**OFFICIAL CUBS REGULAR SEASON THREAD**

hawkfarmer said:
Potential future trades of cubs prospects include Brett Jackson, Junior Lake, and Josh Vitters.

I don't believe the cubs feel that Vitters is the future at 3B with his defense. They have some young prospects such as Baez or Candelario that may be a better fit. They also traded for Villanueva, though he may be better suited for 2B.

Junior Lake has a lot of upside, but missing a lot. With Barney under control for a while and few good prospects I could see him getting moved to help get better pitching prospects in a bundle deal.

I think we will see Vitters in Chicago this year. he may even be there next year, but he likely isn't the solution.

Also for Jackson, has high potential, and has high value. I could see him getting traded to improve trade packages. He's good, but strikesout a lot and not sure he'll get that figured out.


Just some thoughts as I looked at some of teh cubs top prospects.
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I do not think the Cubs are in position to trade away prospects at this point. Once they get the farm system built up, shed some bad contracts at the top, and look to compete at the MLB level then they may look to make trades.

Vitters is not much of a trade commodity at this point, I am sure other teams scouts see what we see. Hopefully he will not turn into that Brad Snyder or Hoffpauir type AAA+ prospect. Fortunately for him the Cubs are in a build mode so he will be given a shot later this season and probably next season. Let's hope he turns into a Ramirez type player who can hit enough to make up for his defensive inabilities.

I hope Villanueva develops as a hitter and stays at 3rd as he is a good defensive 3rd baseman. With Castro developing at shortstop, good gloveman at 2nd in Barney, and having a good fielding 1st baseman in Rizzo it would be great to have a good hitting/great defensive infield. He made a nice splash by hitting 2 home runs in his Daytona debut.

We need to demonstrate patience with some of these other prospects. Some of these kids are only 18/19 years old and have a ways to go before being considered ready to play in Wrigley.

As far as Jackson is concerned, 154 strikeouts in only 400 at bats speaks for itself.
 
I don't think anyone should write off Jackson at this point. But my god his K stats are crazy, striking out about 2/5 if the time does not cut it.

But from what the scouts say, and from what I've seen in DM, he is still a really good player. And he is still a good player offensively, which is really saying something. For the Icubs, I've seen him come up with 2 outs and nobody on, single, steal second, and then get sent home to score on the next guys base hit.

When I go to an Icubs game, it's fun to watch their bigger prospects, like him. He Ks a lot, but he also has power and can generate one man offense. Not many guys in Chicago can do that.

He also is pretty good defensively by my observations. This is something that's hard to know, watching a few games, but he sure looks athletic and comfortable out in center.

I really want to see him in Chicago, just to give it a try. I'm not ready to forget about him and move on to Szczur just yet
 
I'm not saying the cubs will trade these guys, but they could to sweeten the pot on say a Garza deal. If you look at the cubs farm they have some good depth at the middle infield. A lot of good players. As you all know not all will work out but if some do the cubs would still have a log jam.

You have 3 good 3B prospects Vitters, Vilanueva, and Candelario
You have a good SS prospect in Baez, but Castro is blocking him for the very very long future, so does he move to 3B or 2B.
Lake is a good prospect at 2B but needs time to develop. If he does great and then you can move Barney, but then again maybe Baez is better there. I don't know.

There are also a couple of guys that are in A/AA that the cubs really like that are more speed/finesse guys like Barney. Gioskar Amaya and Marco Hernandez that the cubs are really high on.

Rizzo seems to be the future 1B for a long time. What about Vogelbach. he could be a good trade chip since he's not going to play anywhere but first it would seem, maybe DH.


The cubs actually have some good infield prospects. Some will have to be traded if they want to actually use their value. They all won't work out, but again there are some log jams, so some trades will happen. For example with lake, he is highly regarded but still very raw. Someone would really like to have him and he could increase the value of another trade package. I have been high on Lake for along time because he has a strong arm and some power, but just needs to polish. The cubs have time to wait for this, but maybe his best value is as a trade piece, maybe.

I want to see what Vitters and Jackson can do in Chicago. See if they are potential solutions or just holding pieces.


I'm also excited about these OF prospects:

Soler
Almora
Szcur (he's doing well at AA, and is getting used to be a baseball player)
Also Reggie Golden, not as much as the others, but he has potential if he can stay healthy.

The cubs biggest need is pitching prospects. It is still very poor. If you can increase value by including Lake or Vitters or Jackson to get better pitching prospects. I say do it.
 
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Hawkfarmer, I get what you are saying but your way of thinking is like the front office of the old regime. A good farm system should create a log jam but until they get good at the top then it is silly to trade away prospects that could help you. The only position the Cubs have a potential log jam may be first base as Rizzo appears to be the real deal. But that does not mean you look to trade away Vogelbach who is playing in the low levels. If in a couple of years he is producing in AAA the way he is producing now in low A then you might look to make a move or change his position. Log jams is a good problem to have and a sign both the farm system and the parent club are producing. Hopefully soon we will see potential log jams at the pitcher position. It could happen as there are some good young arms in the lower levels. Baez hitting his 11th home run tend to stand out more than Prieto pitching 2 hitless innings in Arizona.

If the Cubs are looking to sweeten the pot in a Garza deal the team you are dealing with is probably going to be in contention so you sweeten the deal with other veterans like the Cubs/Braves deal in the Cubs including Reed Johnson. It is rare to see a bad team including prospects to sweeten the pot on a deal unless they have given up on that prospect. I cannot see the Cubs giving up on Jackson yet.
 
Vitters would be a heckuva player if he could just improve his defense.

Was at the I-Cubs game last night and he scalded a line drive to short that about knocked the guy on his rear. Short hopped the SS, who had no chance after that - it looked like the SS was afraid of the ball with the way he turned away. Quite funny.

But it was the hardest hit liner I had witnessed in my years of going to Principal Park. It was a 94 mph heater and he murdered it. Ball really does make a different sound off his bat - much louder as he seems to square the ball up rather consistently.
 
I'm interested in junior lake, as ive heard he is extremely talented and still fairly raw. The word on him seems to be that he has a really strong arm, one of the best defensive arms in the system. I think he could be a candidate for third base, and Baez could be the guy to move to second. This is obviously some over anxious speculation, but just a thought.

I can see Baez at second, in the mold of the modern 2nd basemen with tons of power and style/swag. They say he's really flashy in his game and has superstar potential. That reminds of the Robby Cano, Brandon Phillips style second basemen. I see Baez's upside as similar to that. I'm not saying he can be the player Cano is, but it seems like he models his game after a player like Cano. Although cano is a lefty
 
ssckelley said:
Hawkfarmer, I get what you are saying but your way of thinking is like the front office of the old regime. A good farm system should create a log jam but until they get good at the top then it is silly to trade away prospects that could help you. The only position the Cubs have a potential log jam may be first base as Rizzo appears to be the real deal. But that does not mean you look to trade away Vogelbach who is playing in the low levels. If in a couple of years he is producing in AAA the way he is producing now in low A then you might look to make a move or change his position. Log jams is a good problem to have and a sign both the farm system and the parent club are producing. Hopefully soon we will see potential log jams at the pitcher position. It could happen as there are some good young arms in the lower levels. Baez hitting his 11th home run tend to stand out more than Prieto pitching 2 hitless innings in Arizona.

If the Cubs are looking to sweeten the pot in a Garza deal the team you are dealing with is probably going to be in contention so you sweeten the deal with other veterans like the Cubs/Braves deal in the Cubs including Reed Johnson. It is rare to see a bad team including prospects to sweeten the pot on a deal unless they have given up on that prospect. I cannot see the Cubs giving up on Jackson yet.
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We are on the same page. I'm not saying trade them immediately, but that they have some trade value. They need to continue to develop those guys and then they can become more valuable as players or trade pieces. You are absolutely right about Vogelbach and Lake and getting them to AAA at least. However, I will say with Lake that if the chance appeared I would trade him now. Why? because he is still a project. If you can help get pitching prospects that are closer to ready then you have to think about it. For Vitters and Jackson, I want to see them in Chicago before I would trade them, but don't think either is the long term solution for the cubs (2015)
 
Another position for a potential log jam may be at shortstop. I was quick to overlook the fact that Castro has made big strides defensively at short and it may not be a good idea to move him to another position. He has only made 15 errors in 500 chances this season and this is with LaHair playing a bulk of the year at first.
 
ssckelley said:
Another position for a potential log jam may be at shortstop. I was quick to overlook the fact that Castro has made big strides defensively at short and it may not be a good idea to move him to another position. He has only made 15 errors in 500 chances this season and this is with LaHair playing a bulk of the year at first.
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I agree. I think Castro is going to stay at SS until he gets older, like 30, so that is 8 more years.

With Baez coming up I think he has to move to 3B or 2B and then Lake and Vitters, Villanueva, etc. etc. are going to get jammed. It's a good problem to have.
 
I may be wrong on trading Jackson. According to this BN article Jackson did get pulled out of a game in a potential trade with the Dodgers.

How Close Were the Cubs to Trading Alfonso Soriano This Week, and Where Do They Go From Here? | Bleacher Nation | Chicago Cubs News, Rumors, and Commentary

To me it seems silly to trade your most highly rated prospect as a throw in to get either Webster or Lee. The Cubs are going to need a center fielder as DeJesus is not the long term answer. Perhaps the FO considers Jackson to be a bust, I know I do. I cannot see how you can consider someone to be a top 50 prospect when they strike out almost 40% of the time in AAA unless you are hitting 40+ home runs.
 
Jackson is never going to be a star. he's never going to bat leadoff. he has a good arm, some power, and good speed. But he strikes out a lot and doesn't take walks. To me this is an average player that you use to fill gaps but don't build your foundation around.
 
What has happened to Jackson this season? I think he has 3x the strikeouts of last year and every offensive stat has dropped off. Just hoping it's a fluke season and he didn't already reach his peak, that would be a little disheartening.
 
hawkfarmer said:
Jackson is never going to be a star. he's never going to bat leadoff. he has a good arm, some power, and good speed. But he strikes out a lot and doesn't take walks. To me this is an average player that you use to fill gaps but don't build your foundation around.
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I am scratching my head trying to figure out where you bat a guy like this. He strikes out to much to bat at the top of the order and does not hit for enough power to hit in the middle of the lineup nor does he drive in a lot of runs. My guess is he is a #6 or 7 hitter. I hope he is a really good defensive center fielder (I have not heard either way).

ILHawkeye said:
What has happened to Jackson this season? I think he has 3x the strikeouts of last year and every offensive stat has dropped off. Just hoping it's a fluke season and he didn't already reach his peak, that would be a little disheartening.
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Actually he only has 16 more strikeouts than he did last year. The disappointment is that he has not made any improvements in that area. His minor league career has been pretty consistent.
 
ssckelley said:
Actually he only has 16 more strikeouts than he did last year. The disappointment is that he has not made any improvements in that area. His minor league career has been pretty consistent.
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That's my bad, I apparently can't read too well. I just glanced at the AAA stats. The strikeout numbers do seem too high though, especially if they want to bat him near the top of the order.
 
Garza still has stiffness in his arm and was sent back to Chicago. So it will be interesting to see who will start tomorrow as Coleman, Rusin, and Raley all pitched over the weekend for the ICubs.
 
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