earlkoppelman
Well-Known Member
Ole!
Loved the latest Miller/Deace Podcast evaluating the Iowa program
- Thread starter HaydenHawk56
- Start date
Lol and they were also skewed by a couple really bad finishes.
I will not agree on that. Fran's teams have almost always started slow and got better as the year went on. Last year was an exception because they were terrible all year. 2 years they tanked. The other 5 years they started slow and got progressively better as the year went on.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
1st year - started Licklighter bad, showed signs of life as the year closed out, and ended with a win against #6 Purdue.
2nd year - started bad (where they left off the year before) and improved as the year went on to sneak into the NIT.
3rd year - started bad, then improved as the year went on to the point where they were playing great at the end of the year.
4th year, started pretty good, got really good by the midway point, then tanked at the end of the year.
5th year - started really bad (thought they were going to be horrible all year) improved as the year went on, then ended playing really good.
6th year - started bad, got really good by mid season, then tanked at the end.
7th year - started really bad, slowly got better as the year went on, then played their best ball at the end of the year, barely missing the tournament.
8th year - started really bad, then stayed really bad as the year went on, then finished really bad.
9th year - started good, stayed pretty much the same all year with perhaps a slight improvement, with the end yet to be determined.
Seems to me that Fran's biggest weakness has been starting a season strong. He's only started strong twice in 9 years. As far as finishing strong. He's done that 5 times in 8 years (9th not in yet). One of the 3 he didn't was a complete lost year.
2nd year - started bad (where they left off the year before) and improved as the year went on to sneak into the NIT.
3rd year - started bad, then improved as the year went on to the point where they were playing great at the end of the year.
4th year, started pretty good, got really good by the midway point, then tanked at the end of the year.
5th year - started really bad (thought they were going to be horrible all year) improved as the year went on, then ended playing really good.
6th year - started bad, got really good by mid season, then tanked at the end.
7th year - started really bad, slowly got better as the year went on, then played their best ball at the end of the year, barely missing the tournament.
8th year - started really bad, then stayed really bad as the year went on, then finished really bad.
9th year - started good, stayed pretty much the same all year with perhaps a slight improvement, with the end yet to be determined.
Seems to me that Fran's biggest weakness has been starting a season strong. He's only started strong twice in 9 years. As far as finishing strong. He's done that 5 times in 8 years (9th not in yet). One of the 3 he didn't was a complete lost year.
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. The Twilight Zone.
So which years would you say the team collapsed?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The collapse Frans 4th year really shouldn’t be held against Fran. I mean his son was diagnosed with and battled cancer. I think every parent is gonna see his work suffer during that time.
Not to mention his 6th year had way more to do with the schedule and those players not having the stones to close out close games than it had to do with collapsing. 3 of their late losses came to really good teams.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
That late stretch also included Disassembly Hall, the SAFO game against Wisconsin, and the immortal Charles Buggs of Minnesota hitting five or six threes against us. That Ekey dude from Illinois tipping one in at the buzzer on senior night. But absolutely, Fran was repeatedly outcoached, and understandably so.
I remember the Illinois game them drilling a 3 because white went for a steal. Also Gesell intentionally fouling with under 30 seconds left to let them have the last shot. That late season had a ton of bad luck in it. Some of it self inflicted.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
This lays it out. Again, collapses I did not say have to happen at the end of the year (they can happen at the beginning and in the middle). So, to answer your question, I would consider collapse years to easily be years 4,5,6. The start of 7 and year 8 are honorable mention. This would be over half of Fran's years with teams falling apart. I will give him a pass on the first 3 years with the rebuilding job as they showed progressive improvement in each of those years digging out of the gutter.
Year 9 (this year) looks to be showing more mental toughness (and could be Fran's most successful year), but still incomplete until the season is over to fully analyze it.
So you're now saying you can collapse at the very beginning of the year? That's a new one. By that definition, I agree with you, virtually every one of Fran's teams have collapsed. He's notorious for those damn beginning of the season collapses.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I was a huge Tom Davis fan. So there is no Fran bias associated with this post. Below are the overall conference records and winning percentages for Tom and Fran in years 3 through 8 at Iowa.
Fran = 56-52 (51.9%)
Tom = 49-59 (45.4%)
Tom was 4-14 in Year 4 and 5-13 in Year 8. These were his only seasons with a losing conference record at Iowa.
Fran was 4-14 in Year 8. This is his only season with a losing conference record (excluding the first 2 when he was 4-14 and 8-10 respectively...and didn't have Raveling recruits on the roster).
Note - Tom's and Fran's Year 8 are eerily similar (and bad)...had no idea until starting this bit of research.
Tom then went 51-35 (59.3%) in his remaining 5 years at Iowa...far better winning percentage than the preceding 6 year period. If Fran is able to replicate this he will average a 12-8 conference record over the remainder of this season and the next 4.
Did people want Tom gone at the time? Do people want Fran gone if he does the same?
Fran = 56-52 (51.9%)
Tom = 49-59 (45.4%)
Tom was 4-14 in Year 4 and 5-13 in Year 8. These were his only seasons with a losing conference record at Iowa.
Fran was 4-14 in Year 8. This is his only season with a losing conference record (excluding the first 2 when he was 4-14 and 8-10 respectively...and didn't have Raveling recruits on the roster).
Note - Tom's and Fran's Year 8 are eerily similar (and bad)...had no idea until starting this bit of research.
Tom then went 51-35 (59.3%) in his remaining 5 years at Iowa...far better winning percentage than the preceding 6 year period. If Fran is able to replicate this he will average a 12-8 conference record over the remainder of this season and the next 4.
Did people want Tom gone at the time? Do people want Fran gone if he does the same?
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Maybe collapse at the beginning of the year is not quite the right word to use, but I suppose it is possible for a team at the beginning of the year to fold/fall apart for whatever reason. Another could be the team is still trying to find itself and has not gelled yet.
Perhaps, a better way to phrase it, is Fran's teams have typically had long stretches were they have really struggled, at various points in the year, pretty much year to year. And, they were really exposed in years 4,5,6, and 8. And, to add injury to insult, those long struggles/collapses happened with Fran's break though teams and his better players (non-withstanding this year). Fran's teams have typically not been consistent from start, middle, to finish.
Fran lost a 1st team conference player 4 years in a row. Before that he was rebuilding the program. It makes perfect sense that his teams started bad and improved as the year went on. Which is normally what has happened under him.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Not in 4,5,6, and 8....almost half of the time....and with his established years as coach. Perhaps this year is going to be different, but we shall see.
karras
Well-Known Member
This only works if you're willing to say the same thing about Hayden Fry who was diagnosed with cancer in 1998. But nobody on any Hawkeye site is willing to do that. It's criminal.
Hillcrest1981
Well-Known Member
Mr. Davis and Fran both excelled in letting our best in-state talent leave. With the exception of Wieskamp under Fran and maybe Dean Oliver for Mr. Davis our recruiting has been average under both coaches.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Fran kept Woody and Gesell, got Jok and Uthoff (for 3 years anyway). He also got Connor, Wieskamp, and Patrick. That is keeping five 4* players and Jok and Uthoff, and he lost Carton.
