More suspensions on the way

[HawkGold]

So which part of my post do you disagree with? Do you think we aren't headed down a path where whites are discriminated against or do you think it's good we are headed down that path?

You coin it as one or the other. I agree things are better. It's not us against them. It just isn't. Actually I have been discriminated against. In my early days I applied for several police officer jobs and made the top ten roster, one of which was at a good sized city. I was an aggie and you know what the 80s and 90s were like for ag. One I didn't get as I was very young (actually was ranked #1, not trained, and weighed 140 pounds. The other was because they only hired females and blacks off that roster to fill several spots. Whites didn't get hired at all that go around. Glad it didn't work out now.

I've also seen and experienced discrimination in the University world. I just think seeing it as us against "them" is a wrong path. Whites will eventually be not the majority (compared to non whites) in the coming 50 years. It's happening in Europe.

It's happening and I'd rather be a part of the change toward making it positive than making it a negative. Your post in and of it's self would be construed as divisive whether you see it that way or not.

Life is always messy.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Sorry if I've said this on here before but the world is less racist than it was 100 years ago and it's way less racist than it was 300 years ago. We are clearly moving in the right direction. The way it's going tho is we are on the path of a huge overcorrection. If it keeps up like this, in 100 years white people will be oppressed and in 300 years white people will be slaves. People just need to use common sense and treat others like they want to be treated (that goes for all races) and quite trying so hard to overcorrect to make up for our ansisters mistakes.

You have just topped Fryowa in the ignorance category. You are the leader in the clubhouse...just waiting for Fryowa's next post. The absolutely dumbest comment I've personally ever seen on this board and that's saying something. The pressure you have put on Fryowa is intense...it's just got to be extremely difficult to take this even one step further. You sir, are a true ignoramus.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

You are sure talented at multi replying.

We may not get to dictate intent but you can't dictate how its heard. Insulting may keep women away but not some of here.

Had a black person tell me something I hadnt thought about. Among whites its getting more and more OK to call md's, PhD's and so on by their first name. He explained why it's very important in some black communities to yse the title as a show of respect for how far civil rights have come. You can be a dick and no that and just discount it as being soft or you can show respect out of courtesy.

The comments made though are on a much bigger plain likely spoken by someone from a 99% white county in nw Iowa.

If I EVER called a doctor by his/her first name, no matter the color, my Dad would have thrown me some holy hell. And I will never forget the lesson he taught me about giving up a seat on a bus, train, Disney transport, etc., to ANY female: I don't care if she's purple, mean, ugly, whatever. you ALWAYS give your seat to a woman if there is no place for her to sit.

So...in Montreal a year and a half ago, a Muslim woman gets on our train. I realized there were no other seats, so I got up, smiled at her and gestured to the seat I had occupied, next to my wife. I got THE dirtiest looks from people of all colors and stripes, male and female. My wife said later, "I'm really proud of you. And I can't believe I actually have to say that over a seat on a train".

Civility/common courtesy isn't dead yet...but it certainly seems to be on life support the last decade or so...

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

If I EVER called a doctor by his/her first name, no matter the color, my Dad would have thrown me some holy hell. And I will never forget the lesson he taught me about giving up a seat on a bus, train, Disney transport, etc., to ANY female: I don't care if she's purple, mean, ugly, whatever. you ALWAYS give your seat to a woman if there is no place for her to sit.

So...in Montreal a year and a half ago, a Muslim woman gets on our train. I realized there were no other seats, so I got up, smiled at her and gestured to the seat I had occupied, next to my wife. I got THE dirtiest looks from people of all colors and stripes, male and female. My wife said later, "I'm really proud of you. And I can't believe I actually have to say that over a seat on a train".

Civility/common courtesy isn't dead yet...but it certainly seems to be on life support the last decade or so...

You sir...are a true gentlemen. It's not dead...we just need parents to teach their children well.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

so you think pimpin aint easy too?

NOW you've done it! (For the record, I absolutely LOVE this song. It won a well-deserved Oscar, as well)

 

[hawkeyebob62]

You sir...are a true gentlemen. It's not dead...we just need parents to teach their children well.

I try to be a gentleman. Would that I could live up to the example my father set. But--and @okeefe4prez will understand this--he and my Mom were NW grads, so it's tough for me to live up to that!

 

[Adam]

You sir...are a true gentlemen. It's not dead...we just need parents to teach their children well.

That would require children to be born into stable, responsible households. Unfortunately that seems to be less and less these days.

I frequently encounter the larger umbrella debate that this topic resides in. Has humanity actually reached its peak? It's hard to say as humanity doesn't seem to have ever been all that decent to begin with.

 

[InGoodCo]

I hope you don't think I'm blasting you. I just don't really see eye to eye with your opinion. I don't necessarily think you're 100% wrong. Just a little extreme towards one side. I will say tho, if someone is going to be on the extreme end of this topic, at least you're on the right end. Way better than extreme the other way. I'll also say if I ever say something on here that someone twists as racist, I probably won't have a good reaction either.

I don't think you are doing anything dude, except maybe picking the wrong side of this argument w/ a dude who's clearly unstable and off his rocker. Who's being extreme here?

Since this started in this very thread

Fryowa has said this to me.

Go F yourself
called me a "cunty little social justice warrior"
told me I needed to find a job
told me I am not a victim multiple times
called me a " weak little type who'd pay money to go watch a comedian and have the ignorance (or just plain stupidity, I don't know) to get offended.
denser than he thought
an illiterate fucking tool
said that I was likely going to accuse him of being a pedophile or Anti-Semite.
said I was like Alex Jones and Shaun King all rolled into one.

meanwhile, this was over me calling him a racist for this comment.

"He should go where players can go do the cash-money-hoes thing. I get that he’s a decent lineman but we all know he’s not going to graduate from Iowa nor will he play football his entire career here. And let’s face it, pimpin’ ain’t easy, guys. It’s better to go where it is."

That's it, that's all I did, I said, dude, that comment is out of line. Yet, he's got plenty people who are liking his comments and are right in line with his thinking.

That's crazy IMO in today's society. There are a lot of crazy people out there, it's exposing to me that there are so many people in this line of thought.

 

[HawkGold]

If I EVER called a doctor by his/her first name, no matter the color, my Dad would have thrown me some holy hell. And I will never forget the lesson he taught me about giving up a seat on a bus, train, Disney transport, etc., to ANY female: I don't care if she's purple, mean, ugly, whatever. you ALWAYS give your seat to a woman if there is no place for her to sit.

So...in Montreal a year and a half ago, a Muslim woman gets on our train. I realized there were no other seats, so I got up, smiled at her and gestured to the seat I had occupied, next to my wife. I got THE dirtiest looks from people of all colors and stripes, male and female. My wife said later, "I'm really proud of you. And I can't believe I actually have to say that over a seat on a train".

Civility/common courtesy isn't dead yet...but it certainly seems to be on life support the last decade or so...

I really don't understand the courtesy thing. It is confusing, particularly in other cultures. I guess that unless the woman is very pregnant (not possibly fat) or seemingly in physical distress, best not to. What I oft do is just get up w/o saying anything or implying anything. I'd rather stand on a train anyway unless it's a long trip.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

What he said was embarrassing. He's going to get called out regardless of intention. My voting record is pretty damn conservative.

Im not defending the Times. But you should read what she said in context. Read it in light of being a minority female working in a white mans world where Me Too really does happen. Just talk to my white wife. Even yesterday she was being harassed in a store.
Whats ironic in context is the potentially season damaging suspensions are pretty much due to what some might call good old boy red neck fun. Not because of what was stereotyped in Fry's post.

Give me a break. She tweeted things like "White people have stopped breeding. You'll all go extinct soon. That was my plan all along." She posted a little devil emoji after it.

Or this gem "oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men."

Or: "Dumb*** f****** white people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants."

It doesn't matter what the context is. Those are racist sentiments no matter what the person who is saying them's race is.

If your argument is that racism committed by white people is worse, I can get behind that because of the power dynamic in society. But that doesn't make what she did not racist.

 

[HawkGold]

The difference I think is that Williamson and Norton did what they did as columnists and Norton did have Neo Nazi ties. The story goes that the Jeong wrote personal tweets as a result of cyber bullying. None of us really have any idea. I never said racism by whites is worse. Whether her actions are fireable I have no idea. Most of us have said something we've regretted and sometimes have been called out. What the other two did was in my book fireable.

 

[thedukeofearl]

If I EVER called a doctor by his/her first name, no matter the color, my Dad would have thrown me some holy hell. And I will never forget the lesson he taught me about giving up a seat on a bus, train, Disney transport, etc., to ANY female: I don't care if she's purple, mean, ugly, whatever. you ALWAYS give your seat to a woman if there is no place for her to sit.

So...in Montreal a year and a half ago, a Muslim woman gets on our train. I realized there were no other seats, so I got up, smiled at her and gestured to the seat I had occupied, next to my wife. I got THE dirtiest looks from people of all colors and stripes, male and female. My wife said later, "I'm really proud of you. And I can't believe I actually have to say that over a seat on a train".

Civility/common courtesy isn't dead yet...but it certainly seems to be on life support the last decade or so...

Alright, that was very good of you, and the way things should be done. My daughter was in the 3rd grade when 9/11 happened. There was a Muslim boy in her class. The other children were giving him dirty looks. She sat by him for the rest of the day and the others stopped what they were doing.....

I was proud of her.....

I also do Not believe Fry was Intending to be racist when he posted. It could be interpreted as a racist comment or not.....

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I really don't understand the courtesy thing. It is confusing, particularly in other cultures. I guess that unless the woman is very pregnant (not possibly fat) or seemingly in physical distress, best not to. What I oft do is just get up w/o saying anything or implying anything. I'd rather stand on a train anyway unless it's a long trip.

I just couldn't understand why people would get mad because I gave up a seat to a Muslim female. WTF? If she had been East Asian, Middle Eastern, Indo-Pakistani-Himalayan, Andean, Black, Hispanic, Hawaiian, Inuit, Aleut, Euro, whatever, I would have given up my seat. It's what I was taught by my father, and NOT doing so, even after his death, would have me looking over my shoulder waiting for his gentle-but-firm admonishment.

 

[PCHawk]

You have just topped Fryowa in the ignorance category. You are the leader in the clubhouse...just waiting for Fryowa's next post. The absolutely dumbest comment I've personally ever seen on this board and that's saying something. The pressure you have put on Fryowa is intense...it's just got to be extremely difficult to take this even one step further. You sir, are a true ignoramus.

So saying the world has to be careful not to overcorrect is stupid?

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Alright, my daughter was in the 3rd grade when 9/11 happened. There was a Muslim boy in her class. The other children were giving him dirty looks. She sat by him for the rest of the day and the others stopped what they were doing.....

I was proud of her.....

I also do Not believe Fry was Intending to be racist when he posted. It could be interpreted as a racist comment or not.....

Those other kids "learned" that behavior, unfortunately.

After the US embassy in Iran was attacked and the hostages were taken in 1979, restaurants in Chicago put out blanket signs saying, "No Iranians allowed!" IMHO, anyone ignorant enough to behave that way probably serves crappy food, anyway.

 

[InGoodCo]

So saying the world has to be careful not to overcorrect is stupid?

I don't think so FWIW. I think the world's gone bonkers with calling everything racist, or sexism or assault. Over correcting is out of hand. Not everything is racist. I still feel like things can be racist tho. Like, can you imagine if Fryowa said what he said to JA in person? Would he? Not a chance. Would he say it to a group of strangers standing in a room over a beer? Probably not. I would hope not, maybe he would. But I can't imagine it. That statement about an African American in any setting would make the record player scratch and stop playing music. Someone called it racist, I agreed and then Fry started a shit storm that he now promises he won't respond to....which is hilarious, if I said something racist I would probably not want to respond or have a thread keep going either. He knows he's wrong, but he's dug in this far and he's not a big enough person to say, "ya know what, what I said wasn't fair and was probably a little out of line to say about a young man on a public forum" - but he won't - he'll keep the ruse by calling me names and telling me I'm the bad guy. That's classic crazy.

 

[PCHawk]

You have just topped Fryowa in the ignorance category. You are the leader in the clubhouse...just waiting for Fryowa's next post. The absolutely dumbest comment I've personally ever seen on this board and that's saying something. The pressure you have put on Fryowa is intense...it's just got to be extremely difficult to take this even one step further. You sir, are a true ignoramus.

I would seriously like some more insight on your opinion here? Is it stupid because you think there is no way it can happen? Is it stupid because you think it should happen? Is it stupid because it's just not pc to mention? I seriously am interested to know why it's stupid.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't think so FWIW. I think the world's gone bonkers with calling everything racist, or sexism or assault. Over correcting is out of hand. Not everything is racist. I still feel like things can be racist tho. Like, can you imagine if Fryowa said what he said to JA in person? Would he? Not a chance. Would he say it to a group of strangers standing in a room over a beer? Probably not. I would hope not, maybe he would. But I can't imagine it. That statement about an African American in any setting would make the record player scratch and stop playing music. Someone called it racist, I agreed and then Fry started a shit storm that he now promises he won't respond to....which is hilarious, if I said something racist I would probably not want to respond or have a thread keep going either. He knows he's wrong, but he's dug in this far and he's not a big enough person to say, "ya know what, what I said wasn't fair and was probably a little out of line to say about a young man on a public forum" - but he won't - he'll keep the ruse by calling me names and telling me I'm the bad guy. That's classic crazy.

Fair enough. The responses you are getting are probably mostly from people like me who think overly pc and overcorrection is a big issue that is going to cause major problems in the not so distant future. I'm a little sensitive towards it. Like I said earlier tho, overly pc is still better than actual racism.

 

[HawkGold]

I would seriously like some more insight on your opinion here? Is it stupid because you think there is no way it can happen? Is it stupid because you think it should happen? Is it stupid because it's just not pc to mention? I seriously am interested to know why it's stupid.

This part of it:: People just need to use common sense and treat others like they want to be treated (that goes for all races) and quite trying so hard to overcorrect to make up for our ansisters mistakes.

is what will get you in trouble with minorities. For many, it isn't over and frankly though improved it isn't. By your words your implying being hurt or concerned by it if you were a minority is lacking common sense or stupid. Your words whether intended or not is insinuating you are superior and by being white (I really don't know), you have superior rights whether you want to recognize that yourself.

Go back to the football player stopped at gunpoint. If the suspects were white he wouldn't have a gun pointed at him unless he fit the description in other ways. You by being white have higher rights than this player did. I can probably find some video of a local officer who accidentally shot and killed a 16 year old trying to get into his own home when he forgot his key. Total accident. Total discrimination. Totally dead.

 

[PCHawk]

This part of it:: People just need to use common sense and treat others like they want to be treated (that goes for all races) and quite trying so hard to overcorrect to make up for our ansisters mistakes.

is what will get you in trouble with minorities. For many, it isn't over and frankly though improved it isn't. By your words your implying being hurt or concerned by it if you were a minority is lacking common sense or stupid. Your words whether intended or not is insinuating you are superior and by being white (I really don't know), you have superior rights whether you want to recognize that yourself.

Go back to the football player stopped at gunpoint. If the suspects were white he wouldn't have a gun pointed at him unless he fit the description in other ways. You by being white have higher rights than this player did. I can probably find some video of a local officer who accidentally shot and killed a 16 year old trying to get into his own home when he forgot his key. Total accident. Total discrimination. Totally dead.

Ok good point on the ansisters comment. I was thinking specifically about people who bring up slavery like we still need to make up for it. But there is no way for you to know I was being specific about one thing so it came off like I was saying that was the only thing. My bad.