ssckelley
Well-Known Member
What’s the problem with it? On the football side some still discuss Hayden Fry as well, is that wrong? The topic of this forum is Hawkeye Basketball, I don’t see any limits to what time period we can talk about.
Loved the latest Miller/Deace Podcast evaluating the Iowa program
- Thread starter HaydenHawk56
- Start date
What’s the problem with it? On the football side some still discuss Hayden Fry as well, is that wrong? The topic of this forum is Hawkeye Basketball, I don’t see any limits to what time period we can talk about.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I was going to point out this as well. That data is gonna looked bad because the last 18 games (now 20) are always B1G games. I do think it would be fair to point out the the first half conference record vs the second half conference record tho.
83Hawk
Banned
There was a time when many people on this board wanted Keno as Iowa’s coach. Probably the same people that now want Brian as the next head football coach.
I think I've seen that stat before somewhere proving that "always collapsing" is a myth. It's ridiculous how inaccurate that tweet was tho. I wonder how intentional it was to leave out a year and completely change the numbers in another year. I didn't even check to see if the other years were correct.
I said when Fran was hired if Fran could duplicate Davis's accomplishments he would be earning his pay. What Fran has done in 9 years is respectable. He came to Iowa as a coach with a reputation of turning programs around and Iowa was a program needing turned around. Fran filled a need. He's been as advertised thus far in that he got Iowa back to the NCAA tourney in year 4 and his offenses have largely been pretty fun to watch. But the big question most seemed to ask when he was hired was could he recruit in the Big Ten? In year 9 that answer is "kind of". He's had a handful of 4-star players come here but the elite difference-makers he needs to take Iowa to the next level have eluded him, particularly at the PG position. So I guess I'd say Fran has acquitted himself well and Iowa could and has certainly done worse, but until he can bring in true difference-makers on the recruiting trail (even from the transfer ranks if necessary) things are what they are.
I just looked at that tweet again. The first year was the NIT run. He had us at 11-2 to start (all non conference games so big whoop) then has us losing 7 of 10. Without looking at the other years to be sure, he either had post season games in or he is for sure wrong in '15 too because we only lost 6 conference games that year. So assuming he added post season, we won 4 NIT games and 1 Big 10 tournament game, yet he has them losing 7 of 10. What an idiot. And someone on here said "hard to argue those numbers" lol.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Chad Leistikow said that Frans teams have a better record in the 2nd half of B1G play than the first half. So while I’m not a Fran guy, it is a myth that his teams somehow collapse at the end of the year.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Quote from the podcast that I loved. "Iowa is the Cincinnatti Bengals of college basketball." Made me chuckle because it's true. Bengals make the playoffs every year but never win a game. So old Marvin Lewis keeps his job and does just barely enough to pacify his boss. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
D
DDThompson
Guest
Agree. Fran is not at Davis' level. Not even an argument.
Does he even reach Alford's post-season level? I don't think so.
In what stat? The fact that his teams in those years has a 34.7% win percentage to finish those seasons? Yes, most non-conf schedules will make a record look better than it should be (except for schools that play a hard schedule like the blue blood programs) but coaches that have a 35% win percentage on the back end usually get fired pretty quickly...not get giant buyouts/extensions.
The conversation wasn't about whether or not he should be fired. It was about whether or not his teams collapsed at the end of the year. Using an 11-2 non conference record to "prove" he is worse later in the year than at the beginning is a joke. I'm surprised there are people out there that fall for it.
Hey Dean, I was thinking about this post more and I was wondering, what would need to happen this year for you to think they were close to equal? If he just makes the tourney, it will be 4 out of 6 years which is the same percentage Davis made the tourney in his last 9 years. I doubt that would be enough since Davis had better seeds. But what if he got a 5 seed and made the sweet 16? Then he would have the same number of sweet 16s with 4 more years to add to it. He still would need a 4 and 6 seed to be exactly the same, but you have to agree with me to some point that Davis had a HUGE advantage with the prestige of the program at the time. If they had exactly equal resumes, how could you not agree that Fran actually did a better job?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Not really gonna talk "what if's" on this one. Like you said the seeds Mr. Davis got for the most part have been much better, and honestly to just discredit what Mr. Davis did his first 3 years isn't totally fair. While I won't hold Fran's first 3 years against him, I think Mr. Davis deserves credit for doing what he did with the talent he had, as Raveling certainly wasn't maximizing the talent he was bringing in.
I do agree about totally taking all credit. And I wasnt talking "what ifs". I was talking "what would have to happens". Not sure why you wouldn't want to answer that just for fun.
Only 2 of those years were charting 14 or less games to start the year....the others were 19-25 games worth so that's more than just the weak non-conf schedule we normally have and that you were pointing out. You are using one of the years,11-2, to shape your argument which I'd be surprised if people would fall for that (they won't). Regardless, in 4 of those five seasons the teams had collapses on the back end of the schedule. Most realistic people aren't going to ask for the 86% win percentage of the 11-2 stat you isolated but a 30% back end win percentage isn't good enough and it shouldn't be accepted. That's the point.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Can we just agree that Fran's teams have typically fell apart at some point during a number of his years at Iowa? Not always at the end, but a number of them have.
At the moment, things seem to be in better shape coming into the final stretch this year. But, we shall see.
At the moment, things seem to be in better shape coming into the final stretch this year. But, we shall see.
Some people will not admit that.....but you are correct
