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- Thread starter HuckFinn
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guffus
Well-Known Member
I am willing to go with the flow regarding face masks and shut downs, but I think we will be debating forever whether the shutdowns and face masks were worth it. I think in the early going, the estimates were that 2 to 3 percent of those infected would die from COVID.
So if that was true, if we would have done nothing, and 100% of the country was infected with the original variant, would 10M have died instead of the 1M that actually died?
So knowing that now, was all the shutdowns worth it?
So if that was true, if we would have done nothing, and 100% of the country was infected with the original variant, would 10M have died instead of the 1M that actually died?
So knowing that now, was all the shutdowns worth it?
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HawkGold
Well-Known Member
The whole thing is a tragedy.
What should have been done:
Shut down air travel from China and then other places.
We need incentives for healthy lifestyles. Take out obesity, obesity-related disease, and high age and there wasn't much risk.
This wasn't like Black Death that was going to end the world as we knew it (excepting measures).
In this type of disease, natural immunity shuts it down faster than anything. Omicron is much less deadly and behaved like a typical variant.
We lost a lot in the pandemic including freedom of speech. We lost a lot of small businesses.
Growing up on a hog farm, the last thing we wanted to do was try and vaccinate the whole herd for an unusual disease. We lost a lot of common sense during this. Btw, I'm not anti mask at all.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Shut down air travel from China and then other places.
We need incentives for healthy lifestyles. Take out obesity, obesity-related disease, and high age and there wasn't much risk.
In this type of disease, natural immunity shuts it down faster than anything.
We lost a lot in the pandemic including freedom of speech. We lost a lot of small businesses.
We lost a lot of common sense during this. Btw, I'm not anti-mask at all.
There you have it
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
A trillion dead. Wow. It is all because of Orange Man and DeathSantis in Florida. It is not safe yet.
Begs the question, how does the Dem Politburo class spin this to their NPC followers? Do we get a "hey guys, we have this all under control" message or do we get a "you people need to be governed harder by daddy" message in advance of the elections?
Begs the question, how does the Dem Politburo class spin this to their NPC followers? Do we get a "hey guys, we have this all under control" message or do we get a "you people need to be governed harder by daddy" message in advance of the elections?
Fryowa
Administrator
Correction...
950,000 Americans died because they were fat, smoked, and had self-induced diabetes and caught a slightly more severe flu that they would have survived had they not been fat, smoked, and given themselves diabetes.
Fryowa
Administrator
Both.
guffus
Well-Known Member
OK, I can work on losing some weight I guess, but I am not sure how to prevent getting old.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Bull shit. You keep preaching this crap. Yes. Factors like the one’s you mention May impact Covid severity. But you have no fucking idea how many died because of one or more of them. The Wizard of Oz strikes again.
And, the fact remains, 1,000,000 moms, dads, children, grandma’s and grandpa’s died from Covid. Your response to tragic circumstances is disgusting.
Fryowa
Administrator
Like literally everything else, risk skyrockets in relation to age. Getting old is a bitch and it's unavoidable. Nothing anyone can do about it unless we shut down society and the economy every time there's a new bug, and that's not a good thing. I know when I'm 70 I don't want 20 and 30 year olds losing their jobs and access to work because of something that's only dangerous to me, and I sure as hell don't want kids missing out on school and social interactions etc because of it.
My son's mom is the director of an assisted living facility, and she said every single resident told her they didn't care about the virus or the risk, they just wanted out of jail and to be able to hug family members while they could (and this was before the vaccine). She had a lot of residents start hitting the sauce hard and a couple had to be removed because of it.
Look I know it sounds callous, but we are no different than any other species in that if we live long enough we get older and weaker, and the herd ain't slowing down for anyone. Myself included.
Eat reasonably, don't do substances, get your heart rate up a few times a week, and that's literally all you can do.
Fryowa
Administrator
Search for covid comorbidity (even the CDC if that's the ponly ything you trust), then extrapolate the comorbidity risk factors vs healthy individuals against the number "dead" from covid and you'll have your answer.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
There is the question if individuals actually died from COVID or with COVID. Two very different things. From my understanding the classification has not always been consistent and people who have perished from other diseases/conditions who also had COVID were documented as dying from COVID.
Fryowa
Administrator
Mostly older people who had the opportunity to lead full, fruitful lives, and the rest overwhelmingly were people who smoked and ate garbage to the point of becoming 300lb diabetics with no exercise.
And you're right, it is indeed unbelievably tragic. Tragic that those folks could have avoided dying by eating a banana instead of a McDouble and a 72 oz. Coke 4 times a week washed down with Marlboros.
Fryowa
Administrator
Yep.
Comorbidity isn't in his vocab. He has no clue what it means or how it applies to data sets.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I would say that the collateral damage from the shutdowns both economically and socially were not worth it. Not going to be a popular statement to some on this board but that is my opinion. I will have to compare the states that were more "open" to those that were much more "locked down". I suspect the numbers are similar.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I should have read down farther before I commented on the above posts.
Fryowa
Administrator
You know what's really tragic?
Keeping children out of school during their most formative and mentally vulnerable years, shutting down their sports, recreation, ability to go run free at parks, and all of their other extra curricular stuff to protect people who got the chance to live 75 fruitful years on this planet. Telling them they can't be near their friends or hug their aunts and uncles because it might make grandma sick (grandma who was in a hermitically sealed jailhouse anyway). What's really tragic is seeing these kids scared to death because adults are telling them there's a plague spreading that's going to kill everyone and that the only way to keep them from getting it or spreading it is to wear a face mask, stay well out of reach of everyone you know, and that they can't do any of the things they normally would be able to, when in reality what those kids aren't being told is that it's mainly the elderly, fat people, and smokers who are dying from this thing. I'm sure you've forgotten that when this thing started no one knew when it was going to die down and sure as hell the kids didn't. But apparently mental health of kids is just a dumb topic that you don't care about in return...
Life is more than staying alive. You of all people who has reached the sunset of it should know that better than anyone. You got to live your life hugging your friends and family, and going to school, and playing sports, and walking through a park or shopping mall whenever you felt like it. You got to get married in a church where people could talk and celebrate and be near each other and family could hug. You never had to teach over some ridiculous computer connection and got to be in front of students to see what was really clicking in their minds. You got to be a witness to your kids' births with all of your family around and without a piece of paper rubber banded to your ears.
Don't tell the rest of the young healthy world they can't do any of that because you're older than the hills or because a whole bunch of people made the choice to live like shit. You had the chance to live your life, and if and when I get to that age it'll be the same for me.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Yep, we have increased longevity now. People need to understand that with that, elderly are going to have complications and be at risks for these kinds of things. Just the way it is. Our bodies were never meant to live 100 years. May explain why many rates for conditions like alzheimer's or dementia increase. Because we are living longer. Of course, our brains are going to deteriorate and lose white matter over time.
We also have a very unhealthy population which is weird we are living longer. But, we take meds for chronic conditions and mask the diseases/conditions instead of taking care of the underlying problems which can be done for most Type II diabetes, some heart conditions, etc.. We just pop pills because it it easier, levels off our lab tests and drug companies and some CEO or politicians like us to.
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MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Now that I think about it, our boys were 13 and 14 thru this thing, pretty much didn't have a normal two years in middle school. We also continued our youth sports as normal as we could. We went to football and baseball games, filled the gym for basketball games with masks on. Now that I think about it, I can't recall one kid, parent of any of the kids or even heard of any grandparents of any of the kids I know die from COVID thru it all. Not one.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I can't wait until uihawk82 chimes in..............................................................3............2................1.
