amuse me to this day about slowing the Cyclones down.

Mid range is the worst shot you would ever want. The longer the two, the worse the shot it is. If you're going to shoot a step or two inside the 3 point line you might as well just shoot the 3.

Jok is not a post, he isn't going to pull bigs away from the hoop because they will be in there guarding White and Woodbury. I don't doubt that Jok is a good shooter but when your argument about why you want him over any players ISU recruited is because of his shooting, Matt Thomas is the most touted of both teams without question.
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I don't consider "a step or two inside of the 3 pt line" a mid range game. I'm talking anywhere from 12-16 ft. A guy that can dribble drive inside the FT line and hit a pull up jumper before a post defender can step out and challenge the shot. Or hitting a 15' baseline jumper.
 
Matt Thomas is a good shooter as long as he's coming off of screens in College. I've seen several high light reels of both and I like Jok better than Thomas. Jok is 92% from the FT line. Thomas is 82% from the FT line.
If you'd like to trade us Thomas for Josh Ogelsby, I'm all ears.
 
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Why does Aaron White score 13 PPG? He's not a good 3 pt shooter (27%) or a post player. How did Marble score 15 PPG? He shot .327 from 3. He's not a post player either.
How did Will Clyburn score 15 PPG? He shot 30% from 3 pt range and he's a guard.
Can you guys guess the one thing they all have in common? They each shot about 200 FTs and my guess is that they didn't get fouled from behind the arc, very often. If at all.
 
Use any measure you want, Iowa State was one of the best offensive teams in college basketball last year. Disagree with the methods all you want but the results speak for themselves.

Why wouldn't Thomas run off a bunch of screens? Why won't Jok? To a man anybody that has watched Jok say his ball handling is his weakness.

And no offense to oglesby, but I wouldn't trade a walk on for him.
 
BryceC said:
And no offense to oglesby, but I wouldn't trade a walk on for him.
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Was that pun (offense) intended? I am not a member of the bash Oglesby club. I like his basketball IQ and think his shooting will come around...having other shooters on the team will certainly help with the mental aspect of it IMO. I would not trade Oglesby for a walk on so we are at an impasse.
 
lightning1 said:
Matt Thomas is a good shooter as long as he's coming off of screens in College. I've seen several high light reels of both and I like Jok better than Thomas. Jok is 92% from the FT line. Thomas is 82% from the FT line.
If you'd like to trade us Thomas for Josh Ogelsby, I'm all ears.
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If I wouldn't trade you Thomas for Jok, I sure as hell wouldn't do it for JO either.
 
lightning1 said:
Why does Aaron White score 13 PPG? He's not a good 3 pt shooter (27%) or a post player. How did Marble score 15 PPG? He shot .327 from 3. He's not a post player either.
How did Will Clyburn score 15 PPG? He shot 30% from 3 pt range and he's a guard.
Can you guys guess the one thing they all have in common? They each shot about 200 FTs and my guess is that they didn't get fouled from behind the arc, very often. If at all.
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Versatility and having the ball in their hands would be the answer. Using Clyburn is not a good example, he either shoots the 3 or takes it to the rim, he doesn't use midrange all that much. I don't watch Iowa enough to know for sure, but I bet Marble is the same type of ball-in-hand, take-it-to-the-rim type player. Fouls on 3's probably happen as much as pull-ups from just inside the FT line, but I don't keep those statistics. Most fouls are in the post area, loose balls, steal attempts or illegal screens. If you combined illegal screens and steal attempt fouls, more times than not I think they would total higher than fouls on jump shots from 2 or 3 combined. That is just my opinion, hence the "I think", so don't ask me to provide stats, just what I've gathered from watching college basketball. I say this having watched ISU who shoots jump shots as much as any team in the country.
 
lightning1 said:
The mid range game gets to the FT line a lot more and that is problem for the other team.
Marble played 30 mins per game and shot 189 FTs. Ogelsby played 16 mins PG and shot 24 FTs. Besides the number of points scored, think of the effect all of those fouls that Marble drew, had on the opposing team's line up options.
It's also harder for opposing teams to take the 3 pt shot away from a player, if he has a mid range game and Jok can shoot the 3 (45 % or so this last season, IIRC).
I've had to guard both 3 pt specialists and players with a good mid range game. It was much easier to guard the 3 pt specialist. I didn't have to work nearly as hard on the defensive end.
Doesn't matter. It's just my opinion.
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Fred's offense isn't predicated on having a three point specialist. Its predicated on having multiple 3 point threats. There were guys on your team that had no business nor inclination to guard a 3 point shooter. Fred would exploit that even if YOU were the best 3 point defender in the nation.

ISU beat Baylor with hardly any 3 point shooting success. Why? Because having the 3 pointer as a threat opened up 2 point baskets. Baylor had some big fellas that were exploited. You may have seen the bottom of some of their feet.
 
BryceC said:
Use any measure you want, Iowa State was one of the best offensive teams in college basketball last year. Disagree with the methods all you want but the results speak for themselves.

Why wouldn't Thomas run off a bunch of screens? Why won't Jok? To a man anybody that has watched Jok say his ball handling is his weakness.

And no offense to oglesby, but I wouldn't trade a walk on for him.
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I just told you that Thomas would. That's because he has neither the first step or ball handling skills to beat a D-1 defender off of the dribble. So that's the only option for him.
As for the ISU offense........it didn't look so good against Iowa. Neither did it's defense, which no surprise, excelled in the mid range area.
 
jacknicholson said:
Wonder how Iowa State get such a high ranking with three 3 star, and one non-ranked player along with players ranked 54 and 96, and are said to be top heavy on JC transfers......

I have to admit that Fred is doing well with his style of recruiting and coaching.....

It will be very nice to spank the clowns next season in Ames......
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Can't wait to quote this next winter.


I don't know who will win in Ames next year, but I would venture to bet there isn't a "spanking" by the Hawks in Hilton.
 
Clowns said:
Versatility and having the ball in their hands would be the answer. Using Clyburn is not a good example, he either shoots the 3 or takes it to the rim, he doesn't use midrange all that much. I don't watch Iowa enough to know for sure, but I bet Marble is the same type of ball-in-hand, take-it-to-the-rim type player. Fouls on 3's probably happen as much as pull-ups from just inside the FT line, but I don't keep those statistics. Most fouls are in the post area, loose balls, steal attempts or illegal screens. If you combined illegal screens and steal attempt fouls, more times than not I think they would total higher than fouls on jump shots from 2 or 3 combined. That is just my opinion, hence the "I think", so don't ask me to provide stats, just what I've gathered from watching college basketball. I say this having watched ISU who shoots jump shots as much as any team in the country.
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You are wrong about Marble but you admitted that you didn't watch Iowa that much. Marble could score anywhere from the rim to the 3pt line. He doesn't have NBA ball handling skills. He doesn't beat guys off the dribble with speed. He can't jump out of the gym. Yet he still managed 15 PPG and the reason is because he has a mid range game.
 
lightning1 said:
Matt Thomas is a good shooter as long as he's coming off of screens in College. I've seen several high light reels of both and I like Jok better than Thomas. Jok is 92% from the FT line. Thomas is 82% from the FT line.
If you'd like to trade us Thomas for Josh Ogelsby, I'm all ears.
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Of course you would say this.
 
Cydkar said:
Fred's offense isn't predicated on having a three point specialist. Its predicated on having multiple 3 point threats. There were guys on your team that had no business nor inclination to guard a 3 point shooter. Fred would exploit that even if YOU were the best 3 point defender in the nation.

ISU beat Baylor with hardly any 3 point shooting success. Why? Because having the 3 pointer as a threat opened up 2 point baskets. Baylor had some big fellas that were exploited. You may have seen the bottom of some of their feet.
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And how did that work out for Fred against Iowa this season? Let me remind you. 80-71 LOSS.
 
mj4cy said:
Of course you would say this.
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I'm willing to wager on it. So it isn't just something I say because I'm an Iowa fan.
Now ask me to wager on whether or not I believe Thomas will be better than Ogelsby? You'll find out the limits of my homer-ism, quickly.
 
mj4cy said:
Can't wait to quote this next winter.


I don't know who will win in Ames next year, but I would venture to bet there isn't a "spanking" by the Hawks in Hilton.
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Not sure what constitutes a spanking but I expect Iowa to win in Hilton. And since that doesn't happen very often, I'm not willing to predict more than a 1 pt win.
 
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