**OFFICIAL CUBS REGULAR SEASON THREAD**

DuffMan said:
Based on his limited time playing outfield.
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I gathered that. I'm asking if you've seen him play outfield in the minors on a consistent basis or if you're basing it off of statistics and if so which ones.

I'll admit that I'm basing my assumption of his bad outfield defense off of his less than athletic look, some struggles I've seen at first base and limited outfield experience. I feel like he'd be Jake Fox out there, which was bad. Really, really bad.
 
50 million dollars was wasted on Fukodome, in no way shape or form did he justify that contract or had the production expected out of someone playing right field. That little running slap swing he had looked horrible and I threw up in my mouth every time he swung. He has one of the worst swings I have ever seen at the major league level from someone that was expected to hit for high average and have some power.

I cannot believe I am siding with a Cardinal fan here but e11en assessment on Fukodome, and how the Cubs handled it, is 100% correct.
 
bcl20 said:
I gathered that. I'm asking if you've seen him play outfield in the minors on a consistent basis or if you're basing it off of statistics and if so which ones.

I'll admit that I'm basing my assumption of his bad outfield defense off of his less than athletic look, some struggles I've seen at first base and limited outfield experience. I feel like he'd be Jake Fox out there, which was bad. Really, really bad.
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He got called up last year and played a handful of games for the first time in his career and passed the eyeball test and didn't embarass himself. No one will confuse him for Clemente out there, but it's not hard to imagine him being a Carlos Lee type. In around 50 OF chances last year he only had a few errors, which isn't a total embarassment, especially considering he hadn't spent much time there recently.

Bottom line is while he wouldn't have a ton of range he wouldn't be a complete butcher out there and it's not like the Cubs have a long pedigree of solid corner outfield play. Again he might actually be an upgrade over Soriano defensively, and I don't think there is any question he's a much better offensive player right now.

BTW I'm sure you can pull some in depth advanced sabermetric fielding stats that will show he's a bad outfielder, but honestly I don't care enough about that **** to take the time to understand it.
 
Fukudome got on base at a .370 clip (no he never hit for much power which is why his OPS never reached above .800) with the Cubs. Pretty solid, he never justified his contract (and god we gave out way too many bad ones under Hendry) but he was still an above average player when combined with solid defense. I liked him with the Cubs. He hasn't been good in the AL though.

It's kind of a shame that good baseball players with bad contracts get criticized because of it when it's the GM's fault that they gave it out in the first place but that's the nature of the beast.
 
DuffMan said:
He got called up last year and played a handful of games for the first time in his career and passed the eyeball test and didn't embarass himself. No one will confuse him for Clemente out there, but it's not hard to imagine him being a Carlos Lee type. In around 50 OF chances last year he only had a few errors, which isn't a total embarassment, especially considering he hadn't spent much time there recently.

Bottom line is while he wouldn't have a ton of range he wouldn't be a complete butcher out there and it's not like the Cubs have a long pedigree of solid corner outfield play. Again he might actually be an upgrade over Soriano defensively, and I don't think there is any question he's a much better offensive player right now.

BTW I'm sure you can pull some in depth advanced sabermetric fielding stats that will show he's a bad outfielder, but honestly I don't care enough about that **** to take the time to understand it.
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There's not much to base it off of as he hasn't played outfield that much plus there are flaws to defensive metrics (though there are times I use them). But anyways, I would love for him to be solid defensively and to continue his hitting. A lineup with him playing well and Rizzo living up to what he's supposed to, along with Castro could be good and enough to win even next year as long as the starting pitching continues to perform well.
 
Duff, my dream lineup would have LaHair replacing Soriano out in left and Rizzo playing first. But I do not think it will happen as I guess Soriano is making to much money to be sitting on the bench, at least that is what I keep hearing. But if I was running the team that is where he would be.

But LaHair can play the outfield and has played the outfield position as far back as 2003 in low A ball. In 2009 he played 21 games in right field and 66 games in left field for Tacoma and had a perfect fielding percentage. The Iowa Cubs used LaHair in a few games in left field last year anticipating he would play in left field when he got called up. Out of the 16 games he started last year 14 of them were in the outfield (9 in right and 5 in left). He will never win a gold glove in the outfield but you lose nothing defensively playing him over Soriano in left field.
 
bcl20 said:
DuffMan said:
He got called up last year and played a handful of games for the first time in his career and passed the eyeball test and didn't embarass himself. No one will confuse him for Clemente out there, but it's not hard to imagine him being a Carlos Lee type. In around 50 OF chances last year he only had a few errors, which isn't a total embarassment, especially considering he hadn't spent much time there recently. Bottom line is while he wouldn't have a ton of range he wouldn't be a complete butcher out there and it's not like the Cubs have a long pedigree of solid corner outfield play. Again he might actually be an upgrade over Soriano defensively, and I don't think there is any question he's a much better offensive player right now. BTW I'm sure you can pull some in depth advanced sabermetric fielding stats that will show he's a bad outfielder, but honestly I don't care enough about that **** to take the time to understand it.
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There's not much to base it off of as he hasn't played outfield that much plus there are flaws to defensive metrics (though there are times I use them). But anyways, I would love for him to be solid defensively and to continue his hitting. A lineup with him playing well and Rizzo living up to what he's supposed to, along with Castro could be good and enough to win even next year as long as the starting pitching continues to perform well.
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which is why I said limited time
 
bcl20 said:
Fukudome got on base at a .370 clip (no he never hit for much power which is why his OPS never reached above .800) with the Cubs. Pretty solid, he never justified his contract (and god we gave out way too many bad ones under Hendry) but he was still an above average player when combined with solid defense. I liked him with the Cubs. He hasn't been good in the AL though.

It's kind of a shame that good baseball players with bad contracts get criticized because of it when it's the GM's fault that they gave it out in the first place but that's the nature of the beast.
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bcl, this is insane. I don't know what you are calculating to what average production should be for a right fielder but there is no way in h3ll Fukodome was an above average hitter for a right fielder. Defensively maybe but you are talking about offensive production. Your average right fielder hits better than .263, 13 home runs, and 58 RBIs (I am using his top stat for each catagory). His OPS was so damn high in 2010 because his OBP was .371 due to 64 walks he had that year in only 429 plate appearances. His other seasons his OPS was .738, .796, and .742 which is low for a right fielder.
 
just crazy talk here, but any chance rizzo gets looks in the corner OF? I realize his future is at 1B but there are lots of guys who had to change positions early in their careers because there were guys in front of them with great production, Yukolis and Pooholes both come to mind
 
just crazy talk here, but any chance rizzo gets looks in the corner OF? I realize his future is at 1B but there are lots of guys who had to change positions early in their careers because there were guys in front of them with great production, Yukolis and Pooholes both come to mind
 
ssckelley said:
bcl, this is insane. I don't know what you are calculating to what average production should be for a right fielder but there is no way in h3ll Fukodome was an above average hitter for a right fielder. Defensively maybe but you are talking about offensive production. Your average right fielder hits better than .263, 13 home runs, and 58 RBIs (I am using his top stat for each catagory). His OPS was so damn high in 2010 because his OBP was .371 due to 64 walks he had that year in only 429 plate appearances. His other seasons his OPS was .738, .796, and .742 which is low for a right fielder.
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Please don't look at David Dejesus lifetime OPS. ;) OK, it's .774.

Cliff Floyd in 2007 = .795

Jaques Jones in 2006 = .833 :eek:

Jeremy Burnitz in 2005 = .757

Wow, that's some kind of list of RFs. I could go further (Jerry Moralez, anyone ? OPS = .696 in 1975), but you get the drift. I would say mostly average for a Cubs RF! :)

Just having some fun here - we are all Cub fans! :D
 
Woody, you left out Sammy Sosa (.928 as a Cub) and Andre Dawson (.834 as a Cub). Fukodome was payed 50 million dollars and produced a career .772 OPS as a Cub. Again the only reason why it was so high was because he took so many walks. I want power at the Right Field position, not someone who is going to look at a hittable pitch hoping to draw a walk. How many times did we see him take one right down the middle for a called 3rd strike?
 
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ssckelley said:
Duff, Rizzo has never played the outfield professionally at any level.
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Can he shag fly balls without getting hurt? :p

Here he is tagging Castro out! Little did he know ...

Anthony+Rizzo+Chicago+Cubs+v+San+Diego+Padres+MLUPAs4GkEsl.jpg
 
ssckelley said:
bcl, this is insane. I don't know what you are calculating to what average production should be for a right fielder but there is no way in h3ll Fukodome was an above average hitter for a right fielder. Defensively maybe but you are talking about offensive production. Your average right fielder hits better than .263, 13 home runs, and 58 RBIs (I am using his top stat for each catagory). His OPS was so damn high in 2010 because his OBP was .371 due to 64 walks he had that year in only 429 plate appearances. His other seasons his OPS was .738, .796, and .742 which is low for a right fielder.
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In 2009 he was 11th in the NL in OPS among outfielders.

In 2010 he was above .800 in OPS, which would put him around 14th or so. I'd say that's above average. Getting on base because of walks is still getting on base and he did so at around a .370 clip. Pretty good, combine that with good defense and I'd say he was an above average player.

Also, 13 home runs in this era is probably around average if not a little higher than average for a right fielder.
 
woodyk1 said:
Ignoring Sammy ... The Hawk is the man!
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But by leaving those 2 out you are removing the 18 previous seasons before Fukodome got to Chicago. Jacque Jones only played in 2 seasons and his OPS as a Cub was a dismal .788. Mainly due to the fact he forgot how to hit the ball out of the ball park in 2007.
 
bcl20 said:
In 2009 he was 11th in the NL in OPS among outfielders.

In 2010 he was above .800 in OPS, which would put him around 14th or so. I'd say that's above average. Getting on base because of walks is still getting on base and he did so at around a .370 clip. Pretty good, combine that with good defense and I'd say he was an above average player.

Also, 13 home runs in this era is probably around average if not a little higher than average for a right fielder.
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I just don't know why you think OPS is the end all stat in determining worth?
 
DuffMan said:
He got called up last year and played a handful of games for the first time in his career and passed the eyeball test and didn't embarass himself. No one will confuse him for Clemente out there, but it's not hard to imagine him being a Carlos Lee type. In around 50 OF chances last year he only had a few errors, which isn't a total embarassment, especially considering he hadn't spent much time there recently.
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If those numbers you just threw out are true, they are horrible for an OF at any level.

By comparison Alfonso Soriano had 202 chances in 2011 and made 7 errors for a fielding percentage of .965.
 
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