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MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Ok. Let's break this down even farther. The current population of the US in 2022 is 332,403,650 people.

If my math is correct, 1,000,000 deaths accounts for .30% of the population in a 2 year period. The population is at an all time high. There were 329,500,000 people in 2020.

Now I ask you, COVID or non-COVID, isn't it expected to expect at least 1-2% total deaths in a population in a 1 or 2 year period?

These stats are quoted from 2020 by the CDC.

350,000 COVID deaths (3rd). So after all the vaccines since 2020, we increased our deaths by 650,000 since end of 2020. We see them still pushing boosters and now there are no masks mandates but deaths are apparently worse than before. Something doesn't make sense. Election year.
 
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HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
Yep.

Comorbidity isn't in his vocab. He has no clue what it means or how it applies to data sets.
Your arrogance is breath taking. I don’t understand co-morbidity? Really? You really need to grow up, Fry. Yeah, OK, this is just a game. Right now you are spending a lot of time on defense. Hmm.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
I would say that the collateral damage from the shutdowns both economically and socially were not worth it. Not going to be a popular statement to some on this board but that is my opinion. I will have to compare the states that were more "open" to those that were much more "locked down". I suspect the numbers are similar.

Locked down states tended to have higher minority populations and those have lower income/diets, so it isn't necessarily that easy to compare.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Your arrogance is breath taking. I don’t understand co-morbidity? Really? You really need to grow up, Fry. Yeah, OK, this is just a game. Right now you are spending a lot of time on defense. Hmm.
Facts are hard for you. I don’t know what else to say.

Fat people and fat smokers are by far and away, overwhelmingly, undisput the demographic under 65 who died from this thing. It’s very slightly more deadly than influenza in healthy adults and children with no comorbidities.

The other demo is elderly. Their increased risk doesn’t outweigh the negatives of lockdowns and shut downs. Old people have had their opportunities for fruitful lives and experiences. Robbing youth of those experiences and killing the economy is not a means justified by the end. I’m sorry you think it is. Humans are like any other species…you have to get while the getting is good because at some point you’re going to get old, weak, and slow the herd down. And yes, this applies to me as well—which is why I want to live my life now.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Your arrogance is breath taking. I don’t understand co-morbidity? Really? You really need to grow up, Fry. Yeah, OK, this is just a game. Right now you are spending a lot of time on defense. Hmm.
And yes, this is just a game. You come to an anonymous online forum dedicated to kids you don’t know playing games with a ball on a field…with the intent of arguing with a bunch of middle aged men doing the same thing. If you can’t see the hilarity in that then I don’t know what I can do to help you.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
The main issue is people like huck still think if everyone would have just shut down their lives covid would have gone away. That and he still thinks deaths "might" have a link to obesity.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Facts are hard for you. I don’t know what else to say.

Fat people and fat smokers are by far and away, overwhelmingly, undisput the demographic under 65 who died from this thing. It’s very slightly more deadly than influenza in healthy adults and children with no comorbidities.

The other demo is elderly. Their increased risk doesn’t outweigh the negatives of lockdowns and shut downs. Old people have had their opportunities for fruitful lives and experiences. Robbing youth of those experiences and killing the economy is not a means justified by the end. I’m sorry you think it is. Humans are like any other species…you have to get while the getting is good because at some point you’re going to get old, weak, and slow the herd down. And yes, this applies to me as well—which is why I want to live my life now.

I don't expect my 12 yr old dog to be able to jump up in the car or bed anymore. He just can't. He wants to and I can tell he's gauging the attempt, but he decides it prob isn't the best idea. It's not fair to me to expect him to be the same ole dog and now I have to help and support him more. It's a hard thing to accept, but it is what it is.
 
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MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
The main issue is people like huck still think if everyone would have just shut down their lives covid would have gone away. That and he still thinks deaths "might" have a link to obesity.

I just don't understand people who thought this thing was or could have been wrangled. It was never going to be controlled and herd immunity was and is our best chance. The vaccinations have not proven to last more than a couple months, but may cut down on the severity. But, I ain't loading up on a foreign substance every other month. Just not doing it. Not with the horror stories of problems certain fairly young people have had with some weird heart disease symptoms now. I got the two recommended and that was it.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
And yes, this is just a game. You come to an anonymous online forum dedicated to kids you don’t know playing games with a ball on a field…with the intent of arguing with a bunch of middle aged men doing the same thing. If you can’t see the hilarity in that then I don’t know what I can do to help you.
Don’t need help. I think I just said this is a game.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
Facts are hard for you. I don’t know what else to say.

Fat people and fat smokers are by far and away, overwhelmingly, undisput the demographic under 65 who died from this thing. It’s very slightly more deadly than influenza in healthy adults and children with no comorbidities.

The other demo is elderly. Their increased risk doesn’t outweigh the negatives of lockdowns and shut downs. Old people have had their opportunities for fruitful lives and experiences. Robbing youth of those experiences and killing the economy is not a means justified by the end. I’m sorry you think it is. Humans are like any other species…you have to get while the getting is good because at some point you’re going to get old, weak, and slow the herd down. And yes, this applies to me as well—which is why I want to live my life now.
You seem to struggle with the difference between fact and opinion. You should evaluate more closely what you say. There is nothing funnier than a younger person explaining experiences to an older person who, in fact, has already lived through that same stuff more than once. That is something you will understand down the road.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
BTW. I spent 40 years working with youngsters. They are indeed adaptable. They will be fine. So will the economy, as always.
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
I would say that the collateral damage from the shutdowns both economically and socially were not worth it. Not going to be a popular statement to some on this board but that is my opinion. I will have to compare the states that were more "open" to those that were much more "locked down". I suspect the numbers are similar.
It will take a generation to fully research the effects of shutting down economically and socially. And judging from the early statistics on suicides, drug overdoses, small businesses permanently closed and young children falling behind in school it wont be pretty.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
It will take a generation to fully research the effects of shutting down economically and socially. And judging from the early statistics on suicides, drug overdoses, small businesses permanently closed and young children falling behind in school it wont be pretty.

Yep.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Neither Here nor There

Merely a Graphic of the 1,000,000 Covid Deaths

Which perhaps are Under and Over reported


Scroll down if you wish

Cheers

:cool:

You know how fucked up this is and the reporting?

So, 300,000 people perished in the year prior to the vaccinations. So, after the vaccinations are distributed, 700,000 people perished. In the article, the writer blames all these deaths on all the people who never got vaccinated.....................ah............Ok. Vaccination rate among 18-64 yr olds was/is like 75-80%, it's up like to 93-95% 65 year old and higher age. So, even though most Americans did end up getting the vaccine, we still had more deaths than the year prior when nobody had the vaccine?? krist!

I guess they can spin it the way they want! It's such illogical thinking, I can't understand how people think they can sell that shit. It's like, use your common sense and break it down.
 
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racerhawk

Well-Known Member
The whole thing is a tragedy.

What should have been done:

Shut down air travel from China and then other places.

We need incentives for healthy lifestyles. Take out obesity, obesity-related disease, and high age and there wasn't much risk.

This wasn't like Black Death that was going to end the world as we knew it (excepting measures).

In this type of disease, natural immunity shuts it down faster than anything. Omicron is much less deadly and behaved like a typical variant.

We lost a lot in the pandemic including freedom of speech. We lost a lot of small businesses.

Growing up on a hog farm, the last thing we wanted to do was try and vaccinate the whole herd for an unusual disease. We lost a lot of common sense during this. Btw, I'm not anti mask at all.

I'll start by being transparent. I work in health care and currently am employed by one of the top health systems in the US. I listen to daily safety and epidemiology updates on a system wide call five days a week... now going on for a couple of years. So, I hear a lot of leading edge info and current trends.

I have ZERO interest in debating with people based upon their opinions about what is effective and not effective in terms of covid. It is true that medical comorbidities (such as obesity) increase risk for mortality with covid.

Having said that, VACCINES are VERY effective in limiting death. People are still dying in our ICUs, but almost all of them are unvaccinated. Just being factual here.

I do agree that covid, and our responses, have had tremendous effects on the mental well being of our entire population, and it will be affecting us for years to come.

The problem with our discourse on this issue is that (like many issues in politics), we've lost the ability to take perspective, and hold two items in our head that may be different... and both may be true.

For instance, Covid has been terrible and killed a million people. That's not normal, and it's not expected. It has been devastating for communities, families, and health care workers. Imagine being an ICU nurse and having to put 4 patients in body bags on your shift, without allowing families in to say goodbye. These things happened. Also, families are now rageful to healthcare workers because they have apparently been watching TV and don't trust us. It's shameful.

On the other side, covid has been terrible for mental health and addiction. Some years ago, we lost around 40,000 Americans per year due to drug addiction/overdoses (most opiates). We are now over 100K dead per year. A huge increase. It's terrible. Also, our psych units are always full and suicide rates are up. It's really terrible.

I have a suggestion: listen to academics and public health experts (and not Facebook University or Faux News). Also, allow mental space for several things to be true at one time (Covid IS terrible, is still going to kill people, and yet the effects of shutdowns have been debilitating as well). They are both true.

In short, have some compassion, get vaccinated, and listen to the experts. :)
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
I'll start by being transparent. I work in health care and currently am employed by one of the top health systems in the US. I listen to daily safety and epidemiology updates on a system wide call five days a week... now going on for a couple of years. So, I hear a lot of leading edge info and current trends.

I have ZERO interest in debating with people based upon their opinions about what is effective and not effective in terms of covid. It is true that medical comorbidities (such as obesity) increase risk for mortality with covid.

Having said that, VACCINES are VERY effective in limiting death. People are still dying in our ICUs, but almost all of them are unvaccinated. Just being factual here.

I do agree that covid, and our responses, have had tremendous effects on the mental well being of our entire population, and it will be affecting us for years to come.

The problem with our discourse on this issue is that (like many issues in politics), we've lost the ability to take perspective, and hold two items in our head that may be different... and both may be true.

For instance, Covid has been terrible and killed a million people. That's not normal, and it's not expected. It has been devastating for communities, families, and health care workers. Imagine being an ICU nurse and having to put 4 patients in body bags on your shift, without allowing families in to say goodbye. These things happened. Also, families are now rageful to healthcare workers because they have apparently been watching TV and don't trust us. It's shameful.

On the other side, covid has been terrible for mental health and addiction. Some years ago, we lost around 40,000 Americans per year due to drug addiction/overdoses (most opiates). We are now over 100K dead per year. A huge increase. It's terrible. Also, our psych units are always full and suicide rates are up. It's really terrible.

I have a suggestion: listen to academics and public health experts (and not Facebook University or Faux News). Also, allow mental space for several things to be true at one time (Covid IS terrible, is still going to kill people, and yet the effects of shutdowns have been debilitating as well). They are both true.

In short, have some compassion, get vaccinated, and listen to the experts. :)

A very objective post. I appreciate that. I am sincerely asking this so I can better understand what is going on. Can you explain my post above your post? Maybe I am not reading or grasping something correctly.

How do those numbers work, especially how do the deaths double after over half the population gets vaccinated? One would think the numbers would be astronomical the year when nobody was vaccinated. I sincerely and honestly invite your thoughts or input on this since you have first hand experience.
 

Glass1/2fullguy

Well-Known Member
I'll start by being transparent. I work in health care and currently am employed by one of the top health systems in the US. I listen to daily safety and epidemiology updates on a system wide call five days a week... now going on for a couple of years. So, I hear a lot of leading edge info and current trends.

I have ZERO interest in debating with people based upon their opinions about what is effective and not effective in terms of covid. It is true that medical comorbidities (such as obesity) increase risk for mortality with covid.

Having said that, VACCINES are VERY effective in limiting death. People are still dying in our ICUs, but almost all of them are unvaccinated. Just being factual here.

I do agree that covid, and our responses, have had tremendous effects on the mental well being of our entire population, and it will be affecting us for years to come.

The problem with our discourse on this issue is that (like many issues in politics), we've lost the ability to take perspective, and hold two items in our head that may be different... and both may be true.

For instance, Covid has been terrible and killed a million people. That's not normal, and it's not expected. It has been devastating for communities, families, and health care workers. Imagine being an ICU nurse and having to put 4 patients in body bags on your shift, without allowing families in to say goodbye. These things happened. Also, families are now rageful to healthcare workers because they have apparently been watching TV and don't trust us. It's shameful.

On the other side, covid has been terrible for mental health and addiction. Some years ago, we lost around 40,000 Americans per year due to drug addiction/overdoses (most opiates). We are now over 100K dead per year. A huge increase. It's terrible. Also, our psych units are always full and suicide rates are up. It's really terrible.

I have a suggestion: listen to academics and public health experts (and not Facebook University or Faux News). Also, allow mental space for several things to be true at one time (Covid IS terrible, is still going to kill people, and yet the effects of shutdowns have been debilitating as well). They are both true.

In short, have some compassion, get vaccinated, and listen to the experts. :)
I like your post until the last sentence. It shouldn’t be “get vaccinated”, it should be, “if you’re at risk get vaccinated”. Dealing w/ covid on a personal level simply takes common sense. Western medicine has its place but is not the answer for being healthy and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.
 

racerhawk

Well-Known Member
I like your post until the last sentence. It shouldn’t be “get vaccinated”, it should be, “if you’re at risk get vaccinated”. Dealing w/ covid on a personal level simply takes common sense. Western medicine has its place but is not the answer for being healthy and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.
I won't argue with anyone on this topic Getting vaccinated protects others as well as yourself. It's the correct thing to do. Full stop.
 

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