Point Guard

lightning1 said:
You are flat our wrong about Purdue not having a "true PG". Where on Earth did you get that notion? They actually start 2 PGs. Same with Virginia, for that matter.
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Virginia starts 6’5 Ty Jerome at PG. He is not a quick player who can penetrate off the dribble.

Purdue starts PJ Thompson. He is also not a very athletic guy who can penetrate. He shoots less than 2 2 point shots per game which is a pretty good indication he’s not much of a driver. Now they have that guy in Carsen Edwards but again he’s not playing the “point” for them.

I’ve been told these type of players (Jerome and Thompson) are not true PGs. I am not a person who agrees with that stance, hence why I’m arguing against it. I think PGs can come in all shapes and styles.
 
Magic was a great PG...tall...

John Stockton was a great PG...short...

The Greek Freak often plays the point for the Bucks...tall, athletic...

Yes, they come in many shapes and sizes...the great ones are quick...
 
All teams have weaknesses...

The great coaches are able to hide the weaknesses with expert coaching prior to and during the games. They also hide weaknesses by coaching up a fundamentally sound team.

Iowa has neither...thus...the results are hideous
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Virginia starts 6’5 Ty Jerome at PG. He is not a quick player who can penetrate off the dribble.

Purdue starts PJ Thompson. He is also not a very athletic guy who can penetrate. He shoots less than 2 2 point shots per game which is a pretty good indication he’s not much of a driver. Now they have that guy in Carsen Edwards but again he’s not playing the “point” for them.

I’ve been told these type of players (Jerome and Thompson) are not true PGs. I am not a person who agrees with that stance, hence why I’m arguing against it. I think PGs can come in all shapes and styles.
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Both teams have 2 PGs that start in the back court, at the same time. I havent seen Virginia enough to know but Edwards handles the ball for Purdue a lot. Virginia actually runs a 3 guard line up. I'll watch the next couple of Virginia games and tell you exactly how many 'true PGs" they have. I can guarantee you it's at least 1, if not 2.
 
lightning1 said:
Both teams have 2 PGs that start in the back court, at the same time. I havent seen Virginia enough to know but Edwards handles the ball for Purdue a lot. Virginia actually runs a 3 guard line up. I'll watch the next couple of Virginia games and tell you exactly how many 'true PGs" they have. I can guarantee you it's at least 1, if not 2.
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I don’t think you understand. The guy who plays the majority of the minutes at PG for both those teams can’t create off the dribble through penetration. I’ve been told that means they aren’t a true PG.

Again I think both those teams are very good and both those PGs are very solid at their particular roles on each team, they are just not a true PG in the sense they they can penetrate off the bounce.

(By the way. Virginia’s 2 guard avarages 1.5 assists and 1.4 turnovers per game. He is not a PG, not even close. He a volume shooting 2 guard.)
 
I can't believe this is still an argument after the season we are having and the glaring weaknesses at the point. JB is not a true PG, I've been saying this for 2 years. He cannot break down an opposing defense off the dribble nor can he guard the opposing teams point without help.
 
ssckelley said:
I can't believe this is still an argument after the season we are having and the glaring weaknesses at the point. JB is not a true PG, I've been saying this for 2 years. He cannot break down an opposing defense off the dribble nor can he guard the opposing teams point without help.
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But neither can the primary point guards at Purdue or Virginia and they are top 5 in the country. Can you explain that?
 
ssckelley said:
I can't believe this is still an argument after the season we are having and the glaring weaknesses at the point. JB is not a true PG, I've been saying this for 2 years. He cannot break down an opposing defense off the dribble nor can he guard the opposing teams point without help.
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That's not a "true PG"... that's what you want in your PG. A true PG is Jon Stockton. I'd encourage anyone to argue that fact. If we had Jon Stockton on this team as a sophomore, he'd be averaging less then Jordan in every category of the game and would be getting railed because we needed a scoring PG. While I agree that he can't consistently break down an opposing team off the dribble, that's not the roll of a PG. A true PG runs the offense and his primary job is to facilitate scoring opportunities for his/her team or sometimes themselves. It's hard to argue that Jordan doesn't do that. His #'s certainly indicate that. There's more then one way to skin a cat and if Iowa had better play from 2 and 3 spot you wouldn't complain about Jordan.
 
ssckelley said:
I can't believe this is still an argument after the season we are having and the glaring weaknesses at the point. JB is not a true PG, I've been saying this for 2 years. He cannot break down an opposing defense off the dribble nor can he guard the opposing teams point without help.
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Iowa needs SOMEONE that can break down the defense and get you a bucket when you need it. That doesn't need to be your pg although often times it is. Last year Jok was that guy. 2 years ago it was JU. BF that it was AW. RDM before that. No one on this team has that ability. That's about to change when JW arrives. Go Hawks. Oh, and heAl that foot JBo. Healthy JBo is an excellent pg. He even d'd up Mason on Tu. Tight man D with a bad wheel is really tough.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I don’t think you understand. The guy who plays the majority of the minutes at PG for both those teams can’t create off the dribble through penetration. I’ve been told that means they aren’t a true PG.

Again I think both those teams are very good and both those PGs are very solid at their particular roles on each team, they are just not a true PG in the sense they they can penetrate off the bounce.

(By the way. Virginia’s 2 guard avarages 1.5 assists and 1.4 turnovers per game. He is not a PG, not even close. He a volume shooting 2 guard.)
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Carson most certainly can create off the dribble. I'm sorry but you couldn't be more clueless in this discussion. I don't even know where you are getting your stats from!
Devon Hall - 12.7 ppg, 3.1 apg, 1.0 turnovers pg
Ty Jerome - 9.8 ppg, 3.6 apg, 1.7 turnovers pg
 
BigD said:
Figure it out?? Ok, you have to stop the penetration from JBo’s player and also cover your guy in the post. That’s what’s been killing Iowa most seasons as they give up way to many points to the opponents after they break down our defense. They are getting either easy points right under the basket or WIDE OPEN looks from three point land.

Wieskamp may add a distraction with his shooting ability next year that will help JBo get more open shots but if if Wieskamp lacks quickness defensively we will be facing the same problems we have this year. Next year could mean winning and losing by scores such as 107-102, :eek:
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Better/more entertainment then the 44-41 Licklighter years anyway..
 
lightning1 said:
Carson most certainly can create off the dribble. I'm sorry but you couldn't be more clueless in this discussion. I don't even know where you are getting your stats from!
Devon Hall - 12.7 ppg, 3.1 apg, 1.0 turnovers pg
Ty Jerome - 9.8 ppg, 3.6 apg, 1.7 turnovers pg
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Carsen Edwards can create off the dribble but again he’s playing off the ball primarily at the 2 guard.

Clueless? You just said you haven’t seen much of Virginia. Ty Jerome is their primary PG, he’s a very good player but he doesn’t break down defenses off the dribble. Devon Hall is their small forward. Both very good players, but in no way “true PGs” by the definition others posters are saying.

Again we keep going back and forth here and not getting any where. The only point I’m making is that both those teams are very good, and their primary point guards don’t create much offense off the dribble, same with Koenig the last few years for Wisconsin. There is no way you will get me to back down from that stance, because it is 100% true, you could even ask their fan bases.

That leads to my argument that Iowa could still be a good team with JBo at the PG even though he can’t break down defenses with penetration. For instance if we traded Moss and Baer to Virginia for Kyle Guy and Devon Hall, JBo would still be our primary PG, and we’d likely be an NCAA team.

Do you follow that line of thinking at least, regardless if you agree or don’t agree?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Carsen Edwards can create off the dribble but again he’s playing off the ball primarily at the 2 guard.

Clueless? You just said you haven’t seen much of Virginia. Ty Jerome is their primary PG, he’s a very good player but he doesn’t break down defenses off the dribble. Devon Hall is their small forward. Both very good players, but in no way “true PGs” by the definition others posters are saying.

Again we keep going back and forth here and not getting any where. The only point I’m making is that both those teams are very good, and their primary point guards don’t create much offense off the dribble, same with Koenig the last few years for Wisconsin. There is no way you will get me to back down from that stance, because it is 100% true, you could even ask their fan bases.

That leads to my argument that Iowa could still be a good team with JBo at the PG even though he can’t break down defenses with penetration. For instance if we traded Moss and Baer to Virginia for Kyle Guy and Devon Hall, JBo would still be our primary PG, and we’d likely be an NCAA team.

Do you follow that line of thinking at least, regardless if you agree or don’t agree?
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Yes clueless! You're making up stats to fit your argument! Just stop with this already. You're wrong and making shit up to fit your nonsense.
 
lightning1 said:
Yes clueless! You're making up stats to fit your argument! Just stop with this already. You're wrong and making shit up to fit your nonsense.
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Hahahaha!

You literally said you hadn’t seen Virginia play much and then you researched their stats to back up your argument (although it doesn’t conflict at all with my argument that their PG isn’t a penetrator).

Then you call me out for twisting stats to fit my argument when I didn’t even have a single stat in post. Either your reading comprehension is really bad or this relatively easy to grasp concept is flying way over your head.

Answer this question and I’ll be done with this discussion:
Can teams be good if their primary Point Guard cannot create offense off the dribble?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Hahahaha!

You literally said you hadn’t seen Virginia play much and then you researched their stats to back up your argument (although it doesn’t conflict at all with my argument that their PG isn’t a penetrator).

Then you call me out for twisting stats to fit my argument when I didn’t even have a single stat in post. Either your reading comprehension is really bad or this relatively easy to grasp concept is flying way over your head.

Answer this question and I’ll be done with this discussion:
Can teams be good if their primary Point Guard cannot create offense off the dribble?
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Yes you can be good but not great very often. It will be Purdue and Virginias undoing.

For s team like Iowa to be great with few great players the place to start is Pt Guard.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Hahahaha!

You literally said you hadn’t seen Virginia play much and then you researched their stats to back up your argument (although it doesn’t conflict at all with my argument that their PG isn’t a penetrator).

Then you call me out for twisting stats to fit my argument when I didn’t even have a single stat in post. Either your reading comprehension is really bad or this relatively easy to grasp concept is flying way over your head.

Answer this question and I’ll be done with this discussion:
Can teams be good if their primary Point Guard cannot create offense off the dribble?
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I did not research their stats to make an argument. I researched their stats because the assists/to stuff you tried to pass of was nonsense and I knew it was nonsense.
I may not have watched Virginia play much but I've seen them play enough over the years, to know that what kind of offenses Bennet runs and how he uses his guards. He's the anti-McCaffery. He wants 2 or even 3 PGs on the floor at the same time. So, you go ahead and try to single out the 1 guard with the worst assist/to ratio to try and make some ridiculous comparison. Be my guest.
 
InGoodCo said:
That's not a "true PG"... that's what you want in your PG. A true PG is Jon Stockton. I'd encourage anyone to argue that fact. If we had Jon Stockton on this team as a sophomore, he'd be averaging less then Jordan in every category of the game and would be getting railed because we needed a scoring PG. While I agree that he can't consistently break down an opposing team off the dribble, that's not the roll of a PG. A true PG runs the offense and his primary job is to facilitate scoring opportunities for his/her team or sometimes themselves. It's hard to argue that Jordan doesn't do that. His #'s certainly indicate that. There's more then one way to skin a cat and if Iowa had better play from 2 and 3 spot you wouldn't complain about Jordan.
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And a lot of PG's can't score effectively either. That is something JBo brings. He's a fine PG. Team defense is the problem not JBo
 
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