Miller: Beathard's Go All In

[AHawk1]

I applaud Ole boy Beathard for what he did. If that was my kid I would have no problem if the kid didn't play, that's a coaches decision, but for the coach to say publicly week after week, that he's going to play and then never give him a fair shot, wouldn't sit well with me. I think he finally had enough, and figured two people can play this game and shoved it right back at Ferentz on a public stage.

 

[seepig]

I agree I think he knows he's going and yes I think this is an official I'm gonzo after the bowl game. It's unfortunate because he came here believing he had a shot to win games for this team. And if a miserable 7-5 with maybe the weakest schedule in the Big 10 isn't enough of a statement to say this isn't working then I don't know what is. We were a couple plays away from being 5-7 this year. IF CJ talked without SID approval then he knows he's gone because if he stays he NEVER sees another down at Kinnick because KF will be a total A** to the kid. We can see that KF's coaching staff changes have NOT improved the situation. Even though we can afford it Bary Garta doesn't want to go to the boosters and say he made a mistake giving Kirk that ridiculous contract. The Fran experiment is looking weak and the Ferentz 3.0 or whatever you want to call it is a failure.....not a good seat to be sitting in if you are Barta. Eventually the powder keg explodes.

 

[JonDMiller]

Jon, let me ask you about this from your article:

"Beathard said in the item that he and Jake have been even thus far during bowl prep. If that is the case, if they are truly even right now, I go with the guy who will be there two more years and has a skill set unlike any other quarterback in the Ferentz era."


If things are equal in the bowl prep, why wouldn't you take the guy who appears to know the offense better, who makes better checks, and is the safer bet? Just because of the other guys possible projected ceiling?

Because if you take that guy you are suggesting, the other guy is gone...and again if they are even, I am going to jump start the guy who has more time on his clock.

What would Saban do? Meyer? Dantonio? My guess is 16 would be their starter.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

The losses this year aren't on JR at all, they are on the coaching staff. The biggest issue with the team wasn't QB, it was and always has been the running game this year. The lack of of a RB who could punish the opposition from over pursuit just killed the offense. I think what the coaches refused to do, that they could have done is go all 2004 with CJ at the QB position. I thought this was obvious to see with the Purdue game, and that the only way to be successful during the month of November (our 5 hate games that month) was to give CJ the starting spot, and let him go all Drew Tate. CJ has the ability to go Drew Tate with the offense and JR does not.

It isn't a knock against JR. I think you give JR a good running game, and I would totally get why a coach would want him in as a game manager, the team might be better overall with him doing that. Yet what JR can't do is what CJ can do slinging it, and I think CJ hits Powell on a long bomb against Nebby, CJ finds a wide open KMM and hits him.

The thing that sucks is KF and the offense has done this in the past, so it really is something they were capable of......he was just unwilling this year.

Dean, certainly, the coaches are guilty of some really bad game plans and concepts, this season. But off the top of my head, I can think of 1 very real instance where JR cost us the win. Against ISU, during Iowa's final drive on third down, JR missed #87 breaking wide open inside the 15 yard line that would have been a touchdown. Instead, JR double-clutched in #87's direction, panicked, then threw a very bad and incomplete dump off pass to a completely covered receiver. The result was a tying FG by Iowa instead of putting Iowa up by 4. This allowed ISU to only need a FG to win, which we know is exactly what happened.

 

[PCHawk]

Brought us back against Ball State? The only reason we needed to be brought back was inability at the QB position through 3.9 quarters of play. Scoring two touchdowns against a weak team in 4 quarters of play is absolutely nothing to keep in the back of your mind as a positive thought. Wow.

I might have to delete that post. The last thing I want is people thinking I actually think that way. All I was saying is the coach thinks that way. It's embarrassing.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Because if you take that guy you are suggesting, the other guy is gone...and again if they are even, I am going to jump start the guy who has more time on his clock.

What would Saban do? Meyer? Dantonio? My guess is 16 would be their starter.

What would Hayden do?

 

[deanvogs]

Dean, certainly, the coaches are guilty of some really bad game plans and concepts, this season. But off the top of my head, I can think of 1 very real instance where JR cost us the win. Against ISU, during Iowa's final drive on third down, JR missed #87 breaking wide open inside the 15 yard line that would have been a touchdown. Instead, JR double-clutched in #87's direction, panicked, then threw a very bad and incomplete dump off pass to a completely covered receiver. The result was a tying FG by Iowa instead of putting Iowa up by 4. This allowed ISU to only need a FG to win, which we know is exactly what happened.

I agree with what you are saying, and I could raise you in saying that JR missed enough wide open receivers in the Nebby game to lose that one as well. You could point to a QB in almost every loss and point out mistake he made that lead to that loss. I'm just saying that will happen to every QB, they will all make mistake to cost you points, but overall I don't feel the 7-5 season should be laid at JR's feet. The coaches didn't game plan well enough to give the team the best chance of winning is why we struggled this year.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I agree with what you are saying, and I could raise you in saying that JR missed enough wide open receivers in the Nebby game to lose that one as well. You could point to a QB in almost every loss and point out mistake he made that lead to that loss. I'm just saying that will happen to every QB, they will all make mistake to cost you points, but overall I don't feel the 7-5 season should be laid at JR's feet. The coaches didn't game plan well enough to give the team the best chance of winning is why we struggled this year.

Got it, and I agree. I have been lamenting the rb position since 2013. I'll say this also, had kfootball chosen to go with more wide open game plans to help mask the deficiency and absurdity of a 2 fullback running scheme, he would have needed to turn to CJ. kfootball simply wanted JR and that's that. The rest be damned.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

What would Hayden do?

Hayden would go for the win

Kirk would try to prevent the loss (or so he believes)

This is why JHF will always be > KFz

 

[Eda]

KF said the competition was open after the PITT game but a media member that was in practice that following week, reported that JR took ALL 1st team snaps. How is that even remotely "open"? That's where I knew it was lip service from KF and nothing more. The ONLY reason we got Stanzi in 08' is because O'Keefe lobbied for it in private and he and KF had been working together long enough, KF listened. Nobody here to lobby for the right choice now, so we get JR.

You mean the week leading up to the Purdue game? The game that CJB started/played the whole game? I'll have to see a link of this media memeber reporting that JR took all the snaps leading up to that game.

 

[Eda]

JR also lead Iowa to a deficit that required a two touchdown comeback in the last 5 minutes of the game. Keep in mind that BSU was in a prevent defense the last 5 minutes and up by 2 scores. No great shakes by JR. Glad he got it done, but he should have been able to prevent that situation in the first place.

Interesting take. So we'll also not place any blame on the rest of the offense or kicking game. So after participating in this thread I've noticed we are placing all the blame on JR for all the losses, but also not getting credit for the wins (because he "put us into a bad position" during the win). Got it.

 

[LASBUR]

I don't think anyone can say with any knowledge that CJB is the better QB. I do think its fair to say he has more upside. In my opinion the mistake was made early in the year. Was hardly fair to throw him in the last couple games of the year and expect him to save the season. But the Bowl game is like a second chance. I hope KF takes it, but Im also hoping to win the powerball

 

[herkish]

Interesting take. So we'll also not place any blame on the rest of the offense or kicking game. So after participating in this thread I've noticed we are placing all the blame on JR for all the losses, but also not getting credit for the wins (because he "put us into a bad position" during the win). Got it.

A bounty of insight again.
What we're pointing out is that JR should be replaced because we've seen the option in CJ and he is appreciably better. Other issues on the field remain to be improved upon but we have no means of knowing what other players are behind them as we've not seen them. You confuse the issue of wanting to improve in a general sense with improvements that can be made specifically/immediately and that have been proven on the field.

 

[DJL]

A bounty of insight again.
What we're pointing out is that JR should be replaced because we've seen the option in CJ and he is appreciably better. Other issues on the field remain to be improved upon but we have no means of knowing what other players are behind them as we've not seen them. You confuse the issue of wanting to improve in a general sense with improvements that can be made specifically/immediately and that have been proven on the field.

At this point he is just being difficult. A lot of us believe CJ is better, or at the very least we could have gone 7-5 with him and he has more upside. You cannot deny that he has more physical ability! And he will be here longer. So if you are going to be mediocre, at least play the guy that has some hope of pulling you out of mediocrity.

On a side note, I get tired of hearing about Jake's knowledge of the offense and his checks at the line. 95% of the time when he changes the play, most people know where it's going. It doesn't matter how well you know the offense if you can't hit open guys down the field. And if the offense is so complicated that our play makers can't get on the field, then simplify it. I swear the program just lacks common sense.

 

[PCHawk]

It's so unfortunate that there were so many dropped passes in the first half of the Purdue game. If not for those, CJ would be so unbelievably far ahead of Rudock in any measurable way. Because of those, people always point to that one stretch as proof that CJ isn't necessarily better.

 

[DJL]

It's so unfortunate that there were so many dropped passes in the first half of the Purdue game. If not for those, CJ would be so unbelievably far ahead of Rudock in any measurable way. Because of those, people always point to that one stretch as proof that CJ isn't necessarily better.

So true. But the second half he did what he needed to do to pull away. The 2nd half of the Pitt game, he provided the spark to win the game. I would have let him go until he stopped winning and then evaluated the situation.

 

[tubahawk]

I compare this situation to the Stanzi/Christensen era. While JR is much better than Christensen was, Christensen had to play his way out of the position before KF would make a move. So JR really hasn't done that so I don't expect a change. But, much like the Stanzi/Christensen time, some guys just have that "it" factor that seems to lift the team around them. Stanzi had it. I get the same feeling about CJ. Just one of those guys that with a little playing time and experience, could be an outstanding QB and bring the rest of the team with him.

I agree there are similarities between these two situations. One big difference was Stanzi never went to the local newspaper about getting a fair shake in the QB compition. However, as another poster mentioned, Stanzi had an advocate in Ken O'Keefe. How do you think the 2009 season would have turned out if KOK hadn't been able to talk KF into starting Stanzi?

Is there anyone within the program that can "challenge" KF to reconsider his choices? I highly doubt Greg Davis has the influence O'Keefe had with Ferentz and thus CJ doesn't feel like he would otherwise get a shot unless he dropped a hint publicly.

I'm not saying I agree with CJ's methods, but on the other hand I'm not sure he has much to lose. Stay quiet and try to work against a stacked deck or speak up and risk alienating your coach. Both options suck and likely end up with the same result, riding pine in 2015.

I'd love to know how the other players feel about the CJ vs. Rudock debacle.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Interesting take. So we'll also not place any blame on the rest of the offense or kicking game. So after participating in this thread I've noticed we are placing all the blame on JR for all the losses, but also not getting credit for the wins (because he "put us into a bad position" during the win). Got it.

Eda, you took a specific comment and made it into a generalization. That is your fault. I will give you an "atta-boy" for your use of a straw man argument.

 

[DBAHawkFan]

Part of the reason why the running game couldn't get started is that the defenses had no fear of JR throwing the ball over 10 yards. The games he seemed like he was FORCED to, he happened to have his best games.

When he was check down JR, and the pressure got on to throw a deeper ball, he got into trouble. So defenses stacked the box to try and get Iowa into 3rd and long. And they would blitz knowing Jake would be quick to release the ball to Bullock or a TE going for a 3 yard out.

There are plenty of issues with the scheme, but our QB's inability to get the ball down the field made it worse.

CJ would toss the ball all over. Sometimes it'd lead to a mistake, but it made the defense respect the offense a little more.

 

[Eda]

A bounty of insight again.
What we're pointing out is that JR should be replaced because we've seen the option in CJ and he is appreciably better. Other issues on the field remain to be improved upon but we have no means of knowing what other players are behind them as we've not seen them. You confuse the issue of wanting to improve in a general sense with improvements that can be made specifically/immediately and that have been proven on the field.

My my point is simple. JR and CJB only play QB. It doesn't matter who plays that spot if the other players around him (including defense and special teams) are lacking. I've also mentioned before that the defense wasn't good enough this year to be put into spots due to poor QB play, and that's likely the reason KirFer sent with the safer choice.